Indigineous Australians display enormous double standards.

[weemadando]

The PM has recently announced a big plan to crack down on the quite frankly, horrific rates of sexual abuse in Aboriginal communities.

And then from out of the woodwork come all the usual suspects crying foul on both sides of the fence and slinging mud as hard and as fast as they can.

Anyhow - the issue for me is this (using the example of the Mutujulu community which is likely to be the first site affected):
The community has operated with community policing and tribal law. There's still a problem.

A solution is put forward - one that is VERY harsh, but goddamnit I think that the details of the situation deserve a harsh response. Now suddenly we have reports of indigenous families fleeing to protect their children from the evil white doctors who want to do basic medical checks on them. All this talk of the innocent and guilty alike fleeing to safer ground makes me question:

Where the fuck are their touted "strong tribal bonds and culture"? Where the fuck are their "ties to their sacred ancestral land" which they are now running from as fast as they can?

WE WANT EQUALITY! They scream at the top of their lungs, while demanding every form of concession they can get their hands on. They've been outside of the normal legal system. Outside of the normal police systems. Outside of the normal social security system. Outside of the normal health system. If anything, what this is achieving is giving them their equality that they are always demanding.

I think that this is the best step forward for aboriginal communities in a long time. Maybe it will be this that moves them from being barely functional shanty towns where most people fear to tread into a productive part of the community.

Call the approach heavy-handed if you want, but its about time that someone did something.

[Resinence]

The PM has recently announced a big plan to crack down on the quite frankly, horrific rates of sexual abuse in Aboriginal communities.

And then from out of the woodwork come all the usual suspects crying foul on both sides of the fence and slinging mud as hard and as fast as they can.

Anyhow - the issue for me is this (using the example of the Mutujulu community which is likely to be the first site affected):
The community has operated with community policing and tribal law. There's still a problem.

A solution is put forward - one that is VERY harsh, but goddamnit I think that the details of the situation deserve a harsh response. Now suddenly we have reports of indigenous families fleeing to protect their children from the evil white doctors who want to do basic medical checks on them. All this talk of the innocent and guilty alike fleeing to safer ground makes me question:

Where the fuck are their touted "strong tribal bonds and culture"? Where the fuck are their "ties to their sacred ancestral land" which they are now running from as fast as they can?

WE WANT EQUALITY! They scream at the top of their lungs, while demanding every form of concession they can get their hands on. They've been outside of the normal legal system. Outside of the normal police systems. Outside of the normal social security system. Outside of the normal health system. If anything, what this is achieving is giving them their equality that they are always demanding.

I think that this is the best step forward for aboriginal communities in a long time. Maybe it will be this that moves them from being barely functional shanty towns where most people fear to tread into a productive part of the community.

Call the approach heavy-handed if you want, but its about time that someone did something.

I'm sam kekovich and I'm fed up.

Jokes aside, I just have to agree, it has been getting rediculous over the last few months, I mean for fuck sake. They basically wanted to lynch the copper who had an aboriginal drunk die in in cell, the reaction when he wasnt convicted was rediculous (after he had already been let go and they somehow managed to get him in court again ).

[Broomstick]

Um... could those of us on the other side of the planet have a touch more detail? Even us Americans have heard about the ban on alcohol on aboriginal lands, and that there is some sort of upset. The issue of sexual abuse has been reported, too, although I am unclear if it is forced child marriages to much older men or some other form of abuse.

Also, I haven't heard what the "solution" for sexual abuse is supposed to be.

That said - historically, the white-controlled government of Australia has been known to not only take custody of Aboriginal children at the drop of a hat, they've also had a history of transporting those children thousands of miles away and forcibly assimilating those children. So yeah, I can sort of see where the Aboriginals are concerned about letting authorties at their children.

[Resinence]

Um... could those of us on the other side of the planet have a touch more detail? Even us Americans have heard about the ban on alcohol on aboriginal lands, and that there is some sort of upset. The issue of sexual abuse has been reported, too, although I am unclear if it is forced child marriages to much older men or some other form of abuse.

Also, I haven't heard what the "solution" for sexual abuse is supposed to be.

That said - historically, the white-controlled government of Australia has been known to not only take custody of Aboriginal children at the drop of a hat, they've also had a history of transporting those children thousands of miles away and forcibly assimilating those children. So yeah, I can sort of see where the Aboriginals are concerned about letting authorties at their children.

