Scimitar vs SW [SPOILERS FOR NEMESIS]

[Manji]

Just one single Scimitar-class Romulan ship vs the SW galaxy.

What's known about the Scimitar (highlight to read):

• Could fire both disruptors and torpedoes while cloaked
• Could have its shields raised while cloaked, presumably at full strength
• Had a "perfect" cloak (that's the word Laforge used to describe it) which was utterly undetectable - it approached to within a few hundred yards of the E-E and remained there while the E was at red alert, yet the crew of the E were totally unaware of its presence
• The cloak was not a singular one as seen on previous Romulan and Klingon ships, but had differing sections of coverage that could be raised and lowered independantly, rendering more or less of the ship invisible
• Absorbed:
  
  The E-E's entire torpedo loadout
  
  Multiple max-yield strafes from the E-Es phasers
  
  Assaults by two D'Deridex class Romulan Warbirds
  
  All of which served to reduce its shields only be 30% (leaving them at 70% strength)
• Totally destroyed a fully-shielded D'Deridex warbird with one broadside (of disruptors, no torps), blowing it completely in half.
• Reduced another D'Deridex to a drifting hulk with a single torpedo volley
• Beat the E-E to a pulp in short order - and was only toying with it at the time (Shizon ordered the E's shields dropped, not the ship destroyed)
• Survived being rammed by the Enterprise. The E also survived, but was massively damaged and left dead in the water (had to be towed away) with its auto-destruct, transporters, weapons etc disabled. On the other hand, the Scimitar had its engines still working, and its cloak was also coming back online, about the time it was destoyed.
• Had a main weapon which fits the planetkiller bracket - capable of wiping out all life on a planet with one shot. It did not physically destroy the planet - infrastructure was left intact. It worked by firing a beam of technobabble radiation that would enshroud and permeate a planet, ship, or whatever, and that would destroy all organic life in a few seconds - literally melting it.
• While the ship was itself destroyed (by data blowing up its power core from the inside), there is nothing to indicate that the PK weapon is lost tech, and everything to indicate that it is not - seperate examples of the weapon existed, there is no mention of the research that led to its development being destroyed/lost, etc.

[/color]

I'm wondering what this ship could do vs. the Empire or the Republic-era SW galaxy.

In spite of it's massive superiority over other trek ships, I still would doubt if it could go into a straight-up slugfest with a post-ICS SW vessel of comparable tonnage and win, but its style is not to go into a straight up slugfest anyway. Hiding behind its perfect cloak, firing out from behind it, firing instant-shot-death from cloak at any vessel or planet its captain so wishes... it's possible it could wreak tremendous destruction. Think of the trillions of people it would kill in one go if it fired the main weapon on Coruscant...

Discuss.

[Master of Ossus]

It's planet destroying capability would be interesting, but I see little else here that would be spectacular for SW. D'Derix and Sovereign class ships bounce off of ISDs, and so I do not see that as being particularly impressive. Nor is its ability to withstand weapons fire from ST. It's shields (by my generous calculations on the other thread) would be too weak to stop Acclamator class fire. It's cloaking technology would also be interesting, but if it fired then it would not be able to destroy an Acclamator without multiple broadsides, so I think that the Acclamator would be able to get at least two or three broadsides of its own in response, which would be enough to destroy the ship. I think that its PK ability is the only thing remarkable about the ship. It could not run the table like an ISD could in the ST universe.

[Stravo]

Christ, didn't they just make the Sovereign the most powerful ship in Trek in the LAST movie???? This mostrosity sounds a little contrived to me, Romulan ship building has never impressed me in the series and the D'Derex is overrated as it has had its ass handed to them by the Dominion AND Cardasians during the war and Bird of preys were considered a serious threat to the D'Derix in the epsiode where Picard surprises the Rommies with cloaked Klingon ships, they consider it an even match BoP and D'Derix.

So suddenly B&B trot out the Scimitar???? So where in the HELL do they get the tech and power for the Scimitar??? Perfect cloak my ass.... DAMN I hate them, I wish they would plummet into the final circle of hell and let some demons gnaw at their entrails....

I find their lack of creativity disturbing....

[Master of Ossus]

We all think that the Scimitar is contrived and ridiculously over-powered compared to the other ships in ST (it's like going to the Bismark from reed river-boats without anything in between). The fact is, though, that it IS canon (as soon as Nemesis comes out). I think it sucks, but we have to accept it. It is still no match for an ISD, except for its PK ability.

Damn you, Rick Berman. This is all your fault.

[Manji]

You know, that PK would make the perfect device for capturing enemy assets. Because it kills organic life, but leaves everything else intact...

