Gate: Thus the JSDF Fought

[biostem]

So I started watching the anime "Gate: Thus the JSDF Fought" a few weeks ago, and I find the concept extremely entertaining. It's low on the "chosen one" type of stuff, and plays the JSDF soldiers as, (IMO), very realistically. The modern weapons, even though they are outdated by modern standards, make short work of the high fantasy forces, (with the notable exceptions of elder dragons). It's also amusing to see how the fantasy culture becomes so fearful of the JSDF, that once they witness their soldiers being mowed down en masse, they basically cut them a wide berth. In some regards, it reminds me of an older series "Those who hunt elves", albeit without a ecchi elements, and with a more serious tone.

Has anyone else checked this series out yet? If not, I highly recommend it.

It also got me to thinking - if you were in charge of the expeditionary forces sent through the titular gate, what sort of scouting party would you send through, what objectives would you give them, and what sort of support facilities would you construct gate-side?

[Majin Gojira]

Haven't seen it, but count me as interested. I never got to finish "Those Who Hunt Elves" back when I first saw it as an anime, but I enjoyed it a lot, echie elements be damned.

No, really, damn them.

I was more there for the interesting cast and the fact that they owned a tank powered by fruit juice which was possessed by the ghost of a cat.

It's a level of weird I can get behind.

[biostem]

Haven't seen it, but count me as interested. I never got to finish "Those Who Hunt Elves" back when I first saw it as an anime, but I enjoyed it a lot, echie elements be damned.

No, really, damn them.

I was more there for the interesting cast and the fact that they owned a tank powered by fruit juice which was possessed by the ghost of a cat.

It's a level of weird I can get behind.

I don't want to give anything away, but one thing to take into consideration w/ this series is that, apparently, the original author was very pro-military, while also being somewhat against the parliament/senate that was in power at the time, so the military is generally depicted very favorably, while the government officials are depicted unfavorably. It's also more of a drama w/ action and light comedy interspersed - still, when the action happens, it is quite epic, (especially the siege of Italica, around episode 4-5).

[Vendetta]

I don't want to give anything away, but one thing to take into consideration w/ this series is that, apparently, the original author was very pro-military, while also being somewhat against the parliament/senate that was in power at the time, so the military is generally depicted very favorably, while the government officials are depicted unfavorably.

No more so than any other milfic though (and probably a good bit less). You could take the shrill politician character and put her in basically any other story with a military protagonist and not think anything was weird.


Gate's been OK so far, despite threatening to mutate into a harem comedy, which I hope it avoids.

[Majin Gojira]

Well, I finally saw it, and man is it jingoistic. Like uncomfortably so. And while not as overtly ecchi as "Those who Hunt Elves" it still has that token perversion that pervades anime. And then some.

But it's really fun seeing medieval hordes torn apart by modern weaponry.

To the OP: I'd go Stargate on a non-hostile portal: a mix of soldiers and anthroplogists, linguists and similar specialist to make first contact run smoothly.

[Vendetta]

I've seen people talk about the show as being jingoistic before, but I'm really not seeing it.

The JSDF secures the far side of the gate, which they know to be hostile because it attacked them, and then prioritises peaceful contact in order to avoid further conflict.

That's basically the exact opposite of jingoism (Jingoism, remember, is aggressively militaristic policy).

Sure, the reasons why other nations aren't involved are a bit contrived, but that's basically necessary for the story.

[Majin Gojira]

I guess a better word for it would be nationalistic pride then. But I've the same criticsm lobied at film like the Gamera trilogy and some of the Godzilla films, so I'm basing the comparison partly on that.

[Simon_Jester]

I don't want to give anything away, but one thing to take into consideration w/ this series is that, apparently, the original author was very pro-military, while also being somewhat against the parliament/senate that was in power at the time, so the military is generally depicted very favorably, while the government officials are depicted unfavorably.

No more so than any other milfic though (and probably a good bit less). You could take the shrill politician character and put her in basically any other story with a military protagonist and not think anything was weird.

I've always wondered about that- why is it hard for authors of military fiction to do a good job of presenting sensible politicians on their own side?

[Purple]

I've always wondered about that- why is it hard for authors of military fiction to do a good job of presenting sensible politicians on their own side?

Because it is a cheap and easy way to produce drama. If your bellowed troops are great at fighting than they will win every battle. So there has to be a reason why they can't just end the war by X-mass. And political mismanagement is a very easy fallback for this. Lions led by donkeys and all that.

[Adam Reynolds]

I've always wondered about that- why is it hard for authors of military fiction to do a good job of presenting sensible politicians on their own side?

Because it is a cheap and easy way to produce drama. If your bellowed troops are great at fighting than they will win every battle. So there has to be a reason why they can't just end the war by X-mass. And political mismanagement is a very easy fallback for this. Lions led by donkeys and all that.

And because it is a common myth that militaristic cultures fall back on when they fail. As you mention there was the British myth of lions led by donkeys in WW1, the Stabbed in the back myth for the Germans post WW1, and the US failure in Vietnam being blamed entirely on politics rather than military defeat(while here the problem was at least somewhat political, it was not entirely so).

The writers of this sort of fiction often blame politicians because on some level they believe this is what is wrong with their military. Look at Tom Clancy's books in which Democratic presidents are almost universally failures at foreign relations who often strive to keep America out of conflict whatever the cost, despite the fact that Democratic presidents drew America into both World Wars.