The Prime Minister has declared a 'national emergency' in the Northern Territory to fight rampant child abuse in remote Aboriginal communities.

Aboriginal communities in the area are wracked with wide-spread petrol sniffing, violence, and child molestation. And the Northern Territory is not a state has allowed the federal government to override the territorial legislative assembly and take control.

The PM will ban alcohol and pornography in 60 target areas and suspended all welfare payments pending the medical examination of some 20,000+ children. Welfare payments will resume on the condition that parents use the money to provide adequate care of their children and also make sure they attend school. These policies will be enforced by the military and a "flood of police". The PM is also urging the other Australian states to take similar action in their own remote areas.

The Prime Minister said on morning TV that these measures are necessary because civilization has literally broken down in the affected areas. Critics have opposed the move on the grounds of racial discrimination, to which the PM has replied "I don't care what they're saying". Early polls have shown that 93% of Australians support the move.

[Resinence]

edit: "And the Northern Territory is not a stat that has allowed...

[Molyneux]

They're banning alcohol and pornography? That sounds a little bizarre to me. Alcohol makes sense, but what possible purpose could the banning of porn serve?

[weemadando]

The PM will ban alcohol and pornography in 60 target areas and suspended all welfare payments pending the medical examination of some 20,000+ children. Welfare payments will resume on the condition that parents use the money to provide adequate care of their children and also make sure they attend school. These policies will be enforced by the military and a "flood of police". The PM is also urging the other Australian states to take similar action in their own remote areas.

Not strictly correct.

Parents who refuse to participate in the programs or are otherwise impedimenting their children will have their payments quarantined. Meaning that they will be stopped, but assistance with basic amenities only will be provided until they are deemed to be acting in the best interests in their family again.

We've had e-mails at work (Centrelink) looking to recruit as many people as possible to go on multi-week stints to affected communities, as well as management level staff to go and be "town administrators".

As for banning porn, its a bit of a brainbug. The NT like the ACT has different laws to the rest of Australia which means nearly limitless potential for distribution. This is pretty much the morality rider that no one was going to block.

[mr friendly guy]

Critics have opposed the move on the grounds of racial discrimination, to which the PM has replied "I don't care what they're saying". Early polls have shown that 93% of Australians support the move.

Actually he actually says he wants to extend the same principle to the wider community. That is something I support, although I am sure people will forgive me if I have doubts that a politician's actions won't match his rhetoric.

The other thing is, along with this move, he also wants to take away certain land rights. I don't know much more detail than that, although I wonder why he needs to do that, and frankly given this is Howard I am somewhat suspicious of him.

[mr friendly guy]

Oh, and when I say extend the same principle to the wider community, I don't mean extending bans on alcohol and porn, but I am referring to the tougher welfare rules he plans to institute.

Apologies if my above post wasn't clear.

[Resinence]

The other thing is, along with this move, he also wants to take away certain land rights. I don't know much more detail than that, although I wonder why he needs to do that, and frankly given this is Howard I am somewhat suspicious of him.

Hmm, I hadn't heard of that... certainly something to worry about.

[Lusankya]

Good on Howard, and nuts to the people who are calling it "paternalistic", as though that means anything. They were saying the same thing about the community which was receiving benefits in exchange for making sure their kids washed their faces every day so that they wouldn't get easily preventable blindness. The community appreciated it as well. Their kids didn't get blind, and they got stuff.

Does anyone have any thoughts on how well it's going to work? I really can't see the situation improving much in the long run while they're still stuck in the remote communities. There's no way the government could provide adequate services to them, unless they find some way to create a decent economy. I always thought that tribal law was a crock of bull as well. Granted I only really hear about it when it goes bad, but it always struck me as an excuse for the influential men in the community to engage in thuggery.

[Walsh]

Howard should have done something many years ago. He has backflipped on just about every issue now that he finally faces a competent adversary, after so many years of Beazley the flaccid and that psycho Latham.

The only thing worse than Howard getting back into office, would be that sleazebag Peter Costello succeeding him when he retires, *shudders*.

This is at least some of what is planned:
- Alcohol ban.
- A minimum amount of welfare money must be spent on clothes, food, etc (I believe it was 50%, but don't quote me on that).
- School attendance will be made compulsory.
- Compulsory medical examinations for children.
- Porn ban.

