The ongoing debate over how much an educator's out-of-school behavior should affect his or her job has taken a decidedly youthful turn.
Teacher in training Stacy Snyder was denied her education degree on the eve of graduation when Millersville University apparently found pictures on her MySpace page "promoting underage drinking." As a result, the 27-year-old mother of two had her teaching certificate withheld and was granted an English degree instead. In response, Snyder has filed a Federal lawsuit against the Pennsylvania university asking for her education diploma and certificate along with $75,000 in damages.
So what, you're probably asking yourself, could have been in this picture that was so abhorrent as to make Stacy Snyder unworthy of teaching children? Was she force-feeding a 6-year-old bourbon from a bottle or spiking a middle school dance's punch? Not even close. The picture in question turned out to be of her at a Halloween party in 2005 dressed as a pirate and drinking an indeterminate liquid "from a plastic 'Mr. Goodbar' cup." But underneath was a caption which read "Drunken Pirate" and that caption apparently lead faculty to assume she was too "unprofessional" to educate young minds. Word was sent to the Millersville administration, and Snyder's "lifelong dream" of being a teacher ended less than a day before being achieved.
Now, clearly schools take underage drinking seriously. Their primary objective, after all, is the education and well-being of the students in their care, and as such they do whatever they see fit to achieve it. However, it seems unclear how keeping her out of the classroom because of an ambiguous photograph helps in that mission. Are public schools really attempting to keep students under the illusion that no members of their faculty have ever been under the influence of alcohol? If so would, say, a MySpace page of wedding photos with a faculty member making a toast, be grounds for termination?
Obviously this is an extreme example and there are limits and lines that must be drawn between acceptable and unacceptable, but it is difficult to imagine how Ms. Snyder's "Drunken Pirate" would fall on the inappropriate side. Given the shortage of teachers in America and the difficulty in recruiting quality applicants to the profession, it seems like the school may have compromised its primary objective for the sake of unrealistic zero-tolerance principals.
I find it rather disturbing how frequently I've been saying, 'That's beyond retarded' to myself in response to the various news stories that have been popping up here. Am I just noticing more, or has there been a sudden flood of stupidity in the last few years?
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I completely fail to understand the thought process that leads someone to think that a 27 year-old playing the drunken pirate at a Halloween party indicates anything about how she will behave in the classroom. I might understand if she was clearly wasted, lying amid scores of empty beer bottles. But this? This is bullshit.
Adrian Laguna wrote:I completely fail to understand the thought process that leads someone to think that a 27 year-old playing the drunken pirate at a Halloween party indicates anything about how she will behave in the classroom. I might understand if she was clearly wasted, lying amid scores of empty beer bottles. But this? This is bullshit.
It's called a moralistic busybody on a powertrip. I'll bet dollars to donuts the idiot's a Republican, too.
even for republicans and extreme fundamentalists this is out there. I might understand if it was in Utah, or some mormon town somewhere, but even then...
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Huh. I can't help but find this a little amusing. My mom worked for my old HS (private Catholic) and the faculty would go out for drinks and what have you on occasion. No one got hammered drunk, but I'm sure some people went away a little tipsy. Now, my school had some pretty lame policies, but even they weren't dumb enough to equate perfectly legal (and relatively tame) behavior outside of the classroom with the way one would conduct him/herself in the classroom.
Anyways, if she's twenty-seven now and the picture is from '05, how does that promote underage drinking? That's a big leap to link that to promotion of underage drinking.
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Fuck, the stories I could tell about 2 teachers I know personaly. I also know that they're some of the best teachers I've met when on the clock. Bloody busy bodies.
phred wrote:even for republicans and extreme fundamentalists this is out there. I might understand if it was in Utah, or some mormon town somewhere, but even then...
Oh no, this is not "out there" for them at all. Not by a longshot.
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So the school kept her money and denied her the degree she fulfilled all of the requirements to get? Why haven't the police intervened, because this is clearly theft.
We pissing our pants yet?
-Negan
You got your shittin' pants on? Because you’re about to Shit. Your. Pants!
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He who can, does; he who cannot, teaches.
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phred wrote:even for republicans and extreme fundamentalists this is out there. I might understand if it was in Utah, or some mormon town somewhere, but even then...
Oh no, this is not "out there" for them at all. Not by a longshot.
Indeed. In the Elementary Ed program I'm in, they practically hammer into us would-be teachers that if we ever so much as purchase an alcoholic beverage, it should be at a store miles away and consumed in the safety of our own homes. Otherwise people might think ill of us.
phred wrote:even for republicans and extreme fundamentalists this is out there. I might understand if it was in Utah, or some mormon town somewhere, but even then...
No, not even then. I live among them and they aren't that fucktarded. They really don't give a shit unless you come in smashed or tell the kids how fun it is to sneak beer.
