S. 8472 vs Empire

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SirNitram
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Post by SirNitram »

TheDarkling wrote:SirNitram:

1) I will take you word for it - I was thinking about the Borg doing 0.75c but that depends on when they started moving and their rate of acceleration.

2)Hmm the energy is enough to cause plasma to escape but not enough for the entire planet thus energy transfer isnt uniform, is that what you are saying?
Any ideas on what the process is then?
I can't hazard a proper guess as to the mechanism, sadly. I'm quite sorry. I will continue to try and find someone else's calc's and compare them to mine.

As for the Borg, .75c? They weren't doing anything close to that!
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Post by Master of Ossus »

Actually, relative to SOMETHING in the galaxy they probably were doing .75c. Relative to the 8472 ships, on the other hand, they clearly were barely moving at all (for sci-fi standards).
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Post by TheDarkling »

We cant see the 8472 ships in the shot the only thing they are moving relative to is the planet.

If they couldnt get to top speed in 13 seconds either their acceleration is bad or they are too dumb to live and simply sat their in orbit until the planet began to explode.
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Post by SirNitram »

TheDarkling wrote:We cant see the 8472 ships in the shot the only thing they are moving relative to is the planet.

If they couldnt get to top speed in 13 seconds either their acceleration is bad or they are too dumb to live and simply sat their in orbit until the planet began to explode.
I'd object to top speed, but things in Trek really do seem to have top speed...

Where's the .75c for cruising speed of Cubes?
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Post by TheDarkling »

Well 0.75c is the top safe speed before time dilation becomes a problem (TM I believe so it isnt strictly canon) - I suppose it could be that Borg go slower than starfleet ships.

Another question would be why they dont jump to warp but that would actually be intelligent.
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Post by Master of Ossus »

TheDarkling wrote:We cant see the 8472 ships in the shot the only thing they are moving relative to is the planet.

If they couldnt get to top speed in 13 seconds either their acceleration is bad or they are too dumb to live and simply sat their in orbit until the planet began to explode.
Watch the show, their acceleration is bad, AND Borg reaction times are very slow.
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Post by TheDarkling »

Thats not correct thei reaction times should be great - they can adapt ultra fast to freq shifts in shields.

Prehaps their reaction is just slow when picking a course of action.

Im not sure where their acceleration has been show cased - possibly Descent part 2 .
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Post by SirNitram »

TheDarkling wrote:Well 0.75c is the top safe speed before time dilation becomes a problem (TM I believe so it isnt strictly canon) - I suppose it could be that Borg go slower than starfleet ships.

Another question would be why they dont jump to warp but that would actually be intelligent.
You see, having seen Borg ships move many times, and seeing something which actually is scaled at a fraction of lightspeed, I must say No Sir, they do not move anywhere -near- .75c.
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Post by TheDarkling »

Mass Borg suicide it is then.

They arent the greatest minds of there time.
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Post by Master of Ossus »

But their proven reaction times are not great. Perhaps their ability to adapt their shields quickly (this is now speculative) is some automated system on their cubes because their abilities to choose courses of action seem VERY slow.

I guess you're right, I spoke too soon about their acceleration. :oops:

With acceleration, you can almost never prove that ships are accelerating at their maximum rates, but they do appear to be fairly slow according to ST:FC, in which lots of Federation ships are seen swarming around what appears to be a nearly stationary Borg cube. This could, however, be because the Borg was ignoring the Federation ships.
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Post by TheDarkling »

The best action would have to warp out that would take less than 13 seconds (it BOBW it takes <2 seconds) but for some reason they just sat there above a planet they knew was going to go Boom.
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Post by SirNitram »

TheDarkling wrote:The best action would have to warp out that would take less than 13 seconds (it BOBW it takes <2 seconds) but for some reason they just sat there above a planet they knew was going to go Boom.
For whatever reason, they didn't run fast enough. Borg threat recignition continues to ping at about Night Of The Living Dead...
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Post by Kazuaki Shimazaki »

TheDarkling wrote:Well 0.75c is the top safe speed before time dilation becomes a problem (TM I believe so it isnt strictly canon) - I suppose it could be that Borg go slower than starfleet ships.

