SirNitram wrote:And what of the soul in these transactions? Does your technological device trap it and store it like a sorcerer's wand, or is it lost, leaving the empty body to forever wander, lost and useless?
(Name the source of the quote and get a cookie!)
#1: In ST, it's assumed that people do not have souls.
#2: If they do exist, then maybe they are like a person's life force in SW... temporarily displaced for a short time, as soon as the physical body is reassembled down on the surface the soul automatically gravitates towards it and re-enters it.
No Shit Sherlock. I'm glad you pointed this out to us. To think, all this time we thought transporters were safer than say, commercial aircraft. Boy were we wrong. You deserve a metal for your discovery.
The most basic assumption about the world is that it does not contradict itself.
SirNitram wrote:And what of the soul in these transactions? Does your technological device trap it and store it like a sorcerer's wand, or is it lost, leaving the empty body to forever wander, lost and useless?
(Name the source of the quote and get a cookie!)
#1: In ST, it's assumed that people do not have souls.
#2: If they do exist, then maybe they are like a person's life force in SW... temporarily displaced for a short time, as soon as the physical body is reassembled down on the surface the soul automatically gravitates towards it and re-enters it.
Just to yank out a random quote on the subject...
TROI: Wait! I'm feeling... yes, it's the captain! The captain only. He's out there alone!
RIKER: The entity... has it abandoned him?
TROI: No, the combination just wasn't possible out there. The Captain's in trouble, sir; we must beam him back!
RIKER: Beam him back as what? He's nothing but energy now.
Manic Progressive: A liberal who violently swings from anger at politicos to despondency over them.
Out Of Context theatre: Ron Paul has repeatedly said he's not a racist. - Destructinator XIII on why Ron Paul isn't racist.
SirNitram wrote:And what of the soul in these transactions? Does your technological device trap it and store it like a sorcerer's wand, or is it lost, leaving the empty body to forever wander, lost and useless?
SirNitram wrote:
Just to yank out a random quote on the subject...
TROI: Wait! I'm feeling... yes, it's the captain! The captain only. He's out there alone!
RIKER: The entity... has it abandoned him?
TROI: No, the combination just wasn't possible out there. The Captain's in trouble, sir; we must beam him back!
RIKER: Beam him back as what? He's nothing but energy now.
Since this shows a "soul" in startrek is something like [insert technobabble] energy, it would be transported too.
"You know, I was God once."
"Yes, I saw. You were doing well, until everyone died."
Bender and God, Futurama
No Shit Sherlock. I'm glad you pointed this out to us. To think, all this time we thought transporters were safer than say, commercial aircraft. Boy were we wrong. You deserve a metal for your discovery.
SirNitram wrote:And what of the soul in these transactions? Does your technological device trap it and store it like a sorcerer's wand, or is it lost, leaving the empty body to forever wander, lost and useless?
(Name the source of the quote and get a cookie!)
#1: In ST, it's assumed that people do not have souls.
#2: If they do exist, then maybe they are like a person's life force in SW... temporarily displaced for a short time, as soon as the physical body is reassembled down on the surface the soul automatically gravitates towards it and re-enters it.
Just to yank out a random quote on the subject...
TROI: Wait! I'm feeling... yes, it's the captain! The captain only. He's out there alone!
RIKER: The entity... has it abandoned him?
TROI: No, the combination just wasn't possible out there. The Captain's in trouble, sir; we must beam him back!
RIKER: Beam him back as what? He's nothing but energy now.
SirNitram wrote:And what of the soul in these transactions? Does your technological device trap it and store it like a sorcerer's wand, or is it lost, leaving the empty body to forever wander, lost and useless?
(Name the source of the quote and get a cookie!)
Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri.
Make it an Oreo.
*Gives the newbie an Oreo*
The secret ingredient is Evil.
Manic Progressive: A liberal who violently swings from anger at politicos to despondency over them.