Overall, I like what Howard is proposing. The porn ban is stupid, but it's a much lesser evil.

[Darth Wong]

They're banning alcohol and pornography? That sounds a little bizarre to me. Alcohol makes sense, but what possible purpose could the banning of porn serve?

Pandering to the fundie base. A "harmless" rider which people will no doubt dismiss as ineffective and not indicative of a worrisome trend, just as people thought Bush's "faith-based charity initiative" back in 2000 was nothing more than a handout to the fundies and not the beginning of an extremely destructive trend. They want to see if anybody will fight it. If nobody does, then it signals a passivity on the part of secularist forces that they will attempt to take advantage of in future.

[Resinence]

Thankfully elections are coming up soon and it looks like Little Jonny is not going to be re-elected. Well... unless this little stunt pushes his approval ratings up by a decent margin.

[hongi]

There's been a lot of criticism about how this is going to be implemented and I'm frankly confused about how they're going to enforce it and via what methods. I'm hearing a lot about the goals, but not the fine details.

[tim31]

They really need to get these kids educated. The ones who stick it out in school leave their communities and make something of themselves. Some of them return to try and help, but not enough. Get them into school, no matter what it takes.

Thankfully elections are coming up soon and it looks like Little Jonny is not going to be re-elected. Well... unless this little stunt pushes his approval ratings up by a decent margin.

Oh, he'll get back in. You'll see.

"And the Northern Territory is not a state that has allowed...

The Northern Territory isn't a state at all...

[weemadando]

Thankfully elections are coming up soon and it looks like Little Jonny is not going to be re-elected. Well... unless this little stunt pushes his approval ratings up by a decent margin.

Oh, he'll get back in. You'll see.

Tell me about it. At the current rate I'm going to have to vote Liberal. Simply because Labor are being absolutely unbelievable retards. They keep refusing to give any alternatives to gov't policy other than just shouting about them on Sunrise and the Today show.

Even listening to parliament sittings I don't hear any other party giving alternatives.

Nuclear power as a means of guaranteeing continuing power without a reliance on external sources?
Opposed because "we can't get a plant up and running for at least 10-25 years!", but no - they don't offer any form of alternative, just say that more enquiries are needed. So, you oppose nuclear power because it will take too long to come online, but you are not willing to commit to another source and want to have ANOTHER round of multi-year reports/inquiries? They're just opposing the gov't for oppositions sake, damn the outcome for the nation.

Indigenous reforms?
Opposed because its paternalistic. But no alternative offered. No matter how fluffy.

And don't get me started on Rudd's shameless pandering to militant unionism.

[Flagg]

The "paternalistic" argument is pretty much bullshit, but the "racist fucks" one seems pretty sound to me. You have a white majority government with a history of racist policy against the black minority population enacting discriminatory laws affecting only the minority. I mean obviousely the aboriginal peoples of Austrailia, being subhuman, are more susceptible to the evils of alchohol and pornography, while the white ubermenschen with their strong christian faith can easily handle those evils! It may not be the case, but that's how it looks to me.

I'd like some more information on all of these child abuse allegations, as well. Is this an actual problem, or something more along the lines of the McMartin witch hunts?

[Stark]

Thankfully elections are coming up soon and it looks like Little Jonny is not going to be re-elected. Well... unless this little stunt pushes his approval ratings up by a decent margin.

Don't be naive. That's WHY HE'S DOING THIS. It's the fantastic 'I utterly suck at everything and am a huge lying wanker, so LOOKY OVER HERE NAH NAH NAH I HAVE INVENTED A NEW PROBLEM'. He does this EVERY TIME. It always works.

Frankly, while aboriginal communities suck, this isn't going to change by throwing money and police at it. This is just a useless stunt.

[Diomedes]

The "paternalistic" argument is pretty much bullshit, but the "racist fucks" one seems pretty sound to me. You have a white majority government with a history of racist policy against the black minority population enacting discriminatory laws affecting only the minority. I mean obviousely the aboriginal peoples of Austrailia, being subhuman, are more susceptible to the evils of alchohol and pornography, while the white ubermenschen with their strong christian faith can easily handle those evils! It may not be the case, but that's how it looks to me.

