tricky Trekkie tech

[CNS Sarajevo]

Try saying that 3 times fast.

The transporter reliability thread gave me an idea. How many forms of tech does Star Trek have that's great, when it works, but you'd rather not use it yourself.

For myself...

Transporters. YOU step in that thing.

Structural integrity fields. I'd prefer advanced materials and architecture.

Holodecks. You think it's a pain what computer viruses do NOW?

Force fields for everything. How about a door?

The starboard power coupling. Sorry, I had to . One shot, it goes down!

[Darth Yoshi]

The warp core. I think I'll pull shifts near the [technobabble]antigrav device for escaping vessel which is about to undergo explosive decompression[/technobabble].

[Darth Yoshi]

The warp core. I think I'll pull shifts near the [technobabble]antigrav device for escaping vessel which is about to undergo explosive decompression[/technobabble].

In case you don't know, I mean escape pods.

[Wicked Pilot]

Among other things:

The food replicators. What is it accidently mistakes H20 for H2SO4? I think I'll stick with MREs.

Transporters. The damn thing kills you and makes a clone somewhere else. You freakin die in the process!

The bathrooms. We've never seen them, but I do wonder what kind of treknobabble is used to flush a toilet or wipe your ass.

The holodeck. You'd think that after all the people its killed, the manufacturer would've issued a recall order.

Consoles. Any consoles. I wouldn't be surprised if a Federation issue hand held calculator exploded when you ask the square of a negative number.

[LMSx]

Just being the pilot of the ship would be a real bitch. How do you pilot/maneuver the damn thing with digital controls? The Feddys need a "individual captaincy guiding control analog protusion" or joystick *somewhere* on the bridge.

[SCVN 2812]

Please explain to me how exactly transporting kills you and yet you remain completely concious throughout the process?

Teleportation as we are working on now there is no question that you die and are replaced by a copy of yourself. However, how transporters work, like so much else of sci-fi technology, we can only speculate. It's all well and good to claim transporters kill during normal operation, and yet can you prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt? I don't think so. We can only use our own limited by comparison of where we will be in 300 years, knowledge of physics to figure out how it works, and our current understanding of it suggests that it kills you, but that's our primative, uninformed speculation. We do not have a working transporter to disassemble and figure out how it works, and there is little on screen evidence for the theory that transporters do kill except for the occassional freak accidents (which do happen too frequently for my tastes) that do. I am a fan of Star Trek and I give a damn about the original intent and underlying philosophy of Star Trek, in which case the Federation is an idealistic (note the lack of the term perfect, if it was perfect it wouldn't even be plausible) future civilization. Would a civilization that prides itself on it's moral values field a device that kills every time someone uses it? I think THAT stretches the boundaries of plausibility. Thus it must operate on some principle we are unaware of because it does not fit how the Federation is meant to be. It's a society that doesn't even seem to have a death penalty any more after the 23rd century where only treason warranted the death penalty.

[Mr Bean]

Then how does it create Clones? Riker has been cloned
How did it split somone into good and evil verisons?

The Transporter is a VERY complex device and somthing that more than anything else attracts not just a little but a HORDE of tecnobable that if you hear would make your head exploded

Luckly to date no one has asked how exactly a Transporter works

And the world was saved

For Now?

[Needa]

Transporters ---) Remember that awful Voyager episode "Tuvix"? I don't want to be part of another being

[TheDarkling]

Transporter dont kill someone and hen make a copy elsewhere.

Heres my proof

DATA: I knew we had to have the captain's physical pattern here. He was the last one beamed out.
RIKER: Is what you're thinking possible?
DATA: Unknown at this time, sir. I hope the captain remembers his pattern is here. If he has, his energy has moved into the transporter relays by now...


They need Picards energy to reassemble him so it isnt a straight copying event since this weird energy goes from point of origin to destination.

Thus a persons energy survives the process - Wong notes this in the database but ignored it when he talks about the transporter in the special technology page which is where the "Transport kills" theory comes from.


How do I explain the Second Chances incident? My guess based on my memory of the episode would be that the planetary amosphere duplicated this weird energy somehow.

[David]

Among other things:

The food replicators. What is it accidently mistakes H20 for H2SO4? I think I'll stick with MREs.

Transporters. The damn thing kills you and makes a clone somewhere else. You freakin die in the process!

The bathrooms. We've never seen them, but I do wonder what kind of treknobabble is used to flush a toilet or wipe your ass.

The holodeck. You'd think that after all the people its killed, the manufacturer would've issued a recall order.

Consoles. Any consoles. I wouldn't be surprised if a Federation issue hand held calculator exploded when you ask the square of a negative number.

There is exactly one bathroom on the whole ship, beneath the bridge.


One bathroom for over a thousand people ~shudder~

[Howedar]

Just being the pilot of the ship would be a real bitch. How do you pilot/maneuver the damn thing with digital controls? The Feddys need a "individual captaincy guiding control analog protusion" or joystick *somewhere* on the bridge.

Apparently the Feddies have one on the bridge of the Sovereign, thank God. At least they got one think right.

[Wicked Pilot]

Transporter dont kill someone and hen make a copy elsewhere.

Heres my proof ...

You didn't convince me, but if you started a new thread about rather or not a transporter moves or copies, it would be a rather interesting discussion.

[TheDarkling]

USAF Ace: lol I have started A Subtrans thread, did huge posting on a thread that spoke about transporters being ineffectual and I did a lot of posting on the transporter myths thread.

Im second only to Chief O'Brien in talking about the transporter.

