Let's Plan the invasion of the ST Galaxy by the Empire!

[MKSheppard]

This idea came into my head during a chat , and I've gone back a couple of pages (page three on this forum brings us to 2007) and I haven't found anything resembling logistical planning for an imperial invasion force.

So, assume we're all imperial military planners, who have just been told about the ST Galaxy, and we now have a couple of weeks to work on our scandocs and have a detailed plan to present to the Emperor on how we will conquer the ST Galaxy and spread Civilization to the barbaric races (TM).

What kind of planning assumptions do we go on? How often do we need to refit a ship? How long between refuellings can we run our ships? How many ships do we have to leave behind in each conquered system? How many Sector Armies should we allocate to each planet? etc etc.

I'm assuming also that some basic first contact has taken place, a random feddy, romulan, or whatnot ship has been seized and boarded, so that as planners, we're aware of the limitations of warp drive -- it lets us actually have clearly defined frontlines, we don't have to worry about sneak hyper attacks in our main supply systems.

------------------------------------

Some basic data for our planners:

Fuel

It's said on the back of the Black Ice Sourcebook that 1 billion metric tons of starship grade fuel can power an "Imperial Main Battle Fleet" for a year.

We'll assume it's referring to a Superiority fleet as mentioned in the Imperial Sourcebook, with six ISDs and 390 combat starships. Sector Groups are about four superiority fleets (24 ISDs and 1,560 combat ships), which means if you want to run a single sector group, you need to supply it with about four billion metric tons of fuel a year.

Land vehicle data is kind of hard to come around; but we can assume that in combat; a vehicle probably consumes about 800 liters of fuel a day; which would be 0.8 m3 a day; and at the density of starship fuel (see below); that's about 836 kg of fuel a day for each major combat vehicle (Juggernauts, AT ATs); - but most vehicles in an Imperial army would be much lighter; and probably consume about 50 kg of fuel a day. This basically means an Imperial Sector Army in sustained full scale combat would consume 15,000 metric tons of fuel a day.

Food

The average American in 1995, consumed the following each year (LINK)

198 lbs of grain products
192 lbs of meat (red meat, poultry, and fish)
234 and 238 eggs per year (40-45 lbs of eggs basically)
24 gallons of milk (200 lbs)
65.6 lbs of fats/oils
21.8 gallons of coffee (180.94 lbs)
8 gallons of tea (66.4 lbs)
52 gallons of soft drinks (430 lbs)
12 gallons of bottled water (100 lbs)
22 gallons of beer (182.6 lbs)

About 1,656 lbs of food is needed for each Imperial; and if we add 30% to that to account for packaging weights, e.g. milk would be shipped on pallets, stuff like that, plus container weights; you'd need to move 2,152 lbs (about 1 metric ton) of stuff to keep one guy supplied each year. THis does not take into account the other stuff he'd want, like "I want a computer, I want a uniform", etc; but they'd be inconsequential basically next to his food requirements, unless he wanted a new landspeeder shipped over.

Ship Basic Logistical Data (only modern ships shown):

Command Ships
Executor: (280,734 crew, 38,000 troops; 318,734 total); 6 years consumables.

Heavy Battleline
ISD (36,810 crew, 9,700 troops; 46,510 total); 6 years consumables.

Medium Battleline
418 Cruiser (2,783 crew, 80 troops; 2,863 total) 1.2 years consumables
Strike Cruiser: (1,972 crew, 340 troops; 2,312 total) 1.5 years consumables
Escort Carrier: (3,485 crew, 800 troops; 4,285 total) 9 months consumables
Average: 3,153 crew; 1.15 years consumables

Light Battleline
Nebulon B Frigate: (920 crew; 75 troops; 995 total); 2 years consumables

Picket Line
Corellian Corvette (165 crew); 1 year consumables
Corellian Gunship: (91 crew); 8 months consumables.
Average: 85 crew; 0.55 years consumables

In-System Craft
System Patrol Craft: (12 crew, 10 troops; 22 total); 3 months consumables
Skipray Blastboat: (4 crew); 1 month consumables.
Average: 9 crew; 0.11 years consumables.