Out Of Context theatre: Ron Paul has repeatedly said he's not a racist. - Destructinator XIII on why Ron Paul isn't racist.
No, I don't think that's accurate. Picard, when he died, and they resurrected him with the transporter, had to have his life force or energy or something re-enter into the transporter's buffer in order to be resurrected. They were worried that he would not remember. Clearly they have some sort of soul, or stand-in soul, and it actually would have prevented his copy from living, but that appears to make no sense, given the messages about Data and what it is to be human. I hated that episode.
"Sometimes I think you WANT us to fail." "Shut up, just shut up!" -Two Guys from Kabul
Latinum Star Recipient; Hacker's Cross Award Winner
"one soler flar can vapririze the planit or malt the nickl in lass than millasacit" -Bagara1000
Soul, life force, whatever doesn't enter transporter design - its physics, not religon. The continuity problem remains - you go into one, you die, just nobody notices, except you. Remember the numerous episodes that transporters have gone wrong and people have either been split, duplicated or merged - no one has any ethical issues about undoing the mess, even killing perfectly valid entites in the process. An the the issue of who remembers what isn't even considered - then Tuvok and Neelix got stuck together afterwards did they both have memories of the event, or was the merged personality just wiped out?
Imagine in a transporter malfunction two identical people were created (didn't this happen- I forget) - if soul is involved where does it come from for the second person? No soul involved just a very efficent disintegration and construction (not reintegration!) device that nobody ever asks too many questions about.
The soul, from a rational point of view is nothing more than the continuity of consciousness. If it is disturbed, you are dead, and when you die, your soul vanishes (or goes to another place, it can't be proven).
Since the soul disappearing means death, you are dead. If an identical copy is still running around doesn't matter, this being has it's own continuity of consciousness, ie soul.
if not splitting you into good and evil halfs, it turning you into children. sometimes it results in an exact copy of someone. and then you could end up being completely vaporized never to return.
i am an engennering major and i know for a fact that the number of accident with transporters that occur would immidiatly cause the goverment today to demand a redesign of the unit or it's complete retirement
Hapan Battle Dragons Rule!
When you want peace prepare for war! --Confusious
That was disapointing ..Should we show this Federation how to build a ship so we may have worthy foes? Typhonis 1
The Prince of The Writer's Guild|HAB Spacewolf Tank General| God Bless America!
Isolder74 wrote:the transporter is always having some problem:
if not splitting you into good and evil halfs, it turning you into children. sometimes it results in an exact copy of someone. and then you could end up being completely vaporized never to return.
i am an engennering major and i know for a fact that the number of accident with transporters that occur would immidiatly cause the goverment today to demand a redesign of the unit or it's complete retirement
NTM the holodeck.
"Sometimes I think you WANT us to fail." "Shut up, just shut up!" -Two Guys from Kabul
Latinum Star Recipient; Hacker's Cross Award Winner
"one soler flar can vapririze the planit or malt the nickl in lass than millasacit" -Bagara1000
In my FanFic I use the transporter to explain why the ST galaxy doesn't have the force. It strips it from them over many uses.
It's why my colonists, frontiersmen and outworlders may have some force ability, though they are not trained. Its also why they can actually fight back, cause a colonist has a gun which he can aim to kill mall rats. errr, swamp rats!
And also why the Feds, Klings and Roms don't have any force at all, but are basically like the rocks Luke lifts in ESB.
The only Fed who does is a crusty old Vice Admiral (Longshore) who has only ever transported 17 times in his life. He hates the damn things and is teased about it. People liken his fear to our time's fear of flying. By the time of the story Longshore is in his mid fifties and what would have been one of the most powerful Jedi of either galaxy is limited to mere moments of "pre-cognition". But I had his initial power levels somewhere between Luke and Yoda - and it only took 17 times for it to be intuition or essentially feelings.
