Iraq in 1990 magically sent back in time to 1943

wautd · Post by **wautd** » 2004-12-22 04:47am

An evil omnipotent being visits Sadam in his cell and gives him a present (hey its almost christmas). When Sadam wakes up he find himself 15 years younger, he's back in one of his palaces and he finds out that his country is back at the state it was just before the first gulf war. However, everyting out of the iraqi border is the world as it was during 1943.
These changes happened overnight so the world is just as suprised to find out that suddenly an advanced nation spawned.

What happens? Will he choose a side? Will he take revenge?

discuss if you may

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2004-12-22 09:52am

for a brief shining peroid, Saddam's T-72's, Mirage's and Scuds beat the unholy shit out of the British and Americans until he runs out of spare parts. The Germans get their hands on schematics and whatnot, but they still eventually fall under the weight of American industrial capacity and the faceless slavic masses.

Gunhead · Post by **Gunhead** » 2004-12-22 03:06pm

Well, for thing there ain't gonna be Israel or Iran.
The future of the neighboring states as a whole looks bleak.

-Gunhead

Zor · Post by **Zor** » 2004-12-22 03:24pm

Gunhead wrote:Well, for thing there ain't gonna be Israel or Iran.
The future of the neighboring states as a whole looks bleak.

-Gunhead

Yeah, half the Cities will be turned to Irradiated Craters by the end of the War. On that note, did Iraq have ANY Industreal base towards weaponry manufacturing? I think they bought all their weapons discount from the Soviet Union.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2004-12-22 04:19pm

Zor wrote:
Gunhead wrote:Well, for thing there ain't gonna be Israel or Iran.
The future of the neighboring states as a whole looks bleak.

-Gunhead
Yeah, half the Cities will be turned to Irradiated Craters by the end of the War. On that note, did Iraq have ANY Industreal base towards weaponry manufacturing? I think they bought all their weapons discount from the Soviet Union.

And their air force from France with part of their tank and transportation core coming from China(Which was itself rebranded Soviet Goods)

Gunhead · Post by **Gunhead** » 2004-12-22 05:25pm

Well, I don't know about planes, to some extent yes they could produce parts. They did have the ability to manufacture parts for their conventional weapons tanks, rifles, artillery, shells and so on. With such advanced weapons compared to weaponry in -43, they could conquer the necessary reaources to build all sorts of stuff. T-55 is an advanced tank when compared to anything anyone had at the time.

-Gunhead

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2004-12-22 05:27pm

Zor wrote:
Gunhead wrote:Well, for thing there ain't gonna be Israel or Iran.
The future of the neighboring states as a whole looks bleak.

-Gunhead
Yeah, half the Cities will be turned to Irradiated Craters by the end of the War. On that note, did Iraq have ANY Industreal base towards weaponry manufacturing? I think they bought all their weapons discount from the Soviet Union.

no, the Iraqi Cities will be the ones that end up irradiated once their French fighter planes start breaking down.

Gunhead · Post by **Gunhead** » 2004-12-22 05:32pm

Could someone explain me how Iraqi planes not working is going to irradiate their towns?

-Gunhead

Sir Sirius · Post by **Sir Sirius** » 2004-12-22 05:35pm

Gunhead wrote:Could someone explain me how Iraqi planes not working is going to irradiate their towns?

-Gunhead

The US is gonna nuke Baghdad once they can get their bombers trought Iraqs air defenses.

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2004-12-22 05:36pm

Gunhead wrote:Could someone explain me how Iraqi planes not working is going to irradiate their towns?

-Gunhead

when the Iraqis run out of spare parts for their planes made in factories that don't exist yet, and are finally unable to mount sufficient air defense, the United States Army Air Corps mercilessly nukes the fuck out of the country.

Gunhead · Post by **Gunhead** » 2004-12-22 05:38pm

And their planes not working is somehow going to stop their SAMs from working? Nuclear bombs were kinda hard to come by in -43 anyway.

-Gunhead

wautd · Post by **wautd** » 2004-12-22 05:39pm

Col. Crackpot wrote:
Gunhead wrote:Could someone explain me how Iraqi planes not working is going to irradiate their towns?

-Gunhead
when the Iraqis run out of spare parts for their planes made in factories that don't exist yet, and are finally unable to mount sufficient air defense, the United States Army Air Corps mercilessly nukes the fuck out of the country.

they dont have nukes yet and a lot can happen in 2-3 years
Saddam otoh probably has the knowledge to build nukes (recources is another thing)

Gunhead · Post by **Gunhead** » 2004-12-22 05:41pm

In the OP it's said the country is in the state it was before Gulf I, they have their factories.

-Gunhead

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2004-12-22 05:42pm

wautd wrote:
Col. Crackpot wrote:
Gunhead wrote:Could someone explain me how Iraqi planes not working is going to irradiate their towns?

-Gunhead
when the Iraqis run out of spare parts for their planes made in factories that don't exist yet, and are finally unable to mount sufficient air defense, the United States Army Air Corps mercilessly nukes the fuck out of the country.
they dont have nukes yet and a lot can happen in 2-3 years
Saddam otoh probably has the knowledge to build nukes (recources is another thing)

no but they will by 1945. The Manhattan project is already underway by 1943. Also, presented with a new technologically advanced threat, the project would likeley be granted even more resources.