[Vendetta]

I mean maybe some of the nationalism accusations come from the fact that Japan is being presented as being better than a fantasy medieval kingdom, but when your points of comparison are "modern first world" and "medieval fantasy" that's not very difficult....

[SAMAS]

That, and the behavior of the US(and other countries of course) regarding the Gate. For example, sending SF teams to try to extract Lori and the other Gatesiders in Japan at the time.

All at once (well, US, China, and I think Russia, anyway).
Spoiler

Naturally, they all get stomped by JSDF SF, then in the manga, Lori jumps in and things get bloody real quick.

[SilverDragonRed]

Is there an english translation for the manga?

[SAMAS]

I think it's at Batoto. No link(hell, just giving the name might be dodgy as it is).

[Ahriman238]

Accepting that all I've seen are some brief clips on youtube, this is giving me strong Salvation War flashbacks.

[Borgholio]

I'm watching on Youtube now. I actually really enjoy it. I'll second that it's definitely reminiscent of Salvation War.

[Nephtys]

I can't get over one thing...

"I'm an Otaku. I'm so upset that Comiket was cancelled due to INCURSION BY EXTRA-DIMENSIONAL FANTASY RACES, and that I had to go and FIGHT ORCS".

What? Seriously, that's what's still on the character's mind?

[SilverDragonRed]

Unfortunately, that is a common thing in anime when it comes to otakus.

[Purple]

I would say it's a common thing in human nature really. Your world has just been turned on its head. Everything you thought you knew was wrong. Oh and you have just been picked up to go fight in a war. So you cling to the little things in life to ignore the big ones and keep you sane.

[Mr Bean]

I would say it's a common thing in human nature really. Your world has just been turned on its head. Everything you thought you knew was wrong. Oh and you have just been picked up to go fight in a war. So you cling to the little things in life to ignore the big ones and keep you sane.

It's a very real thing, in my time in the Navy I heard people bitching all sorts of odd complains about what Iraq 3 had made them miss.

Purple is on the money, when things go to hell your mind gets weird about what matters. When I was deployed even as I spend days without sleeping working 18/6 shifts for five days in a row I'd fantasize about a McDonalds BigMac. Why? I don't know but I was mad about two things, one I want a BigMac, two what's going on in Battlestar Galatica and House right now?

[Shinn Langley Soryu]

That, and the behavior of the US(and other countries of course) regarding the Gate. For example, sending SF teams to try to extract Lori and the other Gatesiders in Japan at the time.

All at once (well, US, China, and I think Russia, anyway).
Spoiler

Naturally, they all get stomped by JSDF SF, then in the manga, Lori jumps in and things get bloody real quick.

I could understand Russia and the PRC, but what reason would the United States have to stoop to such behavior (other than the author's own anti-Americanism, of course)?

[Nephtys]

Okay, so I'm on Episode 6.

Apparently, the Princess's name is Pina Colada? Really?
It's really, really bizzare seeing Japanese people do a crazy fetishization of Vietnam-era American Iconography with the while Flight of the Valkyries thing.
The priestess animu waifu girl's entire... uh... source of power is so annoyingly anime.

I don't know what to make of the show. How much credit to give it for trying (as far as I can tell) to be about diplomacy and exploration and culture clash, while botching lots of culture shock opportunities... and still also failing to make good use of the entire 'modern weapons massacring primitive bad guys fetish'.

[SilverDragonRed]

Nephtys, have you seen the movie 'Apocalypse Now'? The segment you're referring to is a nearly clip-for-clip recreation of Lt. Col Kilgore's helicopter squad.

As for Pinya/Pina Col Lada's name; yeah, it's facepalm worthy.

[Majin Gojira]

Yeah, on one hand it'll catch my attention with an interesting idea, character concept or visual.

Then it will do the anime cliche thing and I find myself rolling my eyes, or doing something and going "Really, you went THERE with it?"

The Dark Priestess/Apostle/Whatever being a chief example of it. It's like "Oh, that's an interesting philosophical idea--Oh fuck, they're doing that with it?! Goddamnit, Japan

And having read ahead in the Manga for curiosity's sake, I can say easily that that sort of thing DOES get worse as time goes on, but it does balance out with some other things.

Also: Don't read the manga. It's a lot more explicit about the sort of stuff that got me to shout "Goddamnit Japan" in the first place.

[loomer]

I would say it's a common thing in human nature really. Your world has just been turned on its head. Everything you thought you knew was wrong. Oh and you have just been picked up to go fight in a war. So you cling to the little things in life to ignore the big ones and keep you sane.

It's a very real thing, in my time in the Navy I heard people bitching all sorts of odd complains about what Iraq 3 had made them miss.

Purple is on the money, when things go to hell your mind gets weird about what matters. When I was deployed even as I spend days without sleeping working 18/6 shifts for five days in a row I'd fantasize about a McDonalds BigMac. Why? I don't know but I was mad about two things, one I want a BigMac, two what's going on in Battlestar Galatica and House right now?

And for those of us without the personal experience, who can forget how the live/dead status of J-Lo was a major deal to the Marines of First Recon in the invasion of Iraq? Sure, sure, they're getting shot at, invading a country on morally ambiguous grounds, accidentally killing civilians. What matters is they heard a rumour J-Lo's dead! Say it isn't so!