Another question would be why they dont jump to warp but that would actually be intelligent.
IIRC, it was 0.25C they claimed, which is probably more reasonable in light of the Lorentz factor growing exponentially...
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Post by TheDarkling »

Just checked and your right, Im sure TOS went higher than that but thats TOS so....
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Post by Master of Ossus »

TheDarkling wrote:Just checked and your right, Im sure TOS went higher than that but thats TOS so....
I still cannot believe that quote. Someone must pay for this. Spock HAD TO HAVE EXISTED!
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Post by TheDarkling »

To hell with B&B he existed (actually he was in a TNG episode so existed either way).

I just found that max cruise velocity is 0.25 but speeds upto 0.75 are possible without modification - so whats full impulse?
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Post by Master of Ossus »

Why would there be a maximum velocity? Shouldn't it just be a measure of acceleration?

And relative to what?

And, yes, to hell with B&B.
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Post by SirNitram »

TheDarkling wrote:To hell with B&B he existed (actually he was in a TNG episode so existed either way).

I just found that max cruise velocity is 0.25 but speeds upto 0.75 are possible without modification - so whats full impulse?
I don't know.

If I scale against stationary objects in the background(Planets) it never goes above a few hundred m/s, except once the warp drives are engaged and they're zipping into the distance.
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Post by TheDarkling »

The collision didnt destroy the 8472 ship thus nanoprobes are the only weapon to have killed an 8472 ship Ref Prey.

We are also told they invaded with 1000's of ships and destroyed 100's of Borg worlds - they are looking meaner.
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Post by Cal Wright »

TheDarkling"]If they can scan - I doubt battleships can but if they bought in a special science vessel it may be able to.

Comscan reports an energy sheild protecting the sixth planet of the Hoth system.

Track them, they may come around for another pass.

Jamming? How could they be jamming, if they don't know...we're coming...

I get no readings are you sure?

No cities, but massive life form readings


It may be possible for them to recreate a blckhole but there must be something specific about it or any blackhole would do.

There MUST be something specific. Well, we don't have any evidence that it there is, so we we can't say the can't either.

In fact Voy's crew cant open one up only 7 of 9 can, implying that it takes some technical ability.

Or treknobabble. Just because 7 of 9 can do something other people can't, doesn't mean it's something techincal.

Any more info on the World Devastators black hole furnaces or any other Imp blackhole tech would be useful

Yeah, they kick ass. So do ISDs against Bio Ships. Anything else?

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Post by His Divine Shadow »

TheDarkling wrote:Well 0.75c is the top safe speed before time dilation becomes a problem (TM I believe so it isnt strictly canon) - I suppose it could be that Borg go slower than starfleet ships.

Another question would be why they dont jump to warp but that would actually be intelligent.
Thats .25c if anyone hasn't pointed it out yet.
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Post by TheDarkling »

His Divine Shadow: 0.25c is standard top speed but they can go to 0.75c.

DG_Cal_Wright: Combat sensors are tailored for just that.
We dont have any evidence there is? well then why isnt every singularity a gateway to 8472 land?
The singularity has special protocols Ref Prey.
Treknobabble = Something technical.
Well that last statement shows the level of your debating I guess.
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Post by Mr Bean »

Darkling!
I'm suprized at you, and you where doing so well

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Post by His Divine Shadow »

TheDarkling wrote:His Divine Shadow: 0.25c is standard top speed but they can go to 0.75c.
.25c AFAIK is that limit people talk about because of time dillation.
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Post by His Divine Shadow »

Limit was not a good word either, since it's not, but it's like a roadsign that says "this fast only",
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