Roughing out the Food Requirements of a Sector Fleet

24 x ISDs = 1,116,240 metric tons of food every six years.
400 x Medium Battleline Ships:1,261,200 metric tons of food every 1.15 years
500 x Light Battleline Ships: 497,500 metric tons every 2 years
700 x Picket Line Ships: 59,500 metric tons every 6 months

Food requirements every six years: 9,906,204 metric tons

Basic Organizational Data

Sector Army
1,180,309 personnel
66,640 repulsorcraft/light vehicles
13,992 heavy vehicles

Sector Group:
24 ISDs
1,600 combat ships
800 auxilaries
2,424 ships total

Plus One Squadron under Moff's Personal Command (14 to 60 ships) attached to Sector Group HQ.

NOTE: Politically connected Moffs like Tarkin or Carlinson can have 15 extra squadrons attached for 225 to 900 extra ships to do what they want.

Deepdock Fleet
2 x Deep Dock Complexes
1 x Force Escort Systems Force (108~ warships)
280 Support Vessels

NOTE: The Smallest deepdock complex has three work bays, the largest of which can hold a Victory Star Destroyer with the other two able to accommodate any ship smaller than a carrier.

The biggest deepdock in service has 125 work bays, each big enough to hold a strike cruiser. You can combine them -- four bays can repair/build a VSD, 15 can combine for an ISD, and 18 to do a torpedo sphere.

Support Fleet
500 vessels in total
of which 125 are Corvette Sized or Smaller
of which 125 are Field Secured Container Vessels (FSCV)

NOTES: FSCV's travel in pairs, and a single force sphere on a FSCV is 800m in diameter can hold 250 million m3 of space. (actually sphere volume is 268 million m3; but you need room for access tunnels). Typical chainings of 20~ spheres on a FSCV are common.

NOTE II: On Black Ice class ships, which typically carry nine spheres, the sphere diameter is 600m, with 113 million m3 of space, of which if we go by the scale of the FSCV, only 105.09 million m3 is available for cargo. Each sphere holds about 110 million metric tons of refined fuel for power cells. This suggests that the density of refined fuel in SW is about 1046.72 kg/m3.

[MKSheppard]

Oh, in this universe; the Imps are a bit less powerful -- while an ISD would be literally invincible to an attack by ST ships -- think Wolf 359, but with the ISD playing the Borg Cube's role; the smaller ships the Empire has would be vulnerable to trek powers -- e.g. if you went up against a group of Federation Ships in a 418 class cruiser; you'd know you had been in a battle.

Yes; I know this makes you all cry -- you just want to cruise around in a TIE Defender, blowing up the entire federation fleet one by one.

Thematically, I want this to make things harder on you from the task of a military planner--e.g. so you can't just say "I shall send one Fleet (6 ISDs + 390 combat ships) in and conquer the ST galaxy.

This may also be a better depiction of the balance of power (ship vs ship) between the two universes -- the ISD is pretty damn overpowered, even by SW standards:

A Star Destroyer is considered a line in itself. A naval staff study concluded that a Star Destroyer was the equivalent of at least the squadrons of the time, and would be more properly categorized as such. The Admiralty agreed with the analysis, but disagreed with the conclusion. The Admiralty felt that as there were more lines than squadrons, designating the Star Destroyer as a line unit would get them more Star Destroyers. The Admiralty’s thinking prevailed.

In SW, Squadrons are 14 to 60 ships, so...

[The Romulan Republic]

So corvettes can now be killed by Federation capital ships? I guess that blows my plan out of the water.

Going off of the usual estimates of Imperial firepower, I was going to suggest a minimal force of one Deep Dock Fleet and one Superiority Fleet (totaling 6 ISDs, 492 other combat ships, and 280 support vessels combined) for the occupation of the Federation alone, on the basis that a lot of small ships is the way to go when you have to patrol and occupy a large area but your corvettes outgun the enemy's capital ships. The idea was to put a couple corvettes over each of the Federation's 150+ major worlds as security/deterrence of rebellion, while leaving a couple hundred warships for patrolling/as reserves (the ISDs were for the unlikely event of a BDZ, and to defend the wormhole or whatever is connecting the two galaxies).

I guess I'll have to rework it now to go a bit heavier on the capital ships.