Imagine this Scimitar running accross a Super Star Destroyer and firing on it... all crew dead, and the Romulans have an instant 11 mile War Prize.

Oh yeah, and you can capture top-line ships in prime condition with working, undamaged hyperdrives to examine. Despite the uberness of the Scimitar, it's still going to be dogged with one of the greater curses of a ST ship in the SW galaxy - speed, or the lack thereof. But with the ability to capture ships at will, and study them in prime condition, the Romulans should be able to reverse engineer hyperdrive fairly quickly.

Until they've figured out how to reverse-engineer it and fit it to their own ship, they can use some large captured freighter as a hyperdrive cradle for the Scimitar (kinda like what Obi-Wan's fighter had). Maybe put a cloaking device on the freighter as well.

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

Shields. Block. Radiation.

[Antediluvian]

You know, that PK would make the perfect device for capturing enemy assets. Because it kills organic life, but leaves everything else intact...

Imagine this Scimitar running accross a Super Star Destroyer and firing on it... all crew dead, and the Romulans have an instant 11 mile War Prize.

Oh yeah, and you can capture top-line ships in prime condition with working, undamaged hyperdrives to examine. Despite the uberness of the Scimitar, it's still going to be dogged with one of the greater curses of a ST ship in the SW galaxy - speed, or the lack thereof. But with the ability to capture ships at will, and study them in prime condition, the Romulans should be able to reverse engineer hyperdrive fairly quickly.

Until they've figured out how to reverse-engineer it and fit it to their own ship, they can use some large captured freighter as a hyperdrive cradle for the Scimitar (kinda like what Obi-Wan's fighter had). Maybe put a cloaking device on the freighter as well.

Can it really be claimed that this radiation weapon can even pierce SW ISD or SSD shielding?

Their shields do protect them from radiation.

And it seems like a big leap to say that because it's cloak is undetectable to ST sensors, that means it's automatically invisible to SW sensors as well.

I think the reverse-engineering hyperdrive quickly thing has been dealt with before.

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

Distruptors=long beams
Long beams=able to find ship firing
able to find ship firing=shooting it







Boom.

[Anarchist Bunny]

Who here read my trekkie attacks to come thread? I produced and shot down every single on of these attacks. The scimitar did not soak up that much damage, the E-E was firing blind and was able to score some shots but not every single one. Also It was the only planet sized weapon they had that was deployable. Thats why the Romulans were worried about the clone attack going after picard while instead of attacking Earth. If they had more they would send that one. The only other one of these weapons we saw was hand held sized with only room wide effectiveness. The weapon takes a while to charge, enough time for an ISD to fire the 1 or 2 shots needed to take it down. The only way it could work is if it's is hidden by the cloak(we the cloak is slowly coming back as it's charging) or if it is fired from large distances(we only seen it prepared to be fired at short distance). Also the federation didn't even know the radiation this weapon uses could exsist, much less deployed, and seeing how the Romulan/Reman-Human relations aren't very good(seeing how they wanted to kill everyone on earth(yes the romulan concel was killed by the reman had the entire romulan fleet and some romulan political assistance) it's not very likely they'll just give it to them, plus they have to understand how it works, how to make more, and how to outfit their ships with it. Even if they can do this, then they understand how to work everything and come up with the skeleton crew to use it(base 5000, 50000 for SSD, i think the average for a galaxy class is 1000 so 5 or 50 GCS worth of troops, not really that hard, but they do have to be trained). Doesn't the ISD's computers have programing to prevent exactly this. And there is no way in hell that they can outfit one of these on to an ISD seeing how they use completely different wiring types.

[TheDarkling]

I have a crazy insane idea - lets wait until we have seen the film (if we must) and then judge how affective things are.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

I agree.

Especially seeing as this well-known "script" is most likely a fake.

[Anarchist Bunny]

Pulled up my copy of the script.

The ships sweep around one another, maneuvering for position, firing constantly. The battlefield seems impossibly crowded as the four vessels evade and attack; as phaser and disruptor beams criss-cross space.
Then the Scimitar unleashes a devastating volley… all her forward disruptor banks fire at once--

As we can see that one line shows an an disclosed time of firing before the scimitar and the other ships before the fatal full disruptor blast that destroyed that warbird. Also.

Photon torpedoes immediately shoot from the Enterprise -- but pass harmlessly through the area where the Scimitar's shields were momentarily illuminated.

Right there, the proof the scimitar does not take the full photon torp load of the E-E(I know this is just one instance, If I find more I'll post them but alot of combat is just exchange fire and evade.

