Just look at how our Defence Minister falls all over himself explaining how a missile shield would only affect North Korean missiles, not Chinese ones. Because, as we all know - China is our friend and ally. Just don't mention Taiwan.
Tony Jones' brings the heat wrote:Nelson discusses Aust-Japan security pact
Australian Broadcasting Corporation
Broadcast: 05/06/2007
Reporter: Tony Jones
Australian Defence Minister Brendan Nelson speaks to Lateline about upcoming regional security talks with Japan.
Transcript
TONY JONES: Well joining us now in our Tokyo studio is the Defence Minister, Dr Brendan Nelson. And thanks for being there.
DR BRENDAN NELSON, DEFENCE MINISTER: Good evening Tony, thanks for having me.
TONY JONES: Now in talks with your Japanese counterparts, do you describe this planned defence system as a missile shield?
DR BRENDAN NELSON: Well look, we have a number of things to discuss, Alexander Downer and I, with our counterparts here in Japan. The principle objective is how we can further develop our levels of cooperation, Tony, with mutual objectives throughout our region, whether it's maritime surveillance, peacekeeping, disaster relief or counter-terrorism. One of the issues on the agenda, and anyone familiar with Japan of course realises the importance of it to Japan, is that of anti-ballistic missile defence.
It's very important that people appreciate, as US Secretary Robert Gates said at the weekend from Singapore, that the missile defence capability, which Japan and the US is developing, is specifically for targeted threats that are in the region, it's not some sort of blanket missile-defence system, and principally of course at the moment, we all see North Korea, but there's also the concern about rogue states or terrorists principally acquiring this kind of capability. So I don't think that anyone should see it as some kind of threat. In fact I'd argue it's quite the opposite.
TONY JONES: Does this term 'missile shield' now have negative consequences, because that's how it's been described before?
DR BRENDAN NELSON: Well that's how it's been described, but Tony, it's described by people who are obviously ill-informed about what it's about. And look, all of us, Tony, would remember seeing in July last year, the Taepodong-2 missile launch from North Korea, which thankfully was not successful. But if it had been, that missile would have travelled up to 3,000 kilometres and then subsequently of course, a nuclear detonation in October.
From Australia's perspective, it's extremely important that we have security and stability, particularly in north-east Asia. Three of our largest trading partners - China, South Korea and of course Japan - are in this region, and we also have a responsibility to our alliance with the United States, that also has an alliance with Japan, and the Japanese people, which for 60 years now have been a free democracy, believing in the rule of law and all of those principles of humane behaviour that Australia shares, that country, Japan in particular, feels particularly vulnerable understandably from the rogue behaviour of North Korea. So from Australia's perspective, Tony, we support the development of a specific missile-defence capability. I've seen, by the way, elements of it this morning -
TONY JONES: Yes, I'll just interrupt you there for a moment. Tell us how it would work actually, and how long it would be until it would be in place.
DR BRENDAN NELSON: Well Tony, I don't think it would responsible of me to go into too much detail with you. All I can say to you is that what Japan and the United States, supported by Australia - we're not actively involved in it - but supported by Australia, is doing is putting in place a missile defence capability which is both land and sea-based, which will enable it to deal directly with threats which may come from North Korea and particularly, supporting a defensive posture for Japan in the event that there was some sort of missile strike to it.
Now anyone with any modicum of sense would think that is a perfectly reasonable thing to be doing. No one from Japan to my knowledge, and certainly not the United States, has described this as some kind of shield. And in that context, as I said earlier today, I noticed you had in your package - Australia is not interested in, nor are we in any way wanting to be a part of any kind of so-called strategy, which is targeted at containing China or any other country in our region.
And in fact next month, I will be travelling to Beijing - and also I might add, to India and Indonesia - but in Beijing to have discussions about a range of things, one of which will be to specifically reassure them that what Japan and the US is doing with as I say, the support of Australia, is perfectly reasonable given the rogue behaviour of North Korea, which we're all trying to rein in with diplomatic, economic and other measures.
TONY JONES: All right, let me confirm this: this is a missile defence system which could protect Japan and Australia from Korean ballistic missiles, but not from Chinese ballistic missiles?
DR BRENDAN NELSON: Well hang on Tony, you've added Australia to that. I mean what this is, is a missile defence capability which is specific to the protection of Japan, supported by the United States and also supported by Australia. What Australia is doing apart from working with the Japanese and US at an appropriate level, in supporting the development of the ballistic missile defence capability, what Australia is doing when we announced that a couple of years ago that we would build three air warfare destroyers in Adelaide, South Australia and the announcement of the build of those ships, the design is likely to be made in the next couple of months, this is an Aegis-equipped combat system that will go into these three destroyers, and that will give the government of Australia at some point in the future, the capacity to make a decision to put into those destroyers a mobile anti-ballistic missile defence capability.
I might also add in the context of that Telstra package you had earlier on, there are 3,000 jobs in the build of those destroyers, 1,500 of which will be in Adelaide, South Australia. So what Australia is doing within the limits of our economic, military, communications and other capabilities, Tony, is basically thinking about the future in terms of what contribution could we reasonably make and should we make to the anti-ballistic missile defence of one of our key partners and allies and that is Japan and the region generally in north-east Asia. But -
TONY JONES: All right, but okay -
DR BRENDAN NELSON: Under no circumstances -
TONY JONES: The region, when you say… -
DR BRENDAN NELSON: Under no circumstances Tony, is it some sort of… -
TONY JONES: I'm sorry, when you say the region -
DR BRENDAN NELSON: Under no circumstances -
TONY JONES: When you say the region generally - sorry about this - when you say the region generally, you're excluding Taiwan from that are you? Because Chinese officials have already said if this missile defence system is used in any way to protect Taiwan, they regard it as an act of aggression.
