How did Horus die (WH40K)

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2004-11-15 10:46am

I know that the emperor killed him, but how did Horus meet his fate?

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-11-15 10:58am

Lord Revan wrote:I know that the emperor killed him, but how did Horus meet his fate?

What'd you mean? What was the cause of death?

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2004-11-15 11:03am

Stormbringer wrote:What was the cause of death?

Yes. That's what I mean.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-11-15 11:36am

Lord Revan wrote:
Stormbringer wrote:What was the cause of death?
Yes. That's what I mean.

Psyker magic mostly.

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2004-11-15 11:40am

Stormbringer wrote:Psyker magic mostly.

Could you be more specific

Petrosjko · Post by **Petrosjko** » 2004-11-15 11:53am

Courtesy of NecronLord from another thread.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-11-15 12:24pm

Lord Revan wrote:
Stormbringer wrote:Psyker magic mostly.
Could you be more specific

It's hard to be. The Emperor sent a big nasty spike of psyker energy at Horus; that's a big nasty wound but not necessarily mortal. The Emperor kills him for good but it's not said just how.

No doubt the withdrawl of Chao's favor hurt.

DocHorror · Post by **DocHorror** » 2004-11-15 01:03pm

Well technically the Emperor sent a bolt of sear psychic force at Horus, this had the effect of driving out the power of the Gods. Then he snuffed out Horus's soul.

Not sure how easy this is as souls in 40k seem to be quite resilient, so Im not sure if it could have been easy or diffiult for the Emperor to do.

Either way it left behind enough of a body for the Sons of Horus to recapture and for Fabius Bile to clone.

Bob the Gunslinger · Post by **Bob the Gunslinger** » 2004-11-16 04:44pm

This brings up another question of mine. So, what happens to a character's soul when he dies? Does it go to the Emperor? Is it consumed by the Emperor? Or is it merely consumed by the soul-eating monstrosities of the warp? Do the Servants of Chaos end up suffering for all eternity or do they get subsumed by bigger Chaos entities?

I remember that in Grey Knights, powerful psykers are able to grab a heretics soul and force it back into his broken body so that they might torture him to death again. Does this mean that the Emperor can ressurect his servants or put their souls into machine bodies when he ascends?

Post by **Kuja** » 2004-11-16 04:51pm

Bob the Gunslinger wrote:This brings up another question of mine. So, what happens to a character's soul when he dies? Does it go to the Emperor? Is it consumed by the Emperor? Or is it merely consumed by the soul-eating monstrosities of the warp? Do the Servants of Chaos end up suffering for all eternity or do they get subsumed by bigger Chaos entities?

The belief is that a loyal person's soul will go to the Emperor, but who knows. Chaos servants who fail in their duties have their souls consumed by the daemons and the gods, that is confirmed.

I remember that in Grey Knights, powerful psykers are able to grab a heretics soul and force it back into his broken body so that they might torture him to death again. Does this mean that the Emperor can ressurect his servants or put their souls into machine bodies when he ascends?

IIRC, that was just a bluff on Ligea's part. There wasn't really a psyker who could do that.

Imperial Overlord · Post by **Imperial Overlord** » 2004-11-16 04:53pm

It's tricky. Your soul is warpstuff so it floats in warp space. If it is closely attuned to a specific warp god, it will be attracted to and become part of it. It could be picked off by warp predators or become a strong independent entity in its own right. Psykers have more powerful souls because they directly interact with the warp. Eldar are sucked into Slaanesh unless they have protections, because of their close connections to it.

As for the Emperor, he is not yet a warp god. He is still died to his corpse in the Golden Throne. He did come into being as the merging of the souls of prehistoric shamans choosing to reincarnate into one being, so reincarnation is also a possibility.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2004-11-16 05:03pm

Bob the Gunslinger wrote:This brings up another question of mine. So, what happens to a character's soul when he dies? Does it go to the Emperor? Is it consumed by the Emperor? Or is it merely consumed by the soul-eating monstrosities of the warp? Do the Servants of Chaos end up suffering for all eternity or do they get subsumed by bigger Chaos entities?

I remember that in Grey Knights, powerful psykers are able to grab a heretics soul and force it back into his broken body so that they might torture him to death again. Does this mean that the Emperor can ressurect his servants or put their souls into machine bodies when he ascends?

In general, it gets eaten by demons. If it is exceptionally commited to the Emperor, it may become part of him, or even more interestingly, a raised into demon of the Emperor, such as St Sabbatt appears to have been.

Yes. Servants of chaos suffer for all time. Or get consumed. Or both.

And no, the Inquistor in Grey Knights was doing the bad cop routine. We've no reason to believe any of that was true.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-11-16 05:08pm

NecronLord wrote:In general, it gets eaten by demons. If it is exceptionally commited to the Emperor, it may become part of him, or even more interestingly, a raised into demon of the Emperor, such as St Sabbatt appears to have been.

Given that the Emperor was created in ancient times to prevent that very scenario, human souls falling prey to warp entities, I would have to disagree. With the Emperor weakened they might be, but I doubt that daemons are chowing down wholesale.