[phred]

Some extremely minor questions. How are we getting there? Wormhole? Some sort of hyperspace slipstream drive? Other?

Are we starting in Fed, Klingon, Borg space?

Federation crews you can get to cooperate. Klingons you can probably conquer, and then pump for information. The Borg will have to be burned out of existence, at which point you will need to do your own scouting until you find someone willing to cooperate.

[MKSheppard]

So corvettes can now be killed by Federation capital ships? I guess that blows my plan out of the water.

Essentially yes. It might be that Corvettes are actually overgunned relatively speaking for their size; and they don't have the energy accumulator banks necessary to take back the firepower they dish out (all that energy hitting the shields has to go somewhere -- an ISD has the huge energy banks or storage to absorb that firepower, but not a tiny corvette).

The idea was to put a couple corvettes over each of the Federation's 150+ major worlds as security/deterrence of rebellion, while leaving a couple hundred warships for patrolling/as reserves (the ISDs were for the unlikely event of a BDZ, and to defend the wormhole or whatever is connecting the two galaxies).

That works -- and considering how trivially undermanned most fed worlds are -- remember the great romulan plan to take over Vulcan with 2,000 troops?

A single corvette with kiloton/megaton level firepower should be enough to instill terror and obedience into most worlds.

Still though, we know what underplanning led to *cough* Iraq *cough*, so lets plan conservatively.

[MKSheppard]

Some extremely minor questions. How are we getting there?

No, that's actually a pretty good question.

1.) A Wormhole makes supply and ship replacement trivially easy -- though it does raise the question of rebel infiltration into the ST galaxy, unless we patrol both ends of the wormhole.

2.) A Hyperspace Slipstream drive -- even with wanked out levels still means a journey of a non-trivial length -- years. So this means we have to bring everything we want for our operations with us; which drives up our fleet requirements -- e.g. we have to plan for attrition, like if we want a fleet strength of 100 ISDs, and we assume an attritional loss of 1 ISD to enemy fire etc every six months; and we assume our campaign will last twenty years to conquer the ST galaxy; then that means we'll have to bring 40 extra ISDs along, to maintain our fleet strength. This of course assumes we can't build any new ISDs from mobile deepdock bases in the ST galaxy...

Are we starting in Fed, Klingon, Borg space?

I'm actually open for suggestions here. What does the board think?

Federation crews you can get to cooperate. Klingons you can probably conquer, and then pump for information. The Borg will have to be burned out of existence, at which point you will need to do your own scouting until you find someone willing to cooperate.

Considering how trivially weak ST computer security is; you'll be able to get information right away. But you will need scouts for near-real time updates of the situation.

[phred]

Are we starting in Fed, Klingon, Borg space?

I'm actually open for suggestions here. What does the board think?

That's the thing. If it's a wormhole, pick a spot. If it's some other method you can just hop in somewhere with people that tend to be willing to help.

Considering how trivially weak ST computer security is; you'll be able to get information right away. But you will need scouts for near-real time updates of the situation.

Mostly. If your wormhole opens up in the middle of the Borg's primary system, you immediately have to start blasting until they stop throwing stuff at you. At which point it's probe droid time until you find someone with maps.

Edit: Feranginar(sp?) would be a good starting point if we get to choose, since I'm sure there's something we can just trade for good, extensive star charts.

[Gandalf]

The Federation has several planets in its space that are not well charted.

A wormhole into one of these star systems would allow for that star system to be fortified before the Federation had the slightest idea anything was happening.

[Samuel]

Considering how trivially weak ST computer security is; you'll be able to get information right away. But you will need scouts for near-real time updates of the situation.

How competant are Wars translation systems? We don't speak English, Klingon or any of the other tongues and the Universal Translator might work off a common reference due to widespread trading and interaction.

Edit: Feranginar(sp?) would be a good starting point if we get to choose, since I'm sure there's something we can just trade for good, extensive star charts.

Just like everyone else- their lives.

The Federation has several planets in its space that are not well charted.

The majoity of its territory is probably like that. Those that do have ships generally have so few that we can take them out and try to fake transmissions to buy time.

General plan- use supeior mobility to seize capital of whatever group we are up against and force a surrender. If it is a single species government we probably have them all, but in the Federation's case I can see member worlds breaking away.