DR BRENDAN NELSON: Well I'm not prepared to discuss, as I said earlier Tony, any specific detail. But the anti-ballistic missile defence capability - which Japan, supported by the United States and with the concurrence of Australia is working on - is about Japan, and I'm not going to talk about any detail in relation to any other parts of the region or components of it.
TONY JONES: We're not after the missile launch codes, we're just trying to find out how this whole thing is going to work and will it work against any ballistic missile, North Korean or Chinese?
DR BRENDAN NELSON: Well Tony, I just come back to it last year, whatever the opposition - irrational as it may be - that some people might have to developing a defensive anti-ballistic missile capability, just reflect back to how we all felt living in Australia, watching that Taepodong-2 launching July last year. Imagine how the people of Japan and the countries immediately close to it felt about it, particularly when you think Tony that the Taepodong-2 type three - that's the next stage of that - can travel up to 12,000 kilometres.
We have a responsibility as a responsible nation in our region, and one with a responsibility to protect our interests in the region, economic in particular in north-east Asia, to do what we reasonably can to work with our key allies - the United States and Japan - to see that there is a capability to protect in particular, Japan in that region. And you would appreciate - I realise you've got to ask these sort of questions - but you'd appreciate, it would be not responsible of me to go any further into that.
TONY JONES: Well, it is a simple question though. Would it shoot down any ballistic missile, or only missiles that come from North Korea?
DR BRENDAN NELSON: Well it would have the capacity, Tony, to deal with missiles which come from particular places which are considered to be rogue states, and a particular threat in this case to Japan. And you would be concerned if a country such as Japan, supported by the United States and indeed with the support of Australia - at least in kind if nothing else - were not able to do that and prepare to do it.
And as is always it's also been said, Tony, ballistic missile defence is highly complex, technologically complex, extremely expensive and relatively fragile in terms of the certainty with which it can operate. But again, you go back to July last year and you just think to yourself, Tony, what countries in the world have the capacity and the potential to actually bring a missile down where it launched from North Korea - and there are very few - and foremost amongst them is the United States, and for that and many other reasons, Australia believes that this two plus two dialogue we're having with Japan and the trilateral strategic dialogue including also the United States, is very much in Australia's interests.
But it must not under any circumstances be seen to be some kind of undermining of our relationship which is mature, stable, strong and growing with China. And as the US Secretary for Defence Robert Gates told me privately at the weekend, and he also said publicly, it is specifically targeting those rogue states and we're talking about North Korea in particular, and I think for the US in other parts of the world, particularly also Iran and the possibility of asymmetric threats from non-state entities that may, God forbid, get hold of this kind of technology protecting us and our key interests from it. It's not about some sort of offensive destabilisation in our region or indeed in other parts of the world.
And as the US Secretary for Defence also said to me, as we just heard, President Bush say in relation to President Putin, it's - the offer is there from the United States in terms of the security, particularly across Europe to do so cooperatively and that's the spirit in which this has been developed here.
TONY JONES: Well if -
DR BRENDAN NELSON: Our key priority in the region, Tony, is to rein in North Korea.
TONY JONES: If the Chinese leadership regard this missile defence system in the same way as the Russian leadership has regarded the one the United States and Europe wants to put into eastern Europe, you're going to have a serious diplomatic problem on your hands aren't you?
DR BRENDAN NELSON: Well Tony it's - it is a concern if it's held, which is not based in the facts and the reality of what is actually being developed. And Australia's relationship with China is such that under no circumstances would we be wishing to be supportive of something which was destabilising to the security of the region.
Tony, what's destabilising - and this is something that at times I think some people in the media lose track of - what's destabilising our region is not the fact that Japan and the United States are developing an anti-ballistic missile defence capability for a rogue state like North Korea, it is the fact that we have the North Korean regime with missile development, nuclear development and detonation program and also the obscene and inhumane treatment of North Korean people that is being very tardy in complying with United Nation Security Council Resolution 1718. Tony, that's the real problem.
TONY JONES: Okay, but when you point at the media here, the media is looking at statements coming from senior Chinese military people who are worried about this missile defence system. We're not just making it up. And here's the point - should Australia's defence not look at worst case scenarios? And the worst case scenario in our region is a Chinese military invasion of Taiwan, and the question in the Chinese minds and in my mind right now is whether that military - whether that missile system could protect Taiwan under those circumstances?
DR BRENDAN NELSON: Well Tony, I'd also suggest that you listen to statements that are made by senior US, Japanese and Australian leadership and as far as any sort of missile defence capability being developed by Japan and the US having an extension to any other nation or indeed, any other part of it such as Taiwan, that's not something that I'm prepared to discuss publicly and I would expect that Japan and indeed the United States would discuss that privately. But I again can only emphasise that this defence capability is specifically in relation to North Korea. And with so many other things, if you start getting in the business of ruling something in or ruling something out, well the next thing I suspect, Tony, you'll get a map of the region and start to work through every part of it, and I'm not prepared to do it, I'm sorry.
TONY JONES: No, fair enough. Brendan Nelson, we thank you very much for taking the time to come in and talk to us tonight. Whether there are some things you can and can't talk about or not, thank you.
DR BRENDAN NELSON: Thank you, Tony.