[Master of Ossus]

I would not enjoy eating out of a replicator, but I would probably do it if I had to.

I also MIGHT use a transporter... if someone else did it first.

What I would NOT like to use is the holodeck. I would also not like working in an environment when keyboards are powered by plasma. Where's OSHA when you need it....

I also would not like to use Jeffries Tubes to access EVERYTHING, or borg nanoprobes. I wonder why every starship is honeycombed with a series of uncomfortable looking, claustrophobia-inducing shafts that serve no discernable purpose except to make movement less efficient. I'd almost stick to Cardassian technology so I could stay out of those things (for the most part).

[Master of Ossus]

USAF Ace: lol I have started A Subtrans thread, did huge posting on a thread that spoke about transporters being ineffectual and I did a lot of posting on the transporter myths thread.

Im second only to Chief O'Brien in talking about the transporter.

On the other hand, Barclay never liked being transported, so we can't be THAT weird (although Reg. was ostracized for his phobia). Also, Barclay's fear of transporters seems to have been reinforced nearly every time he was energized! If I was him, I'd stay away from the things, anyway, just because of my past experiences with them. Same thing for me and electric can openers. Don't ask.

[Mr Bean]

Yes you both don't know what your talking about

Darkling you don't know when to give up, You posted a few good points and then fell into the try and Defend France From Hitler with a Spoon and still think you got a shot at it fallacy
Yes thats a long one but it's my own personal one so there


You need to learn when to give up on somthing
It was obvious to everyone we had you beat on Subtran Transporters,
Baddly beat in fact, The smart thing would have been to give up and concide the point as barring future Trecky Epsoides your don't have a working anti-Imperal Tatic on your hands yet

There are quite a few possible big bad anti-Imperal Weapons out there adn I'm suprised it took Treckys so long to find them, Some still don't know what they are and there are new ones every day(Transla torps which seemed to ignore shields where a strong contender untill ST made em a Anti-Borg only weapon, just to name an example)

Pick your Battles Darkling you can't win em all and no one expects you to, People think more highly of a good looser and occsional winner than a bad looser/winner after all

[TheDarkling]

Mr Bean: I didnt lose at all in fact I got people to concede the point that sensors and subtrans arent affected the same and that the comms jamming was a wobley defence at best.

If anything it was a partial victory but it was nowhere near a defeat - prehaps you left the thread before that.

I didnt say I know as much as the Chief I just said a babble on about them almost as much.

[Mr Bean]

I didnt lose at all in fact I got people to concede the point that sensors and subtrans arent affected the same and that the comms jamming was a wobley defence at best.

*Blink Blink Realy when? If you rember I was the one asking for Proof that Subtrance and Communcations are not the same basic pinciple, one just sending more information then the other, If you can't it means Full Powered up Shields Prevent any chance of Subtrance but since Full power also cuts Long-Distance Communcation it leaves the door open possible for Command Attacks or another verison of the Big Bad Bomb TM idea


Yes there was Connesion that Jamming is up in the air but very much a likely(Call it 50/50 for Fairness sake)
But you never showed that Communcation and Transportation where fundmentaly diffrent, One is just more Data
If you want to keep going use the old thread don't tie this one up here, I'll keep my eye on it

[TheDarkling]

I showed that sensors arent the same as subspace transport and both of those are just data.

The Wounded:

O'Brien Beams past a starfleet vessels shields in between sensors cycles.

"The pheonix is using a high energy sensor system that cycles ever 5.5 minutes between cycles theres a gap of a 1/50th of a second - I can get through."

Now for high powered I think he means active sensors but you are about to tell me that he means they use some very odd sensors that cause this however this being astandard is backed up by the Tech manual (I know this isnt canon but it backs up the interpretation).

The tech manual also says this "The idea of frequency windows in shields used for sensor scans was the Basis of O'Briens trick in the Wounded".

Conceeded.

Now I came up with reasoning pointing to the fact that comms was also different (The TM indicates this but I cant use it ) the best counter I got was that maybe the E-D couldnt jam but everyone else could - so the evidence aganist was flimsy at best.

My Grand Unifying Subspace Theory (nice? ) takes evidence from over 5 episodes and couldnt be disproven and since I proved sensors and Subtrans operate differently this theory is the best way to explain it.

[Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi]

I don't know why Trek ships need SIFs. If their hulls are so strong, why do they need one to prevent the ship form flying apart? Really large vessels (Executor, Star) might need something like one, but Trek ships are small in comparison. Fore more about this, look at Mike's "Size Matters" page.

[Darth Yoshi]

SImple. Their hulls aren't strong. The fact that Trek weapons need to hit so many times to destroy those things is evidence of their weakness.

[LMSx]

SIFs?

Simple!

When you, uh....have an alien clamping a boarding tool onto your ship, you can "reverse the polarity" of the SIF and repel it away!

[LMSx]

BTW-Was the Descent episode Enterprise using Subtrans, or regular transportation?

[TheDarkling]

LMSx: Normal.

[Mr Bean]

Like I said sensors are a diffrent beast I never said they where the same thing as Transports and Communcations(Who did?) And as I said untill you can prove that Communcations and Transports don't operate on the same principle I have this point in the bag

And as for the TIM thats becaues its says right in the introduction its a bunch of Guesses, that and Trek has always had tons of things to draw aginst even without its own EU(What 500+ espiodes? maybe 600 Hours of Footage Counting Movies and whatnot?, What does SW have? Less than twenty hours of Tape :\)