[phred]

Edit: Feranginar(sp?) would be a good starting point if we get to choose, since I'm sure there's something we can just trade for good, extensive star charts.

Just like everyone else- their lives.

The point of starting there is that as soon as the fleet shows up, Ferangi will start trying to communicate to see if we want to do business. As opposed to other places, where the inhabitants might react with fear/caution/hostility.

We can just ask for star charts and trade them some pretty toys they might like, as opposed to say some Klingon planet where we would need to burn a continent or two first.

[JointStrikeFighter]

Commence trade, flood market with goods crashing the econ. Problem solved.

[MKSheppard]

Commence trade, flood market with goods crashing the econ. Problem solved.

You mean like flood the market with 1 million used spacecraft like the Millenium Falcon or slightly older? The Falcon is what 40 years old by the point of ANH. Even a shitty hyperdrive is tons better than warp drive; and as we've seen, there really is no private ownership of small spacecraft in ST, except by the ferengi.

[Vehrec]

Lots of things to consider. Speed of Communications for one, can we talk with Coruscant in real time? If not, how much of a delay is there out here and who will be leading this expedition? How can their loyalty to Emperor Palpatine be guaranteed? How do we balance control among the various factions of Fleet, Army, ISB, IIS, Ubectorate, and the Moffs themselves?

Fuel needs can be complicated by a number of factors. Are the listed consumptions for Hotel Load, projected levels of combat and patrol consumption for a deep core security fleet, or high intensity combat like the Clone Wars? Will we be able to bring fuel extraction infrastructure with us, or can we convert local infrastructure to serve this purpose? How much of our tanker convoy's capacity needs to be reserved for their own needs to make runs between here and the home galaxy?

Repairs and maintenance of ships is another factor that needs to be considered. We presumably have access to mobile deepdocks, but is that enough to service the large fleets we'll be taking with us? Can local yards provide anything worth keeping them intact for, or would it be better to bring combat engineers and a representative from Kuat to set up new factories and facilities? How many spare parts should we be bringing on this trip, just for upkeep and how much extra for damage control operations? Can our deepdocks fabricate replacements or should we set aside enough transport capacity to provide for that as well? How badly damaged would a ship have to be for us to send it to the scrapyards or Kuat for a total refit? And what would be needed to tow an ISD back to it's yard?

Ordinance and parasites is also worth considering. ISDs might not carry torpedoes as a standard armament, but they carry TIE bombers that do. Other ships like Broadsides do carry torpedoes. These also need to be replaced, and may require special handling or precautions that bulk food and fuel units do not. Blaster gas is also a consideration, we're not 100% ammo independent even for our all turbolaser designs. Replacement fighters should also be included, as well as probe droids, and any other items such as hyperspace observation satellites or messenger drones that might be needed in opening up this new region.

[Eleas]

Is this to be a budget version invasion? This is not Iraq, by which I mean no flamebait, but that the concerns are different - the invaders may actually be able to liberate untold amounts of resources for their use that the ST powers simply haven't gotten around to considering yet, and use them to bolster their presence. That is what I propose they should do; the fleet desperately needs an advance base on site in the galaxy, and most probably a number of them. Even if we have a wormhole, that will always be a weak point and a place for the enemy to cause mischief, and Imperial bureaucracy will always have the last say on whether our mighty fleet should suddenly accept a twenty-percent reduction in effectiveness because "the order for parts you sent got mixed up with another request. You can make do with Tibanna that isn't spin-sealed, right?"

These bases should ideally be clustered remotely from the greatest powers of the Milky Way. The definition of "remote" we know thanks to the fact that warp-capable vessels have been seized. The stations should be decently armed as they must be able to defend themselves adequately, and be able to call in reinforcements if needed. Their function is to provide drydocking capability and to be a shelter for repairs, overhaul, and refueling; without them, the initial invasion may work just fine, but pacification and late-stage fighting will grow progressively more inefficient, which isn't likely to impress the Emperor.

I must say though, I like the idea of putting a base within Fed territory. Not a base proper, though; a listening post would be fairly nice, particularly given the level of transmissions the Fed territories probably pump into space. To be safe, it should best be done as far away from the Neutral Zone as possible. What do we know about the signal stealth in Star Wars? Would it be reasonable to send a hyperwave message through a chain of transcievers and not expect discovery?