[Anarchist Bunny]

Yeah, the script never once mentions quantum torps

[Doomriser]

ROFL! If that POS can be damaged by the KT-level yields of Trek photon torpedoes, than it won't take _one_ shot from a SW ship. Considering that the E-E was able to find the Scimitar by firing all weapons in all directions, I'm sure an ISD would be able to do the same. Except the ISD would destroy it while doing so.

And BTW, isn't that Treknobabble radiation thing on the Scimitar a one-shot affair?

[Master of Ossus]

That's true about the quantum torpedoes. Maybe the ship isn't so good after all.

BTW, I took all of his claims at face value, I was VERY generous in my estimates of its strength (and torpedo strength, etc.) AND I didn't even bother to deduct for the fact that photon torpedoes and quantum torpedoes explode in all directions instead of focusing the blast, and the estimates I came up with STILL were not good enough to go up against ISD's and SW capital ships!

[Master of Ossus]

All B&B can do these days is come up with crappy superweapons to fight the Federation with. That and little swamp buggies.

[MagicHateBall]

Not to mention that, *if* this script is correct, it took the Scimitar *four minutes* to target a ship that's drifting.
I imagine it would take longer to target a maneuvering Star Destroyer and fire. Even if it did not, they'd still have to last four minutes under fire.

[Master of Ossus]

Four minutes..... That's pretty bad. An ISD could destroy the ship in one or two shots (at the most).

[Anarchist Bunny]

Even if it was still cloaked, the radiation may give it away allowing a spot for the turbolasers to shoot at for range finding, The ship opens up to fire making it a larger target, I think, won't know til we see it live. *sigh* I'll probly have to watch this piece of crap to keep up with debats. Although they might be able to get some attacks if the ISD doesn't know they are there or if it doesn't give away a radiation signiture when charging up. Still in the sight of the Empire vs. the Feds this takes no effect, for previously pointed out ideas.

[Antediluvian]

Even if it was still cloaked, the radiation may give it away allowing a spot for the turbolasers to shoot at for range finding, The ship opens up to fire making it a larger target, I think, won't know til we see it live. *sigh* I'll probly have to watch this piece of crap to keep up with debats. Although they might be able to get some attacks if the ISD doesn't know they are there or if it doesn't give away a radiation signiture when charging up. Still in the sight of the Empire vs. the Feds this takes no effect, for previously pointed out ideas.

You would think they (the Empire) could still detect it on crystal gravtraps, as it would still be emitting gravity, especially if it still uses the power source as the earlier Warbirds.

[Anarchist Bunny]

I know, not all ISD's have those though. I was just pointing out situations where this new sceme of the pro-trekkies would work. I predicted and shot down most of these claims a week or two ago.

[Master of Ossus]

Even if it was still cloaked, the radiation may give it away allowing a spot for the turbolasers to shoot at for range finding, The ship opens up to fire making it a larger target, I think, won't know til we see it live. *sigh* I'll probly have to watch this piece of crap to keep up with debats. Although they might be able to get some attacks if the ISD doesn't know they are there or if it doesn't give away a radiation signiture when charging up. Still in the sight of the Empire vs. the Feds this takes no effect, for previously pointed out ideas.

You would think they (the Empire) could still detect it on crystal gravtraps, as it would still be emitting gravity, especially if it still uses the power source as the earlier Warbirds.

Of course they could detect it! Those are just too expensive to outfit on standard ISDs, so the situation likely would not come up. Anything with mass has some gravity associated with it, so it could be detected by a gravity scan.

[Antediluvian]

Even if it was still cloaked, the radiation may give it away allowing a spot for the turbolasers to shoot at for range finding, The ship opens up to fire making it a larger target, I think, won't know til we see it live. *sigh* I'll probly have to watch this piece of crap to keep up with debats. Although they might be able to get some attacks if the ISD doesn't know they are there or if it doesn't give away a radiation signiture when charging up. Still in the sight of the Empire vs. the Feds this takes no effect, for previously pointed out ideas.

You would think they (the Empire) could still detect it on crystal gravtraps, as it would still be emitting gravity, especially if it still uses the power source as the earlier Warbirds.

Of course they could detect it! Those are just too expensive to outfit on standard ISDs, so the situation likely would not come up. Anything with mass has some gravity associated with it, so it could be detected by a gravity scan.

I threw that out because Manji was claiming the cloak was undetectable.

And yes they are expensive.

[Master of Ossus]

I'll accept all of Manji's assumptions for this thread because I can't disprove them until that piece of crap movie comes out. Plus, they won't help the Scimitar very much.

[LordShaithis]

The flesh-melting weapon is interesting, but depopulating an unshielded planet isn't that big of a deal for any spacefaring race. Enough biological/chemical weapons could do the trick, albeit not as efficiently. And the Scimitar's weapons and shields are still pathetically underpowered by SW standards.