Buffy Canon

Majin Gojira · Post by **Majin Gojira** » 2004-05-13 06:13pm

Going through some internet articles and other sources and have deduced what is considered canonical in the "Buffy" universe. It is unique in that it has a writer-centric focus to it...anything written by the writers (Or Amber Benson, for some reason)is considered Canonical in most cases.

Here's what I've gathered so far:

Pure Canon
Buffy Seasons 1-7
Angel Season 1-5

Expanded Group 1: Close to Canon
Shooting Scripts
Novelizations (only a few exist, I have not read them yet so I am placing them here only temporarily)

Expanded Group 2:
Buffy the Vampire Slayer: Origin (Dark Horse Comics)
Buffy the Vampire Slayer: Haunted (Dark Horse Comics)
Buffy the Vampire Slayer: Ring of Fire (Dark Horse Comics)
Tales of the Slayers (Dark Horse Comics)
Tales of the Vampire (Dark Horse Comics)

(Formerly of Group 2): Joss Whedon's Fray (Removed by the creator because of Season 7)

Epanded Group 3: Guides (?)
The Watcher's Guide Vol. 1-3
The Monster Book
The Essential Angel
The Sunnydale High Yearbook

I still have to go over a bunch of them and see if they fit...Anything I'm missing, please let me know.

Super-Gagme · Post by **Super-Gagme** » 2004-05-13 08:25pm

Why is Fray removed?

Majin Gojira · Post by **Majin Gojira** » 2004-05-13 08:58pm

Super-Gagme wrote:Why is Fray removed?

Quoteth the Almighty Joss

There are now things in Fray, mythologically, that don't match up, which I'm going to have to explore when I do the next series of Fray comics. Oops, did I say that?"

Majin Gojira · Post by **Majin Gojira** » 2004-05-14 08:25am

After some reviewing, it looks like I'm going to have to figure out not only a new order for this, but a new grouping as well.

Majin Gojira · Post by **Majin Gojira** » 2004-05-17 11:02am

Adding another comic from "The Almighty Joss"

Angel: Long Nights Journey (Dark Horse Comic)

Hades · Post by **Hades** » 2004-05-24 08:42am

Majin Gojira wrote:
Super-Gagme wrote:Why is Fray removed?
Quoteth the Almighty Joss

There are now things in Fray, mythologically, that don't match up, which I'm going to have to explore when I do the next series of Fray comics. Oops, did I say that?"

I didn't notice anything that didnt add up. posibly the fact that the watchers council was blown up but there is no reason why that wont be re-formed in the next few hundred years.

Majin Gojira · Post by **Majin Gojira** » 2004-05-24 11:40am

It's the destruction of all magic, and to when that happens, as well as the mass calling of Slayers that needs to be recognized...though he does hint that it will be taken care of in the sequel--lets hope it gets made.

Majin Gojira · Post by **Majin Gojira** » 2004-05-24 11:44am

Oh yes, and "Ring of Fire" really can't be placed well into canon, unfortunately...and fortunately--because some characters are pretty badly OOC.

Majin Gojira · Post by **Majin Gojira** » 2004-05-24 11:46am

SHIT! I just keep remembering stuff: Apparently, because Joss is such a big fan of comics, the Dark Horse series holds higher canonicity than the novels do (which is unfortunate because the novels have referenced both Cthulhu and Highlander directly)

Hades · Post by **Hades** » 2004-05-24 01:15pm

Majin Gojira wrote:It's the destruction of all magic, and to when that happens, as well as the mass calling of Slayers that needs to be recognized...though he does hint that it will be taken care of in the sequel--lets hope it gets made.

The destruction of all magic was never given a spacific date in the frey comics, it just said "sometime in the 21st century" so essentually theres a whole other 98 odd years after Buffy ended where this could happen.

I agree he needs to explain how somehow it went back down to there just being one slayer though.

Majin Gojira · Post by **Majin Gojira** » 2004-06-20 10:54pm

Update:

Man, Most Buffy Comics Downright SUCK. However, I can effectively remove "Ring of Fire" from the Canon list due to continuity incongruities (not to mention HORRIBLE Out of Character Drusilla and Kendra).

The Origin Tale should be held BELOW the original Joss-Whedon script in most instances...it's pretty bad...and there are some vampiric contradictions (Vampire Bat Monsters...No, Really).

Plus...it's very much Teh Suck

Here is a link to an early version of the Buffy Script.

I have also recently picked up a copy of the Angel Casefiles book. An Episode Guide book with much extra information -- Including Documents only breifly flashed on the screen--Like Faith's Police Bulletin:

Identification
Order no. 7642

Has reportedly been in posession of numerous weapons. She may be considered armed and should be considered extremely dangerous.

Please furnish any information which may assist in locating this individual to any federal or local police officer or the nearest law enforcement agent as listed on the back of this notice.

Description
--------------------------------------------------------
Sex: Female
Race: Caucasian
Place of Birth: Boston
Date of Birth: December 14, 1980
Height: 5'7"
Weight: 110lbs
Eyes: Brown
Hair: Brown
Skin Tone: Fair
Scars, Marks, Tatoos: Tatoo on right arm
Social security number: 131-24-2389
ncic fingerpint classification: P6 66 04 18 18 Pi Pm 05 18 17

Reward being offered by the community civic group MOO for information leading to the arrest and conviction of the suspect

Caution: Armed and Dangerous

Lots of information there!

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2004-06-21 12:17am

I'm pretty sure some of the info from the Casefiles is wrong. In the Lonely Hearts chapter it shows a picture of a demon with the caption that it is the Talamour Demon. From what I remember of the episode, that is in fact a Piasca demon.

