Taleban rebels have captured a district in the southern Afghan province of Kandahar after days of fierce fighting.
Afghan forces say they pulled out of Myanishen district as a tactical move.
Correspondents say the militants have taken a number of districts over the past couple of years but have managed to keep control of only one.
Meanwhile, dozens are reported killed or injured in fighting in nearby Uruzgan province. One official says 60 civilians died, but Nato disputes this.
Separately, a man has been injured while trying to place an explosive device outside the main US military base in the country.
The US-led military coalition and the Interior Ministry say the device exploded prematurely outside the Bagram base. They say the man is now in Afghan police custody.
Airlift plea
Kandahar's police chief, General Esmatullah Alizai, admitted to the BBC that the Taleban were now in control of Myanishen.
He said the police had made a tactical move in withdrawing from the area but would recapture it very soon.
A Taleban spokesman said they had taken control of Myanishen after four days of fighting.
In the adjacent district of Chora in Uruzgan province fierce fighting between the Taleban and foreign and Afghan forces is reported to have continued for at least three days.
There are reported to be more than 100 wounded in the main provincial hospital.
Reports say staff there are unable to treat all the wounded people arriving, but still more of the injured are said to be at the scene of the fighting.
The head of the provincial council, Mawli Hamdullah, has called on President Karzai to send helicopters to airlift the injured to hospitals in Kabul.
He says he believes some 60 civilians have died in the clashes, as well as 30 Taleban, including a key commander, and 17 Afghan soldiers.
But the Nato-led force, Isaf, says it has no confirmation of any civilian deaths, saying rather that some 60 rebels have been killed, as well as a Dutch soldier.
Uruzgan's police chief gave much lower figures for civilian and army deaths but estimated the number of Taleban killed at 65.
He alleged that some ordinary people were killed by what he called American bombing.
Last year Chora district fell into Taleban hands for a few days before being retaken by government forces in a battle.
Plea for civilians
The latest violence came as aid organisations said that international and Afghan government forces had been responsible for the deaths of at least 230 civilians since the start of 2007.
"Excessive and disproportionate use of force is not only illegal and wrong but is also counter-productive," the Agency Co-ordinating Body for Afghan Relief (Acbar) warned.
Acbar, which brings together nearly 100 Afghan and international aid organisations, said such attacks created hostility towards international forces and made relief work more difficult.
Scores of civilians have also been killed by the Taleban and their allies this year.
The Acbar statement condemned such attacks by the armed opposition as "wanton acts of violence... which can never be justified".
This has been your routine *deep breath*
"Suck-It-You-Westerners-Who-Got-All-Triumphalist-About-How-Awesome-It Is-To-Be-Victorious-In-Afghanistan-Where-The-Soviets-Failed-Oh-Wow-We're-So-Skilled and Formidable"
It says it was the Afghans that pulled out and frankly they couldn't fight their way out of a paper bag. Naturally it would help matters if there was enough Western troops to go around.
M1891/30: A bad day on the range is better then a good day at work.
To be fair, the Brits couldn't do it a century ago, the Soviets didn't a two decades ago and now the US is finding out. I guess no one teaches history any more.
Admiral Valdemar wrote:To be fair, the Brits couldn't do it a century ago, the Soviets didn't a two decades ago and now the US is finding out. I guess no one teaches history any more.
I think the problem is that we're two countries west of where we should be focusing our attention...
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Correspondents say the militants have taken a number of districts over the past couple of years but have managed to keep control of only one.
Considering this has happened before, I doubt its anything major. Minor setbacks happen in wars all the time, and calling the war a loss because a shitty third world force defeated another shitty third world force for some small piece of territory is being pretty damn premature.
Cpl Kendall wrote:It says it was the Afghans that pulled out and frankly they couldn't fight their way out of a paper bag. Naturally it would help matters if there was enough Western troops to go around.