Attacking the Borg may be tempting, and maybe starting with that will be necessary. I don't like it however, because while the Borg occasionally poke a finger out of their territories, they're still pretty static and a known quantity. Attacking them would be tipping one's hand and locking all resources in a large-scale conflict, while other powers would almost certainly get wind of the Empire. An unbloodied Imperial task force should be able to deal with singular second-tier Alpha Quadrant powers more or less effortlessly.

It does strike me, though, that there's one other target that, while ambitious and significantly more risky, would possibly reap greater rewards: the Dominion. Choosing them as the first target would satisfy a number of requirements - their empire is large and comparatively high-tech, thus a good candidate for erecting a new industrial base; they are genetically homogenous, and should thus be easily affected by tailored pathogens and other biological weapons; they are greatly disliked even by their neighbors for their ruthlessness and speciesist attitude, meaning their allies might be swayed to work for the Empire; they are insular, and it may thus be possible to prevent excessive reports of the Imperial presence or data on Imperial capabilities.

[Darth Hoth]

Considering how trivially weak ST computer security is; you'll be able to get information right away. But you will need scouts for near-real time updates of the situation.

How competant are Wars translation systems? We don't speak English, Klingon or any of the other tongues and the Universal Translator might work off a common reference due to widespread trading and interaction.

Considering the computing power we have available translating an unknown language (especially a human one derived from a technological civilisation) should not be terribly difficult. Of course, if Force sensitives are allowed, "cheating" with telepathy makes it that much easier.

[The Romulan Republic]

Is this to be a budget version invasion?

Even the Empire does not have limitless resources. I'm not saying we should go in with barely minimal forces, but frankly simply charting out, patrolling, and occupying a galaxy (even if there's no significant resistance) is already going to take a lot of ships. No reason to be less efficient than nessissary.

This is not Iraq, by which I mean no flamebait, but that the concerns are different - the invaders may actually be able to liberate untold amounts of resources for their use that the ST powers simply haven't gotten around to considering yet, and use them to bolster their presence. That is what I propose they should do; the fleet desperately needs an advance base on site in the galaxy, and most probably a number of them. Even if we have a wormhole, that will always be a weak point and a place for the enemy to cause mischief, and Imperial bureaucracy will always have the last say on whether our mighty fleet should suddenly accept a twenty-percent reduction in effectiveness because "the order for parts you sent got mixed up with another request. You can make do with Tibanna that isn't spin-sealed, right?"

How plausible is it I wonder (especially given the downgrading in firepower our ships have recieved) that someone could actually launch an attack on the wormhole, and try to collapse it to cut off our supply lines? Not likely perhaps, but given the disaster it would be if it did occur, even an outside chance of such an occurance is something to guard carefully against. Also, while their are a number of ways to detect cloaked ships in Trek, might it be wise to request one of those anti-cloak things (crystal grav traps?) for the wormhole to guard against infilteration of our base?

If our supply lines depend on a single, potentially vulnerable choke point, I don't want to take any chances. And MKSheppard already raised the concern of Rebel infilteration as well.

I must say though, I like the idea of putting a base within Fed territory. Not a base proper, though; a listening post would be fairly nice, particularly given the level of transmissions the Fed territories probably pump into space. To be safe, it should best be done as far away from the Neutral Zone as possible. What do we know about the signal stealth in Star Wars? Would it be reasonable to send a hyperwave message through a chain of transcievers and not expect discovery?

Why even make the Federation a priority? They're far from the most powerful opponent out their, and they control a tiny fraction of galactic territory.

Actually though, that might be a good reason to start out in their space. Easier to establish a base their than in the middle of Borg space.

Attacking the Borg may be tempting, and maybe starting with that will be necessary. I don't like it however, because while the Borg occasionally poke a finger out of their territories, they're still pretty static and a known quantity. Attacking them would be tipping one's hand and locking all resources in a large-scale conflict, while other powers would almost certainly get wind of the Empire. An unbloodied Imperial task force should be able to deal with singular second-tier Alpha Quadrant powers more or less effortlessly.

