Hellsing vs Tsukihime

Shinova · Post by **Shinova** » 2004-02-18 02:32am

This topic didn't get off too well over at SB so I'm gonna see if I can give it a spin on this board:

Alucard vs Arcueid. A different vampire from Hellsing vs Arcueid. Alucard vs a different vampire from Tsukihime-verse. Whatever. Point being, which side's vampires are stronger?

For the unknowledged, here's the leading info site for English speakers on Tsukihime: http://www.geocities.com/max3075/terms.htm

As for Hellsing, I assume it's popular enough for most people to be familiar with it.

EDIT: I'm not sure if this is allowed, but here's raws for chapter 5 and 6 of the manga.

http://www.angelfire.com/hero/nrvnqsr/

The manga depicts the characters and their strengths closer to how they were in the original game, which is the highest on the canon ladder (if there is to be one). Chapter 3 has some more action but that's only on stuff like BT or such. I could post some pages if anyone really wants to see them.

PS: If a mod thinks the link with the RAWS breaches the site's TOS, you can edit it out.

Guardsman Bass · Post by **Guardsman Bass** » 2004-02-18 04:57pm

I'm putting my money on Alucard.

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2004-02-18 06:17pm

Well... do we ever know how powerful Arucied is BEFORE she uses up most of her magic reviving herself?

Symmetry · Post by **Symmetry** » 2004-02-18 07:33pm

I'd say that Alucard is somewhat more powerful than Nero but somewhat less powerful than Arcueid. From Hellsing, I seem to remember Alucard pulling off something a lot like a reality marble like the 27 can, and even pulling others into it. That, his TK, and his blessed guns are probably enough to take out those of the 27 we've seen, but I don't think that would be enough to let him take Arcueid.

All in all, though, I'm impressed at how well the Hellsing vampires and Tsukihime vampires fit together. They seem to have the same sorts of abilities, and their best have similar power levels, so much so that I could believe in Alucard really being one of the True Ancestors from Tsukihime

Shinova · Post by **Shinova** » 2004-02-18 09:56pm

DPDarkPrimus wrote:Well... do we ever know how powerful Arucied is BEFORE she uses up most of her magic reviving herself?

Not too much I'm afraid. We do know that True Ancestors are generally stronger than typical vampires. And that Arcueid wiped out all of the True Ancestors when she went nuts some 800 or so years before Tsukihime.

Do we know what Alucard is like when all of his restrictive stuff is off?

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2004-02-19 01:16am

I just know that if I ask for numbers, its goign to be pointless.

Shinova · Post by **Shinova** » 2004-02-19 02:23am

Connor MacLeod wrote:I just know that if I ask for numbers, its goign to be pointless.

You mean like strength and such? I heard you've already done stuff for Alucard, so for Arcueid:

Anime: Enough TK to force a man into a concrete wall and leave a crater in it. Screenshot I will provide if anyone needs it. Can make someone "explode", more telekinetics it looks like.

Manga: Blows about a meter-wide hole through a conrete wall about between a half-foot and foot thick by swiping her hand. Same action left claw-shaped grooves in the conrete ground about half-foot deep at its deepest. Hits a wolf-creature with her hand, sending it something like between forty to fifty, maybe sixty, feet straight up into the air.

I mean yes, this is a fantasy realm, not a sci-fi one. Numbers aren't exactly in mind when stuff like this is written. Or maybe you could specify what you need and we could try and provide.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2004-02-19 04:30am

Shinova wrote:
Connor MacLeod wrote:I just know that if I ask for numbers, its goign to be pointless.
You mean like strength and such? I heard you've already done stuff for Alucard, so for Arcueid:

Anime: Enough TK to force a man into a concrete wall and leave a crater in it. Screenshot I will provide if anyone needs it. Can make someone "explode", more telekinetics it looks like.

Easier to measure the momentum imparted by the mass of the body and the speed with which it is flung into the wall.

Manga: Blows about a meter-wide hole through a conrete wall about between a half-foot and foot thick by swiping her hand. Same action left claw-shaped grooves in the conrete ground about half-foot deep at its deepest.

You're expecting me to do the calcs?

Hits a wolf-creature with her hand, sending it something like between forty to fifty, maybe sixty, feet straight up into the air.

Depends on mass and velocity, again.

I mean yes, this is a fantasy realm, not a sci-fi one. Numbers aren't exactly in mind when stuff like this is written. Or maybe you could specify what you need and we could try and provide.

How else are we supposed to figure things out? Running numbers isnt that hard.

Companion Cube · Post by **Companion Cube** » 2004-02-19 06:18am

I'm going to give it to Seras.*

But from what i've seen, it would be a fairly close match-up between Aruceid and Alucard, assuming Aruceid can do that regenerating trick as much as she needs? (All my knowledge of Tsukihime comes from glancing at that page)

*Celes/Ceres/Victoria, etc

Shinova · Post by **Shinova** » 2004-02-19 06:23am

Connor MacLeod wrote:*snip*

I suck at physics, but maybe some day I can try working out some basic stuff.

And about the regenerating thing 3rd impact mentioned: In one point in the original game Shiki and Ciel fight the weakened Arcueid during night time. And during the night, Arcueid had no death lines. Shiki had to "kill" nature first (he stabbed into the air), then the death lines started appearing on Arcueid.

Also, how fast is Alucard? Judging from some parts of the manga and anime, it seems as if when she really wants to, Arcueid can move at blinding speed but only rarely, it seems.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2004-02-19 04:14pm

Shinova wrote:
Connor MacLeod wrote:*snip*
I suck at physics, but maybe some day I can try working out some basic stuff.

Its not that complicated. Momentum is mass x velocity. Measuring the velocity is simply a matter of scaling (it doesnt even have to be that precise - if you have a scaling marker, you can do it.) For example, in Hellsing's ep 12, we see a FREAK throw a Hellsing trrooper into a wall. The trooper is between two cars, which we can use as a scaling reference (most cars are between 2-3 meters in length) By measuring how long it takes the body to pass along the length of the car, we can estimate the speed. Mass can be easily figured out by assumimng a typical human range of 60-80 kilograms (for a male, I suppose. Maybe ~10 kilos lighter for a female, depending on size. A much larger human male might be 90-100 kilos, even.)

And about the regenerating thing 3rd impact mentioned: In one point in the original game Shiki and Ciel fight the weakened Arcueid during night time. And during the night, Arcueid had no death lines. Shiki had to "kill" nature first (he stabbed into the air), then the death lines started appearing on Arcueid.

Not having seen this series, I cant comment.

Also, how fast is Alucard? Judging from some parts of the manga and anime, it seems as if when she really wants to, Arcueid can move at blinding speed but only rarely, it seems.

"blinding speed" doesnt tell us much (I'm guessing its subsonic, though.) Alucard's acceleration is on the order of tens to hundreds of gees. (Only Walter and Luke Valentine displayed this actual acceleration, in ep 6, but Alucard has the telekinetic ability to achieve it based on ep 13 and is certainly stronger than either Walter or Luke.) Even low end freaks like Leif and JEssica were able to achieve several gees of accecleration, minimum (based on the fact thatin the manga, Jessica ran out of the house and covered 500 meters in a couple of seconds - I base the time on the simple fact Alucard heard Jessica open the window and turned, then alerted Seras to her escape - it couldn't have taken all much more than a couple of seconds.)