You know, I agree. It would be really nice if there were maybe 160,000 US troops lying around, not doing anything. I mean, what could we do that would make 160,000 veterans just show up, and at the same time make the rest of the world like us, stop throwing money down the shitter, and move the War on Terror forward instead of backward? There couldn't be any opportunity that would so conveniently help the US, could there?
A Government founded upon justice, and recognizing the equal rights of all men; claiming higher authority for existence, or sanction for its laws, that nature, reason, and the regularly ascertained will of the people; steadily refusing to put its sword and purse in the service of any religious creed or family is a standing offense to most of the Governments of the world, and to some narrow and bigoted people among ourselves.
One of my beefs with the Afghan mission is the refusal of the other NATO nations in country to move forces into the Kandahar region. But I understand that their populace doesn't really support the mission and they can't lend more of a hand without popular support. I don't expect them to go against the will of their people. Even though the Canadian contribution continues with only 26% popular support at this time. So really we shouldn't be there either.
But even with full NATO support the number of tropps would be a drop in the bucket compared to the full number from a discontinued Iraq mission.
M1891/30: A bad day on the range is better then a good day at work.
Admiral Valdemar wrote:To be fair, the Brits couldn't do it a century ago, the Soviets didn't a two decades ago and now the US is finding out. I guess no one teaches history any more.
You can say that again.
The Turks, Brits, Soviets, everyone who goes in there looking to take over the place gets kicked out.
You know I thought 'hey the US must know this, they'll go in there with a good level of manpower and win the day through economic muscle, turn the country right around by building huge levels of infrastructure, developing education, industry and all that good stuff'.
Then I found out GW Bush didn't read history books.
Then I found out he didn't read books, period.
Chris OFarrell wrote:You know I thought 'hey the US must know this, they'll go in there with a good level of manpower
Uhm no. Anyone who has tried to control afghanistan with shear warm bodies has lost. The place has a way of sucking up armies.
And looking at a map Linka, the location is right on the Pakistani border; which makes cross border raids relatively easy for the bad guys from safe Pakistani havens.
There's also the fact that the much vaunted Taliban Spring Offensive completely failed to materialize.
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Correspondents say the militants have taken a number of districts over the past couple of years but have managed to keep control of only one.
Considering this has happened before, I doubt its anything major. Minor setbacks happen in wars all the time, and calling the war a loss because a shitty third world force defeated another shitty third world force for some small piece of territory is being pretty damn premature.
Obviously, you're missing the whole point, which was that this war was declared over and America victorious, yet it is clearly not over.
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
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TheKwas wrote:When did American exactly claim victory in Afghanistan? Canada and it's NATO allies surely didn't.
(honest question by the way).
I've been trying various search combinations on Google with no luck. The closest thing I've found was Karzai declaring that major operations were over and that the war was winding down back in 2003. Amusingly enough, the only thing I've found from the US were conservative blogs attacking Pelosi for saying "The war in Afghanistan is over" and I'm pretty sure they're taking her out of context as well.
But anyway, the Taliban aren't a serious threat. There was a thread a while back about their top commander dying, and posters here were claiming it wouldn't matter or severely hamper them. However, as Shep pointed out, the Taliban's yearly big spring offensive simply faded away into a few pitiful border raids.
Hell, they were fighting police and it still took them four days to take that district. Just a couple weeks ago we drowned over forty of their troops when US forces caught a raiding party crossing a river.
The war was treated as a done deal when the Americans pulled out their forces and sent them to carry out Bush's megalomaniacal dreams of social transformation and glorious historical legacy in Iraq.
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
Darth Wong wrote:The war was treated as a done deal when the Americans pulled out their forces and sent them to carry out Bush's megalomaniacal dreams of social transformation and glorious historical legacy in Iraq.
Which was really stupid on their part and now we are bogged down in a war on two fronts that are not the kind we are trained or equipped to deal with. While the war could be won it would require a completly different approach.