More than tempting, its a strategic nessessity. We know that in this scenario, Fed ships can take down our corvettes. It should then stand to reason that a Borg cube would be able to threaten at least small capital ships. And the Borg have a lot of cubes. In this scenario they would rank as at least a minor power by Star Wars standards. And given that we have exactly what the Borg want (superior technology), I would not be suprised if they made us target number one. Best to nip this one in the bud and take them down at the start.

It does strike me, though, that there's one other target that, while ambitious and significantly more risky, would possibly reap greater rewards: the Dominion. Choosing them as the first target would satisfy a number of requirements - their empire is large and comparatively high-tech, thus a good candidate for erecting a new industrial base; they are genetically homogenous, and should thus be easily affected by tailored pathogens and other biological weapons; they are greatly disliked even by their neighbors for their ruthlessness and speciesist attitude, meaning their allies might be swayed to work for the Empire; they are insular, and it may thus be possible to prevent excessive reports of the Imperial presence or data on Imperial capabilities.

I would actually consider the Dominion an easier target than the Borg in this scenario in one key respect, because while the Dominion is powerful militarily, it lacks transwarp tech. Their is less of a propulsion gap between us and the Borg, which increases the chances that the Borg will be able to redeploy forces to meet our attacks, or even launch retalliatory strikes on our bases. The Borg are a rapidly reproducing plauge that should be wiped out first.

Unfortunately, this will require a lot of capital ships. How many I can't say exactly, because I do not know how many cubes the Borg have. We don't really need to match them ship for ship (even accounting for the firepower boost) as long as our forces are more mobile and we're using superior tactics. However, I would suggest a bare minimum of one ISD per several cubes (the firepower will also come in handy for the numerous Base Delta Zeros that will probably have to occur on Borg infested worlds).

[Stark]

You mean like flood the market with 1 million used spacecraft like the Millenium Falcon or slightly older? The Falcon is what 40 years old by the point of ANH. Even a shitty hyperdrive is tons better than warp drive; and as we've seen, there really is no private ownership of small spacecraft in ST, except by the ferengi.

He probably means 'goods', products of all kinds. SW can trivially out-produce ST in anything they consider valuable or trade in, which arguably makes military conquest unnecessary.

[The Romulan Republic]

Lots of things to consider. Speed of Communications for one, can we talk with Coruscant in real time? If not, how much of a delay is there out here and who will be leading this expedition? How can their loyalty to Emperor Palpatine be guaranteed? How do we balance control among the various factions of Fleet, Army, ISB, IIS, Ubectorate, and the Moffs themselves?

I think its probably safe to say that if we were to pick a canon officer to lead this invasion, most of you would probably pick Thrawn. Exploring/subjugating minor powers on the edge of known space is basically what he was doing out in the Unknown Regions, right? And I'd say he has the political tact not to completely piss on the chance of earning the goodwill of the local population as someone like Tarkin probably would.

That said, this is I think a legitimate concern for the Empire in planning such an invasion. Given how many of their officers seem to be power-hungry bastards, who's loyalty can be counted on in such a scenario without rapid and reliable communication with home?

[Eleas]

I think its probably safe to say that if we were to pick a canon officer to lead this invasion, most of you would probably pick Thrawn. Exploring/subjugating minor powers on the edge of known space is basically what he was doing out in the Unknown Regions, right? And I'd say he has the political tact not to completely piss on the chance of earning the goodwill of the local population as someone like Tarkin probably would.

While Thrawn does seem to be a good choice, I think it's pertinent to point out that the plan shouldn't require the presence of a superior leader in command. In fact, ideally, I believe the plan should be such that not even Daala could seriously jeopardize it, were she in command. However, I doubt it would be feasible to equip a fleet powerful enough to offset that sort of disadvantage.

That said, this is I think a legitimate concern for the Empire in planning such an invasion. Given how many of their officers seem to be power-hungry bastards, who's loyalty can be counted on in such a scenario without rapid and reliable communication with home?

As long as the captains feel that matters are well in hand and all they can hope for if they break away is lording it over stupid natives at best and a messy death at the hands of the fleet as the most realistic scenario, I doubt they'll seriously risk mutiny. But yeah, the Emperor would be right to worry. If there is a wormhole, expect undercover investigators galore. If there's not, expect them to be there anyway, under deep cover.