Majin Gojira · Post by **Majin Gojira** » 2004-06-21 07:40am

Here's the actually scene:

Cut to Cordy and Doyle sitting together looking through a bunch of books about demons. Doyle points at the picture of a demon.
Doyle: “Here’s another one. Piasca. It’s a flesh-eating Indian demon that enters victims through the mouth and eviscerates from within. You’re going to put that one down?”
Cordy: “Yeah. Ugh, demons. Is there anything more disgusting?”
Doyle after a beat: “You think so?”
Cordy looks at him surprised: “Come on. - Okay, look at this one. (points to picture) This demon wears a wreath of intestines around its head. I mean honestly, what kind of a statement is this thing trying to make with that?”
Doyle: “Yeah, you know, - I mean, it really depends, doesn’t it? - I mean some demons could actually be nice, - given the opportunity. I think, you’d have to get to know them, yeah?”
Cordy: “I’ve met a lot of demons, and slime aside, not a whole lot going on there.”

The image is mislabeled...and the demon pictured isn't mentioned in the text. Hence Levels of canonicity takes precidence.

Still, it has the documents used in the series along with other tid bits.

InnerBrat · Post by **InnerBrat** » 2004-06-21 07:46am

I find Buffy a bit sloppy continuity-wise anyway (Spike's sire, anyone?), but what about the movie and the RPGs? How would you fit them in?

Majin Gojira · Post by **Majin Gojira** » 2004-06-21 08:18am

InnerBrat wrote:I find Buffy a bit sloppy continuity-wise anyway (Spike's sire, anyone?), but what about the movie and the RPGs? How would you fit them in?

Buffy is absolutely horrible concerning dates in its early seasons (Buffy's birth date, the year Angel was re-ensouled, etc.), but they seem to have fixed most of them later on.

The TV show purposefully seperates itself from the movie (No more PMS Radar, Burning down the Gym), so the Original Joss Script (which no one seems to have) and Comic Adaptation (which is horribly bad and has green vamp-bat monsters for some reason) help us figure out some of what happened.

The RPG is an pretty accurate interpretation of the Buffyverse. It does not inforce it's own rules on it, but lets the show guide its rules.

It's basically the equivelent of "Call of Cthulhu".

Majin Gojira · Post by **Majin Gojira** » 2004-06-21 08:23am

Oh yes, because of an appearance in "Tales of the Slayer", I'm probably going to invesigate the comic Series "False Memories" for the appearance of Yuki Makumura, a Slayer Vampire (and also dealing with some of how Dawn affected their memories...)

Hopefully it won't be as bad as the Season 1-3 comics shown. Judging by "Haunted", it looks up...but it'll still probably suck.

Hades · Post by **Hades** » 2004-06-21 09:14am

Majin Gojira wrote:I and Comic Adaptation (which is horribly bad and has green vamp-bat monsters for some reason) help us figure out some of what happened.

But lets not forget Dracular, who in the series could also turn himself into a bat using magic. no reason why the ones in the origin comic wern't doing the same.

Majin Gojira · Post by **Majin Gojira** » 2004-06-21 11:46am

They didn't turn themselves into bats--they were Anthropamorphized Bat Monsters...that were GREEN

Here's one shot of them

Here's another

Plus, these Bat-Monsters were bestial creatures of low inteligence.

Crom · Post by **Crom** » 2004-06-21 11:57am

Majin Gojira wrote:<snip>

I think your links are broken.

I remember those vampires. They were pretty disappointing, but then it's like every Buffy-verse vampire is depressing.

This may not be the thread for it, but I've wondered why Spike and Angel all seem to be more powerful than other vampires?

Majin Gojira · Post by **Majin Gojira** » 2004-06-21 03:31pm

Try the homepage and see if you can't get to the Origin Min-Series from there

Angel and Spike seem very powerful because we often see n00b vampires just ouit of the ground. Spike is over 130 years old now, and Angel is well over 200. Most vamps we see haven't even had a centenial.

IE: the one Dalra meets in a bar when she is trying to become a vamp again has been a vamp less than 5 years.

Those that have are major players, usually: Darla (400), Drusilla (150+), The Master (Officially 500 years, but I lean more towards 900 myself), Dracula (500), Kakistose (Unknown), Pen (200), etc....

Majin Gojira · Post by **Majin Gojira** » 2004-06-21 03:32pm

Also, Vampires are near the bottom of the Demonic Pecking order. The equivelant of big mosquitos in a world of giant insects.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2004-06-21 04:16pm

Majin Gojira wrote:The image is mislabeled...and the demon pictured isn't mentioned in the text. Hence Levels of canonicity takes precidence.

Still, it has the documents used in the series along with other tid bits.

Right, the piasca was the demon Doyle pointed to. Suffice it to say, the image was still mislabelled.

Seele · Post by **Seele** » 2004-06-24 10:41pm

Majin Gojira wrote:SHIT! I just keep remembering stuff: Apparently, because Joss is such a big fan of comics, the Dark Horse series holds higher canonicity than the novels do (which is unfortunate because the novels have referenced both Cthulhu and Highlander directly)

In what ways do they reference both Cthulha and Highlander?

Majin Gojira · Post by **Majin Gojira** » 2004-06-25 07:45am

The Book "Night of the Living Rerun" References a Lovecraftian Tomb, The Book of Eibon. The Highlander Reference comes from a past slayer meeting up with Lord Byron and sensing something off about him (Lord Byron is an Immortal in the Highlander Series).

Hades · Post by **Hades** » 2004-06-28 08:01am

But surly "higher" cannon level simply means that while the stuff in the books would be considerd wrong if contradicted in the TV series or comics if nothing contradicts it then it is considerd cannon?