I transport to school, to the store, to the library, back home, to the video game parlor, to the basketball court and finally home again. All in one day. 7 times as an ave federation child. (its my fanfic, write you own!) Anyway, this is why the Force no longer exists in ppl in my story. The disassembly and reassembly kills it.
Isolder74 wrote:the transporter is always having some problem:
if not splitting you into good and evil halfs, it turning you into children. sometimes it results in an exact copy of someone. and then you could end up being completely vaporized never to return.
i am an engennering major and i know for a fact that the number of accident with transporters that occur would immidiatly cause the goverment today to demand a redesign of the unit or it's complete retirement
How many episodes + movies have you seen where it was having a problem?
if not splitting you into good and evil halfs, it turning you into children. sometimes it results in an exact copy of someone. and then you could end up being completely vaporized never to return.
Let's not forget the incident where it combined two beings into one.
How many episodes + movies have you seen where it was having a problem?
Too many. Nevermind the incidents mentioned above where the transporter was downright dangerous.... the transporter system has also proven to be extremely unreliable. If you fart, the gas will block the transporter signal.
Of course, to be fair, ST's shuttlecraft have always been just as dangerous... let's face it, the Federation shouldn't even bother going exploring until they can learn how to install a "No Crash" function in their smaller vessels.
Isolder74 wrote:the transporter is always having some problem:
if not splitting you into good and evil halfs, it turning you into children. sometimes it results in an exact copy of someone. and then you could end up being completely vaporized never to return.
i am an engineering major and i know for a fact that the number of accident with transporters that occur would immidiatly cause the goverment today to demand a redesign of the unit or it's complete retirement
How many episodes + movies have you seen where it was having a problem?
Kirk gets turned into good and evil halves(the enemy within)
1
Turns Ricker, picard, Gianan, and some others into kids(Rascals)
2
Ricker gets an exact clone of himself in one episode(Second Chances)
3
in Star Trek The Motion Picture 3 people are killed by the transporter
4
Nelix and Tuvok are Fused togather(Tuvix)
5
plus many more!
just two of these incidents would be enough for today's Government to demand a safety inquiry
Hapan Battle Dragons Rule!
When you want peace prepare for war! --Confusious
That was disapointing ..Should we show this Federation how to build a ship so we may have worthy foes? Typhonis 1
The Prince of The Writer's Guild|HAB Spacewolf Tank General| God Bless America!
Riker's cloning, btw, is an indicator the original subject is indeed killed and reproduced. Transporters should be outlawed. Well, they will be, after the Empire has utterly crushed the Milky Way powers!
There also evidence against it being a cloning process - the fact that Picards "energy" was needed to bring him back, something travels from site to site thus this energy survives the transport process.
TheDarkling wrote:There also evidence against it being a cloning process - the fact that Picards "energy" was needed to bring him back, something travels from site to site thus this energy survives the transport process.
so Riker's copy and the "original" contain only half of that "energy"?
Hapan Battle Dragons Rule!
When you want peace prepare for war! --Confusious
That was disapointing ..Should we show this Federation how to build a ship so we may have worthy foes? Typhonis 1
The Prince of The Writer's Guild|HAB Spacewolf Tank General| God Bless America!
I'm not entirely sure if I want to be in a cloning machine that can trap my soul. Think of the misuse of that capability. Shifting a human's soul into an animal... Or worse...
Manic Progressive: A liberal who violently swings from anger at politicos to despondency over them.
Out Of Context theatre: Ron Paul has repeatedly said he's not a racist. - Destructinator XIII on why Ron Paul isn't racist.
When we start talking about the Soul we get into rather odd territory but I do wonder why these question never occur to the races that use the transporers, for example we know the Bajorans believe in a soul yet they have no concerns.
We know that Humans still believe in souls because in Measure of a Man one of the question raised is wether Data has a soul also Picard isnt shocked that an after life and God exist (Ref Tapesty) until he finds out its Q.
Therefore the magical energy could be what they define as a soul and I would agree the ability to trap someones soul in a device is chilling.