[The Romulan Republic]

While Thrawn does seem to be a good choice, I think it's pertinent to point out that the plan shouldn't require the presence of a superior leader in command. In fact, ideally, I believe the plan should be such that not even Daala could seriously jeopardize it, were she in command.

There's no plan so good that it is completely immune to screw-ups. It would be best for the planners of any invasion to stack the odds as much in their favor as possible.

However, I doubt it would be feasible to equip a fleet powerful enough to offset that sort of disadvantage.

Not with the reduction in firepower disparity, no. If Fed cap ships can threaten corvettes now, its stands to reason that Borg ships (and a few others out their) can threaten our light capital ships in conventional combat. Sure, we have an advantage, but like I said before, simply occupying and patrolling an entire galaxy even with negligeble opposition is going to take a lot of ships.

[Eleas]

While Thrawn does seem to be a good choice, I think it's pertinent to point out that the plan shouldn't require the presence of a superior leader in command. In fact, ideally, I believe the plan should be such that not even Daala could seriously jeopardize it, were she in command.

There's no plan so good that it is completely immune to screw-ups. It would be best for the planners of any invasion to stack the odds as much in their favor as possible.

That was essentially what I said: that we should have a bit of overhead. In general, when putting together a task force for a given purpose, I believe it best to trim the margins so that the plan wouldn't be impossible for non-geniuses. What would, for instance, happen if Thrawn were assassinated? Presumably a merely competent leader would step up. In addition, one cannot assume a given commander will be spectacularly successful in solving all problems. If he is, that's cause for celebration, but if he's not, it shouldn't be the death knell of your military effort.

However, I doubt it would be feasible to equip a fleet powerful enough to offset that sort of disadvantage.

Not with the reduction in firepower disparity, no.

Not what I'm talking about. I was making a tongue-in-cheek reference to Daala's known history of assaulting defenseless targets with overwhelmingly superior forces and complete surprise on her side, and losing despite this. To offset that sort of incompetence through tonnage is a patently silly idea, and struck me as amusing.

If Fed cap ships can threaten corvettes now, its stands to reason that Borg ships (and a few others out their) can threaten our light capital ships in conventional combat. Sure, we have an advantage, but like I said before, simply occupying and patrolling an entire galaxy even with negligeble opposition is going to take a lot of ships.

To occupy and patrol an entire galaxy sounds like a futile exercise to my mind, and politically dangerous to boot (I don't think the Emperor is going to be very happy with a task force commander in command over territories equal in size to the Galactic Empire). Conquering the galaxy will be strenuous on the task force - scattering these already strained elements over an area they couldn't possibly cover adequately would dilute the fleet to the point of impotence.

[The Romulan Republic]

That was essentially what I said: that we should have a bit of overhead. In general, when putting together a task force for a given purpose, I believe it best to trim the margins so that the plan wouldn't be impossible for non-geniuses. What would, for instance, happen if Thrawn were assassinated? Presumably a merely competent leader would step up. In addition, one cannot assume a given commander will be spectacularly successful in solving all problems. If he is, that's cause for celebration, but if he's not, it shouldn't be the death knell of your military effort.

All perfectly true.

Not what I'm talking about. I was making a tongue-in-cheek reference to Daala's known history of assaulting defenseless targets with overwhelmingly superior forces and complete surprise on her side, and losing despite this. To offset that sort of incompetence through tonnage is a patently silly idea, and struck me as amusing.

Fair enough, but I still feel that firepower reduction makes this a lot more dificulty than it otherwise would be.

To occupy and patrol an entire galaxy sounds like a futile exercise to my mind, and politically dangerous to boot (I don't think the Emperor is going to be very happy with a task force commander in command over territories equal in size to the Galactic Empire).

Maybe have multiple task force commanders who all answer directly to the Emperor? Three or four forces each lead by a Grand Admiral or Grand Moff perhaps?

Conquering the galaxy will be strenuous on the task force - scattering these already strained elements over an area they couldn't possibly cover adequately would dilute the fleet to the point of impotence.