Imperial Overlord · Post by **Imperial Overlord** » 2004-12-22 05:47pm

It's the middle of WW2 and Saddam knows how that ends up. What's to stop him from cutting a deal?

Gunhead · Post by **Gunhead** » 2004-12-22 05:50pm

And if he don't want to deal, what's going to stop him from taking say the caucasus? Or the whole of middle east? Or selling tech to the Germans (that'd be crazy, but hey it's Saddam)

-Gunhead

Seggybop · Post by **Seggybop** » 2004-12-22 06:16pm

How is the US going to deliver a nuke to Saddam anyway? His Air Force should be able to intercept incoming B-29/36s easily, no?

Batman · Post by **Batman** » 2004-12-22 06:25pm

Seggybop wrote:How is the US going to deliver a nuke to Saddam anyway? His Air Force should be able to intercept incoming B-29/36s easily, no?

Saddam is going to run out of fighters and SAMs long before the US runs out of bombers.

Vendetta · Post by **Vendetta** » 2004-12-22 06:48pm

Col. Crackpot wrote:
wautd wrote:
Col. Crackpot wrote: when the Iraqis run out of spare parts for their planes made in factories that don't exist yet, and are finally unable to mount sufficient air defense, the United States Army Air Corps mercilessly nukes the fuck out of the country.
they dont have nukes yet and a lot can happen in 2-3 years
Saddam otoh probably has the knowledge to build nukes (recources is another thing)
no but they will by 1945. The Manhattan project is already underway by 1943. Also, presented with a new technologically advanced threat, the project would likeley be granted even more resources.

And B-29's are going to do how well against even Saddam's SAM and radar guided AA batteries?

Really, WWII aircraft would almost never get in range to deliver a nuclear weapon, and even if the bombers were common currency, the weapons themselves were not, they were difficult and expensive to build.

Actually, I see Saddam being courted by both sides as a potential ally, with advanced capabilities he could be a decisive factor in the war, being able to utterly rape one side or other's African campaign. The whole pot would go straight to hell when he died, of course, since he left no dynastic successor.

Vendetta · Post by **Vendetta** » 2004-12-22 07:01pm

Actually, now it's mentioned, I also see Saddam making sure he's on the winning team. After all, this is the modern Saddam, with all his knowledge of what happened. After all, what he was is a gangster and a thug, his priority would be to make sure he prospered..

I expect his priority would be to establish local dominance, especially over local oilfields, and to prevent the state of Israel from ever existing.

Big Phil · Post by **Big Phil** » 2004-12-22 07:29pm

You guys are all talking about tactics and strategy and who has the bigger and badder planes and tanks, but you're forgetting three very important things:

LOGISTICS
Iraq in 1990 could only manage to keep its forces in Kuwait supplied as long as they remained static. He had no capability to reinforce or resupply a moving force. How on earth is he going to get his T-72's resupplied as they make their way to Egypt? Is he going to magically develop a high quality supply train overnight?

POWER PROJECTION
How is he going to attack anybody other than his immediate neighbors? Iraq in 1990 had no navy to speak of, its airforce had no airlift capability, and his military couldn't be resupplied easily beyond his borders. The US, British, Japanese, Russian, and German militaries of this time all have highly developed logistical capabilities and the ability to project power beyond their borders. The US did it in multiple theaters at the same time.

MORALE
The morale of the 1990 Iraqi army was shit. Other than the Republican Guard Divisions, most of the troops were conscripts who would rather be elsewhere. Their training was shit, their leadership was shit, and their motivation was shit. Six adequate divisions (the 1990 Republican Guard) is not going to conquer a heavily militarized 1943 world.

Zor · Post by **Zor** » 2004-12-22 07:36pm

Vendetta wrote:
Col. Crackpot wrote:
wautd wrote: they dont have nukes yet and a lot can happen in 2-3 years
Saddam otoh probably has the knowledge to build nukes (recources is another thing)
no but they will by 1945. The Manhattan project is already underway by 1943. Also, presented with a new technologically advanced threat, the project would likeley be granted even more resources.
And B-29's are going to do how well against even Saddam's SAM and radar guided AA batteries?

Yes, but he is totaly incapable of replacing said AA Missles, Praticularly since i know what the Yanks were willing to the Japanese and their technology does not make their cities immune to fire or napalm.

Big Phil · Post by **Big Phil** » 2004-12-22 07:39pm

Does anybody know much about the strength of a T-72's armor? Could a WWII era HEAT or AP projectile penetrate the armor? Patton's, IS2's, and Tigers all carried very powerful rifled cannon in late WWII, and T-72 armor isn't anything special, like Chobham armor.

Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba · Post by **Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba** » 2004-12-22 08:00pm

Food for thought: Due to inflation, what seems like little money now = Big money then. Giving Iraq a big economic boost.

LordShaithis · Post by **LordShaithis** » 2004-12-22 09:30pm

Saddam browbeats the neighbors into kissing his ass, takes Palestine, and gets filthy rich selling tech to the Allies. (Why the fuck sell anything to the Germans? They lose!)