The Borg and KE shielding...

[Robert Walper]

If and when the Borg Collective deployed KE shielding upon their drones when engaging the Empire, what effect would this have upon both the large scale war(Borg vs Imperial) and small scale war (drone vs starmtrooper)?

[Dark Primus]

Depends how much energy their shields can take before failing.

[Robert Walper]

Good question...no clue. They do not normally employ KE shielding because on a threat vs effciency ratio any threat hasn't been greater. Species 8472 is a side issus since a single one of them can rip through a starship hull and breach a ship-created forcefield(ST:VOY "Hunters").

[Howedar]

No effect at all. Borg ships are weak enough that boarding would never occur.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

They do not normally employ KE shielding because on a threat vs effciency ratio any threat hasn't been greate.

The Borg don't normally employ KE shielding because they don't have KE shielding.

[Robert Walper]

No effect at all. Borg ships are weak enough that boarding would never
occur.

Evidence?

Federation starship utilize torpedoes with 200isoton yields, which is the equivelant of 540megatons. Efficency and blast radius included, that's about a 171.52 megaton directed blast. The E-D fired it's deflector dish weapon at the Borg cube in "Best of Both Worlds" which was greater than it's weapon output. Considering only the E-D's torpedo full spread capability, 5 torpedoes hitting a cube would dish out 857.6 megatons of energy at the Borg cube. It withstood the deflector dish weapon which is supposed to be more powerful than the E-D's full offensive capability, including phaser attacks, which I didn't.

[Pablo Sanchez]

Evidence?

Federation starship utilize torpedoes with 200isoton yields, which is the equivelant of 540megatons. Efficency and blast radius included, that's about a 171.52 megaton directed blast.

Source?

[Robert Walper]

The Borg don't normally employ KE shielding because they don't have KE shielding.

Worf was stopped by a KE shield in "Best of Both Worlds".

Janeway, Tuvok and Torres were stopped by KE shields in "Unimatrix Zero".

The Borg have KE shielding technology. That is indisputeable. They simply do not employ it, because as I said, with threat vs efficency ratio, the threat ratio hasn't exceeded the efficency of not using it.

In other words, KE shielding in power consuming, as seen in ST:TNG "A fistful of Datas". And power consuming KE shielding is less efficent for the Borg than simply losing a drone and either reabsorbing it into the Collective or reanimating it with nanoprobe technology.

[Robert Walper]

Source?

In ST:VOY "Scorpion", the Seven of Nine read off the Voyager torpedo inventory, stating that the torpedo's maximum yield was 200 isotons. This also fits with ST:TNG "Skin of Evil" torpedo blast seen on the planet's suface, which was estimated to be similar to the range of the 200isoton yield.

1isoton = 2.56megatons

These figures come from the tech manual, which is also Mike Wong's source.

[Mr Bean]

Robert Walper you forgeting the inate problems with Kinetic shielding on Drones


Problem one, Remeber that old physics Rule? For every action there is a re-action? As Wong Recently pointed out that the KE shielding would not be able to asorb all the force of any KE attack meaning some would leak through or affect the implants generating it, And when your talking about internal metel compointes being shoved a few inchs back.... Well thats kinda a baad thing...

[Howedar]

No effect at all. Borg ships are weak enough that boarding would never
occur.

Evidence?

Federation starship utilize torpedoes with 200isoton yields, which is the equivelant of 540megatons. Efficency and blast radius included, that's about a 171.52 megaton directed blast. The E-D fired it's deflector dish weapon at the Borg cube in "Best of Both Worlds" which was greater than it's weapon output. Considering only the E-D's torpedo full spread capability, 5 torpedoes hitting a cube would dish out 857.6 megatons of energy at the Borg cube. It withstood the deflector dish weapon which is supposed to be more powerful than the E-D's full offensive capability, including phaser attacks, which I didn't.

171.5 metatons < 200 gigatons

Now, thats a *single* heavy turbolaser, one out of 64 on an ISD-2.

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

Too bad The E-D doesn't use type VI torpedoes!

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

I can't believe this newbie. He uses the 2.56 megaton per isoton from the TM, but ignores that 's from the 64 (max) megaton torpedoes the E-D uses!

[Pablo Sanchez]

Worf was stopped by a KE shield in "Best of Both Worlds".

A KE shield mounted on a one-of-a-kind Borg drone.

The Borg have KE shielding technology. That is indisputeable. They simply do not employ it, because as I said, with threat vs efficency ratio, the threat ratio hasn't exceeded the efficency of not using it.

That's just plain ludicrous. Any space-faring civilization would be able to produce projectile weapons in large numbers. Star Trek's seeming obsession with energy weapons aside, the Borg would be much more likely to encounter slug-throwers than any other weapon. If they attempted an invasion of Earth right now, they'd get beaten HORRIBLY, because any farmer with a pump-action shotgun and a pickup could cut his way through hundreds of Drones.