And Saint Sabbat wouldn't be precisely a daemon. Similar mechanism maybe, but angel would probably be a more proper term. That of course raises the question about the rest of the Imperial pantheon of Saints. It would be interesting to know whether any of them are lurking out there too.

Imperial Overlord · Post by **Imperial Overlord** » 2004-11-16 05:12pm

Daemon is the proper term. In WFRP there is a Greater Daemon of Law. Properly, she would a Daemon Prince (ascended mortal) which is a kind of Greater Daemon. And warp entities regularily chomp down on some human souls. What percentage they get is another issue.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2004-11-16 05:14pm

Stormbringer wrote:Given that the Emperor was created in ancient times to prevent that very scenario, human souls falling prey to warp entities, I would have to disagree. With the Emperor weakened they might be, but I doubt that daemons are chowing down wholesale.

Well so far we have:

Eldar saying that most humans get eaten, and the only other example of a human soul after death (other than Sabbatt) being the Navigator's mother in Eye of Terror (novel) being horribly tormented by the warp critters

And Saint Sabbat wouldn't be precisely a daemon. Similar mechanism maybe, but angel would probably be a more proper term. That of course raises the question about the rest of the Imperial pantheon of Saints. It would be interesting to know whether any of them are lurking out there too.

Yes. I've used that term before, but it complicates the terminology.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-11-16 07:25pm

NecronLord wrote:Well so far we have:

Eldar saying that most humans get eaten, and the only other example of a human soul after death (other than Sabbatt) being the Navigator's mother in Eye of Terror (novel) being horribly tormented by the warp critters

The Eldar might not be the best experts. Their chauvanism runs pretty damn deep. They'd be as like as not to conclude that out of their own expereince with loose souls and their hopes.

And the Warp might well get some human souls, particularly the mutant. The Navigators are also connected pretty closely to the Warp. And some of them are not particularly faithful.

And once again, this is what the Emperor was created to prevent. I find it hard to believe that he is totally ineffectual; now it could be because he's weakened to near impotence. But I would be suspicious of that.

NecronLord wrote:Yes. I've used that term before, but it complicates the terminology.

True, but daemon suggests a certain malevolence that Saint Sabbat doesn't have.

Imperial Overlord · Post by **Imperial Overlord** » 2004-11-16 07:35pm

The Eldar know a lot more about the warp than humans. The are aware they are more vulnerable than humans and certainly chauvanistic, but that doesn't make them wrong. The Black Library is and Eldar collection, which they allow a few favored humans (mostly Inquisitors) to use. Eldar expertise certainly trumps humans. I will grant that they could have been lying, but they are more likely to be right that humans.

As for the Emperor's purpose, well so what. This is 40K, nothing is working out like anyone planned.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2004-11-17 02:01am

I'm pretty sure his purpouse wasn't to provide a human afterlife as much as it was to ensure humanity survived to become a stable psycic race.

Imperial Overlord · Post by **Imperial Overlord** » 2004-11-17 04:00am

Our NecronLord is right. Human survival is the big deal.

DocHorror · Post by **DocHorror** » 2004-11-17 08:54am

and the only other example of a human soul after death

What about that guy in Xenos? He died in the service of Chaos, Eisenhorn and Rouke(? I think) used an astropathic choir to venture to the other side and talk to his soul. They then offered to snuff it out before the daemons found it.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2004-11-17 09:23am

DocHorror wrote:
and the only other example of a human soul after death
What about that guy in Xenos? He died in the service of Chaos, Eisenhorn and Rouke(? I think) used an astropathic choir to venture to the other side and talk to his soul. They then offered to snuff it out before the daemons found it.

Correction: the only other example of a human soul after death that springs to mind.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-11-17 10:38am

NecronLord wrote:I'm pretty sure his purpouse wasn't to provide a human afterlife as much as it was to ensure humanity survived to become a stable psycic race.

Actually, according to the creation fluff, the old shamans that died creating the Emperor were worried that humans, particularly their own sort, were disappearing into the warp and not returning. That was one of the prime reasons that they created the Emperor, otherwise we would either die or create a new warp god.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-11-17 10:41am

NecronLord wrote:
DocHorror wrote:
and the only other example of a human soul after death
What about that guy in Xenos? He died in the service of Chaos, Eisenhorn and Rouke(? I think) used an astropathic choir to venture to the other side and talk to his soul. They then offered to snuff it out before the daemons found it.
Correction: the only other example of a human soul after death that springs to mind.

It was Commodus Voke. The procedure was also implied to be something that was established if not routine. The Inquisition's threat in Grey Knights might not have been completely idle.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2004-11-17 11:08am

Stormbringer wrote: Actually, according to the creation fluff, the old shamans that died creating the Emperor were worried that humans, particularly their own sort, were disappearing into the warp and not returning. That was one of the prime reasons that they created the Emperor, otherwise we would either die or create a new warp god.

That doesn't as much mean they were providing an afterlife as making an uberpsyker who was immortal.

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2004-11-17 12:37pm

I've thinking this. How are the Servitor made, meaning are they marines or IG who too much of themselves blown of or something else (like ex-criminals (don't break the law or we'll turn you into a cyberzombie (if you're lucky)))

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How did Horus die (WH40K)

How did Horus die (WH40K)

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