Sig images are for people who aren't fucking lazy.
Oni Koneko Damien wrote:Am I just noticing more, or has there been a sudden flood of stupidity in the last few years?
I think there has been more stupidity, indeed. You see, us humans love having things under control. But doing this has become exponentially more difficult as of late, so all the control freaks out there are scared. And the only way they know to fix problems is to set up yet another regulation, to forbid yet another thing. It doesn't even occur to them that an absurd decision which can't be enforced (because it's absurd) might as well not exist. Otherwise they'd realize the simple truth that controlling anything beyond yourself is unnatural.
Honorable Mention wrote:Huh. I can't help but find this a little amusing. My mom worked for my old HS (private Catholic) and the faculty would go out for drinks and what have you on occasion.
This is entirely anecdotal, but I've encountered a number of teachers who are pretty heavy drinkers. Of course, like everyone else, they were smart enough to do it off the clock.
I did summer work at a clambake club for a while, and the management was always ecstatic when a teachers' union would schedule a party. The bar tab alone would pay for the cost of the bake.
You know, if they really think that pirate costumes promote underage drinking, then by that logic, the university would have to ban all copies of "Pirates of the Caribbean" and all other similar movies. Makes no fucking sense, if you ask me. Besides, as stated previously, it's not "promoting" anything, esp. as she's neither shown absolutely passed-out-plastered, nor is she showing pictures of underage kids drinking. WTF.
So you think she's the first person to be fired for no reason at all? What's unusual about this is that she was a public servant and only the private sector is this arbitrary and abusive by firing employees for the most trivial slight.
Big Orange wrote:So you think she's the first person to be fired for no reason at all? What's unusual about this is that she was a public servant and only the private sector is this arbitrary and abusive by firing employees for the most trivial slight.
She wasn't fired, she was denied her degree in education... didn't you read the post?
haas mark wrote:
She wasn't fired, she was denied her degree in education... didn't you read the post?
She wasn't fired outright but her career was still seriously curtailed for no real reason at all and a disproportionate reprimand over negligible "misconduct" wouldn't be out of place in some Christian charity shop (bad personal experience).
haas mark wrote:
She wasn't fired, she was denied her degree in education... didn't you read the post?
She wasn't fired outright but her career was still seriously curtailed for no real reason at all and a disproportionate reprimand over negligible "misconduct" wouldn't be out of place in some Christian charity shop (bad personal experience).
...She wasn't fired in ANY capacity. She was denied her eligibility to even be considered for a career in the educational department as a whole.
Obviously I think this is idiotic, I doubt anyone will argue with that, but on the general subject of teachers with weird behaviour outside school and even inside school. From my experience the best teachers that I've had have also tended to be the weirdest and have done far worse than this girl.
Flagg wrote:So the school kept her money and denied her the degree she fulfilled all of the requirements to get? Why haven't the police intervened, because this is clearly theft.
During my college years, one of my english professors railed against how some people considered college a 'transaction', and gave a lot of emotionally charged reasons why it was so much more than that.
To this day, I find the evidence stacked firmly against him, and especially applicable in this case. She essentially laid down thousands of dollars to be included in a contract. She'd do certain work, they'd 'pay' her in the form of a degree which gives her access to certain other fields of work.
As long as there was no stipulation against that specific activity in the contract, as written out, would nullify it, she should have a clear-cut case for a lawsuit.
Gaian Paradigm: Because not all fantasy has to be childish crap. Ephemeral Pie: Because not all role-playing has to be shallow. My art: Because not all DA users are talentless emo twits. "Phant, quit abusing the He-Wench before he turns you into a caged bitch at a Ren Fair and lets the tourists toss half munched turkey legs at your backside." -Mr. Coffee
Reads the article... Thinks... Remember's growing up with two parents as teachers... Blinks...
Right because Teacher's Never Drink, I imagine all those times growing up I saw teachers at my house getting VERY drunk and singing, and other such things where just crazy ass dreams.
They never stumbled down to a Taxi at 2am because it was half term or a birthday. To turn up the next day to collect the car. Again crazy ass dreams.
As long as she broke no laws, then who cares what she did in her spare time?
From a review of the two Towers.... 'As for Gimli being comic relief, what if your comic relief had a huge axe and fells dozens of Orcs? That's a pretty cool comic relief. '
I think what pisses me off more than the actual incident that took place in this story is the batshit insane standards and expectations we seem to have for teachers in this country. We expect them to be babysitters, security guards, police, and now apparently chaste teatotalling saints as well as actual teachers. As long as they don't fuck the students, preach to them, or come in drunk or stoned, I couldn't give a fuck what they do in their private time.
We pissing our pants yet?
-Negan
You got your shittin' pants on? Because you’re about to Shit. Your. Pants!
-Negan
He who can, does; he who cannot, teaches.
-George Bernard Shaw