Since the OP says "conquer the galaxy" as opposed to "conquer the Federation" or "conquer the Alpha Quadrant," then the ability to maintain some presence galaxy-wide is essential, or at least the ability to maintain a credible threat of rapid and decisive retalliation Galaxy-wide. If that is impossible, then so is the mission as currently described.

Perhaps it would be better to simply disregard the whole "conquer the Galaxy" thing for now, and instead focus on controlling one or two fairly high-tech and stable areas (ie, the Federation and its neighbors) and taking out anything that might remotely be a threat with an overwelming first strike (ie the Borg, the Dominion), and then simply dig in and take a generation or two to fully integrate those territories into the Empire before expanding gradually outwards?

[Eleas]

Fair enough, but I still feel that firepower reduction makes this a lot more dificulty than it otherwise would be.

Oh, it is. To a point, of course. Overkill isn't bad per se, but there's a reason we don't issue groundpounders the heaviest small arms we can get. It's not always necessary, and sometimes other concerns are much more vital.

To occupy and patrol an entire galaxy sounds like a futile exercise to my mind, and politically dangerous to boot (I don't think the Emperor is going to be very happy with a task force commander in command over territories equal in size to the Galactic Empire).

Maybe have multiple task force commanders who all answer directly to the Emperor? Three or four forces each lead by a Grand Admiral or Grand Moff perhaps?

That's approaching how I think it would actually play out. A set of commanders would each be assigned their own chunks of territory to pacify or specific goals to follow, and there'd be multiple controls to minimize the ability of said commanders to foment against their superiors or the Emperor. In all likelihood, some concessions made in this regard would limit operational flexibility, but I think that would be mild during the initial stages. After the Empire is done with their initial blitzkrieg and settling down to carve up the remains, that's when you'll see efforts to stave off empire-building and infighting, I bet.

Conquering the galaxy will be strenuous on the task force - scattering these already strained elements over an area they couldn't possibly cover adequately would dilute the fleet to the point of impotence.

Since the OP says "conquer the galaxy" as opposed to "conquer the Federation" or "conquer the Alpha Quadrant," then the ability to maintain some presence galaxy-wide is essential, or at least the ability to maintain a credible threat of rapid and decisive retalliation Galaxy-wide. If that is impossible, then so is the mission as currently described.

I'm not arguing it's impossible, I'm saying it's counterproductive to do it instantly. The D-Day was there for a reason, and not just because of the limited approaches; you had to pacify German territories bit by bit. That took its time. This will, too.

Perhaps it would be better to simply disregard the whole "conquer the Galaxy" thing for now, and instead focus on controlling one or two fairly high-tech and stable areas (ie, the Federation and its neighbors) and taking out anything that might remotely be a threat with an overwelming first strike (ie the Borg, the Dominion), and then simply dig in and take a generation or two to fully integrate those territories into the Empire before expanding gradually outwards?

Possibly. I actually think a simple combination of taking/holding Borg and Dominion territories, then offering minor civilizations the chance to join the Empire or suffer, would work wonders. For instance, you might check the whole Alpha Quadrant for months by a few terror attacks against chosen targets by creating local wars, and achieve a result all out of proportion to wasted effort. That would work equally well with other species such as the Kazon or even the Voth.

[The Romulan Republic]

Possibly. I actually think a simple combination of taking/holding Borg and Dominion territories, then offering minor civilizations the chance to join the Empire or suffer, would work wonders. For instance, you might check the whole Alpha Quadrant for months by a few terror attacks against chosen targets by creating local wars, and achieve a result all out of proportion to wasted effort. That would work equally well with other species such as the Kazon or even the Voth.

If I understand what you're saying, how would launching terror attacks set off local wars between factions, as opposed to inciting retalliatory attacks against us? We would have to ensure that blame for the attacks could not be traced back to us.

What about threatening/bribing/persuading a few local factions to join us, giving them some outdated/obsolete Star Wars tech, and using them as proxies against other, hostile powers?

[Juubi Karakuchi]

A thought occurs. Would it be appropriate or worthwhile to consider the possibility of outside intervention? If the Empire is capable of actually invading another galaxy, then it is possible that similarly powerful civilizations in other galaxies will become aware of this. They may consider trans-Galactic expansion on the part of the Empire to be a potential threat to their own interests and security.

Can this possiblity be safely discounted?