Roman legionnaires armed with short swords and pilum would beat the living shit out of the Borg. If the Feds would mount bayonets on their
faggy-ass rifles, then the Feds could easily repulse drone attacks. The only reason the Borg drones are considered a threat is because the Feddies are apparently too chicken to turn the rifle around and wield it as a club.

In other words, KE shielding in power consuming, as seen in ST:TNG "A fistful of Datas". And power consuming KE shielding is less efficent for the Borg than simply losing a drone and either reabsorbing it into the Collective or reanimating it with nanoprobe technology.

So you're saying that KE shields are not cost effective and the Borg don't use them, despite the obvious effectiveness of melee combat against their moronic zombies. Then what's the point of this thread? If the Borg don't consider it important to guard against the most ancient of all weaponry now, why would they do it just because they met the Empire?

[Ender]

If and when the Borg Collective deployed KE shielding upon their drones when engaging the Empire, what effect would this have upon both the large scale war(Borg vs Imperial) and small scale war (drone vs starmtrooper)?

This was addressed in one of the borg vs lightsabre threads.

Basically, KE shielding in drones is a very bad idea. See, with kinetic energy impacting the shield, it doesn't disapate like it would from an energy source. Instead it pushes the shield and object inside it a tiny bit. Now it's not enough that this is a problem with vehicles or starships. But it is a huge problem for the borg. Since the shield would be projected from the nanites in their cells, the force would be exerted on the nanites/implants. And since they are alot smaller, they will move easier. As a result, a good hard strike (say from a projectile gun) would kill the drone anyways because all the nanites would be torn through several cells, resulting in alot of internal damage.

Good in concept, bad in application.

[HRogge]

Worf was stopped by a KE shield in "Best of Both Worlds".

A KE shield mounted on a one-of-a-kind Borg drone.

No, a KE shield built into a ship, similar to the Federation internal security fields.

[SirNitram]

Doesn't the newbie know 'Isoton' means 'One ton of TNT'?

And Skin Of Evil was an exploding shuttle, IIRC.

[Pablo Sanchez]

No, a KE shield built into a ship, similar to the Federation internal security fields.

I thought he was referring to a scene in that show where Worf attempts to smash Locutus, but is repulsed by a shield. I could be wrong...

[HRogge]

I thought he was referring to a scene in that show where Worf attempts to smash Locutus, but is repulsed by a shield. I could be wrong...

Maybe I had the wrong episode in mind...

[The Yosemite Bear]

*Enabling Smartass jerk mode*
Borg KE shields are based on the Hozman Shield from the Dune universe.
Any energy weapon discharged at a borg employing it would result in a fusion Explosion. Two any slow moving attack would penetrate as would a gyrojet round as it can apply constant force.
*Disableing Smart ass mode*

[2000AD]

Why do people still use the term Isoton? IIRC it means 10e0 , i.e 1. So why write stuff like 200 isotons when you might as well just write 200 tons?

[SirNitram]

Why do people still use the term Isoton? IIRC it means 10e0 , i.e 1. So why write stuff like 200 isotons when you might as well just write 200 tons?

Sounds pretty.

[The Yosemite Bear]

Better yet Nanotons, ooooh they are, are using the ever hot Nano buzzword, I bet that means packing a ton's worth of explosion into every molecual.

No, it means that it has 1/100,000,000th of the explosive power of a ton of TNT. or Didily/Squat.

[Patrick Ogaard]

The existence of tactical drones, referred to and shown several times in Voyager episodes, tends to indicate that the Borg are aware of the problems of drones employing kinetic energy shielding. The tactical drones are equipped with reinforced skeletal structures and external plating, and large plates of armor are a classically effective means of dealing with kinetic energy. How good that kind of armor plating would be against force pikes or light sabers, however ...

The information provided in the Voyager episode "Raven" is speculative and provided by obviously ill-informed anthropolgists with the will-to-survive of depressed lemmings, but it does imply that tactical drones are relatively rare models reserved primarily for duties like guarding Borg queens, with some tactical drones being farmed out to duty aboard cubes. Tactical drones also appear to be equipped with an appendage specialized for slowly and clumsily chopping opponents apart, but that could be my inadequate memory talking.

Basically, then, the Borg use of personal force fields seems consistent with Mr. Wong's analysis of how force fields would have difficulty dealing with kinetic energy attacks. The instances of kinetic force field effects being deployed by the Borg involve force fields projected from solid structural elements of Borg installations, so that the projection units could transfer the kinetic energy to a more resistant structure, such as a cube.

The reinforced skeletal structure and armor plating of a tactical drone might actually be able to support a kinetic energy force field, but a simple combination of energy shielding and armor plating might be just as effective and less expensive.