I'll accept that it's racist if there are white communities where things are as bad, but nothing is being done about it. To be a sound argument you would need to provide evidence rather than characterisations of stereotypical anti-aboriginal racism, and since there arent any shithole white towns where things are as bad as this (At least, as far as I know, correct me if I'm wrong), evidence of a racial double-standard doesnt exist. I think Howard is racist, but for different reasons, and not on this issue. The pornography bit is bullshit, but I think it's more likely conservative Christian bullshit than racist bullshit.

[Diomedes]

Frankly, while aboriginal communities suck, this isn't going to change by throwing money and police at it. This is just a useless stunt.

I'm not as knowledgeable about our west island as you are, but what would you do in Howard's place? Everything I hear about these communities is absolutely horrifying, and it's stunning and embarrassing that it's happen in a first world country. Surely doing nothing is unacceptable, so if not this (or, this minus the pornography ban), then what?

[Lusankya]

Frankly, while aboriginal communities suck, this isn't going to change by throwing money and police at it. This is just a useless stunt.

I'm not as knowledgeable about our west island as you are, but what would you do in Howard's place? Everything I hear about these communities is absolutely horrifying, and it's stunning and embarrassing that it's happen in a first world country. Surely doing nothing is unacceptable, so if not this (or, this minus the pornography ban), then what?

Actually, given Australia, doing nothing could probably be seen as acceptable for most of the public. It's not as though anyone sees these communities, and so long as they [the aborigines] are out in whoop whoop, they're not lurching around drunk in our CBDs, which is a bit of a bonus.

To be frank, I sometimes wonder if there is a solution. The way I see it, the only way that anything could be done practically is to remove them from the communities into regions where there are services, but that opens up a whole other can of worms regarding land rights. Perhaps incentives could be offered to help them to run stations or some other kind of industry which would allow them to create some kind of economy out there (not just them selling mining rights, since that won't get the residents working, and will just import outside experts), but it's desert with shit soil, so I have no idea if that is even possible.

[Lusankya]

Frankly, while aboriginal communities suck, this isn't going to change by throwing money and police at it. This is just a useless stunt.

I'm not as knowledgeable about our west island as you are, but what would you do in Howard's place? Everything I hear about these communities is absolutely horrifying, and it's stunning and embarrassing that it's happen in a first world country. Surely doing nothing is unacceptable, so if not this (or, this minus the pornography ban), then what?

Actually, given Australia, doing nothing could probably be seen as acceptable for most of the public. It's not as though anyone sees these communities, and so long as they [the aborigines] are out in whoop whoop, they're not lurching around drunk in our CBDs, which is a bit of a bonus.

Ghetto edit: note, I don't support doing nothing, it's just an indication of the attitudes I've noticed. 99% of the time, nobody bothers even thinking about the aborigines unless they see one drunk in the park.

[Stark]

Anything that requires a complex, longterm solution and changing people's attitudes is way, WAY beyond Howard. He'll just say one thing, do another, and smarm his way to another election victory.

Aboriginal communities have a lot of problems, but 'respecting their culture' is probably one of them. Get this: some cultures allow things that suck. Some cultures venerate bad things. You can either pretend this isn't true, or you can try to change these attitudes - saying 'it's awful but we must respect their ways' is doubletalk bullshit. So let's send heaps of cops, right, to arrest them when they break the law by doing things that their communities accept for whatever reason. How's that supposed to help? Bolster the prison population?

[Lusankya]

Anything that requires a complex, longterm solution and changing people's attitudes is way, WAY beyond Howard. He'll just say one thing, do another, and smarm his way to another election victory.

Aboriginal communities have a lot of problems, but 'respecting their culture' is probably one of them. Get this: some cultures allow things that suck. Some cultures venerate bad things. You can either pretend this isn't true, or you can try to change these attitudes - saying 'it's awful but we must respect their ways' is doubletalk bullshit. So let's send heaps of cops, right, to arrest them when they break the law by doing things that their communities accept for whatever reason. How's that supposed to help?

It'll help by distracting the public from Rudd's high popularity figures. Who knows what will happen to the poor aborigines if Rudd gets into power? They might turn into gay atheist Muslim bagpipe playing mimes. Or, heaven help ups, Howard-Lite, er, Rudd might actually decide to continue trying to do something regarding the problem after the election's over, and that would just be awful.