A thought on Queen Amidala

Spartan · Post by **Spartan** » 2002-09-24 10:22am

I have been re-reading the AOTC novelization and a thought occured to me. Having an elected queen is a really clunky concept. Having her elected at fourteen is even worse.

Wouldn't it have been better if Amidala had inherited the throne at a young age, and then abdicated the throne because the events in TPM inspire her to a higher calling. To not only serve her own pepole but the entire galaxy as well?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 2002-09-24 11:08am

That is a good point. I would think that there were more qualified people on Naboo that could have been elected as their leader. Or perhaps in the Star Wars galaxy all members of royalty are elected?? Unless someone has a better explanation, your point just exposes one of the faults of TPM. The concept of democracy is also an interesting topic in Star Wars. According to GL, democracy is voting in a dictator for a certain length of time. That isn't what "real" democracy is anyways. Only in a fictional universe would free people elect a 14? year old girl to be the leader of a planet, especially when there are more qualified people around. It just isn't very believable. Perhaps that is why the Senate didn't really take her that seriously?

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2002-09-24 11:14am

I hate the idea of electing a 'monarch', it just doesn't sit right with me!

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2002-09-24 12:00pm

Lucas' idea that the people of Naboo have a thing for the innoncence of use still makes the election of a 14 year-old stupid.

The whole age ranges of Amidala and Anakin in TPM are stupid. It would have worked better with Anakin being in his late teens (like Luke) and Amidala in her early twenties. Much more believable all around.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 2002-09-24 12:31pm

I had high hopes for Episode II. Even though it wasn't what I hoped it would be it was still a good movie.

Kelly Antilles · Post by **Kelly Antilles** » 2002-09-24 12:36pm

To this day I still question as to why the citizens of Naboo "elected" a child to be their "queen". The title of Queen may just be honorific and that's what they call their leader. Naboo does seem like it is royal-based. They may have had a ruling family at one time and then chose to shake it up a bit by "electing" a ruler, but still call them by the honorific title of Queen or King.

Padme did give up her reign for a "higher calling."

Now, why a 14 year old was "running" for Queesn is beyond me. That's just... weird.

Then again, you have to remember, Leia was a Senator at 16. Maybe they just don't have age restrictions and their children are much smarter than others. Who knows?

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2002-09-24 03:28pm

My feeling is that way back when, Naboo was ruled by a monachy. When they applied for membership in the Republic, or maybe when the were awarded or promoted to the capital of a sector, they changed to a more democratic goverment. It also could have been a PR move while being considered for the capital of a sector, to move to a more democatic way of goverment.

Why they want children to rule, I can not tell you.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2002-09-24 05:31pm

I kinda thought that the Queen was really just a figurehead.

GrandMasterTerwynn · Post by **GrandMasterTerwynn** » 2002-09-24 05:33pm

Spartan wrote:I have been re-reading the AOTC novelization and a thought occured to me. Having an elected queen is a really clunky concept. Having her elected at fourteen is even worse. :?

Wouldn't it have been better if Amidala had inherited the throne at a young age, and then abdicated the throne because the events in TPM inspire her to a higher calling. To not only serve her own pepole but the entire galaxy as well?

I don't remember that bit of the novelization, but did it specifically say that she was elected as Queen by the general populace? It could well have been an assemblage of the royal families (if any) who got together to resolve a dispute on lines of succession.

Other alternative theories:

"Queen" is a traditional honorific gifted to female leaders on Naboo, possibly going back to the times where it really was an inherited monarchy. Though the government is some sort of republic, the honorific has persisted. Of course, that brings up all sorts of questions regarding the intelligence and sanity of people on Naboo. Why elect a fourteen year old girl?

It is also possible that Naboo has a political caste. A group of people, for whom, a lifetime of education, indoctrination, and training goes into preparing them for a political life. A potential canidate is selected at a relatively young age. She's rare enough, and important enough that extreme measures are taken to protect her life (bodyguards that also serve as body doubles, for instance.) Yet she's young and vulnerable enough that her coterie of adult advisors can both evaluate what sort of leader she'd turn out to be . . . and remove her if she's not satisfactory. This would explain why they can have a very young Queen who can easily make the transition to the position of a Senator to the Republic . . . she's probably been trained and educated in politics since she was old enough to crawl and babble coherently.

Just a couple of thoughts.

Spartan · Post by **Spartan** » 2002-09-24 05:37pm

Padme did give up her reign for a "higher calling."

True, in the novelization said that she served two terms and that the people of Naboo were willing to change their constitution so that she could remain queen. She refused the honor. But the age problem is worse than that because novel says she first served as 'Apprentice Legislator' and then a 'Senatorial Advisor' before being elected queen. Assuming she spent at least a year in each position, then she first enter public service at 12!

Now, in TPM Amidala had advisors, but the final decisions were all hers to make. At least for the most part she had the sense to accept advice from people who were more experienced. But what if she hadn't? The bottom line is that she was far to young, to be thrust into such a position, or do they consider you an adult at 12 on Naboo?

Evil Jerk · Post by **Evil Jerk** » 2002-09-24 05:56pm

Perhaps Naboo is a super elitist democracy.
Sure, you can get positions of power and civil service, but only if you come from certain families, and if there's a shortage, they'll pick children before resorting to using the common peasantry.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-09-24 08:03pm

The only reason to elect a child like that is explained properly in EpII ICS. It has to do with cultural values that believe adults to always be corrupt, and therefore only children should serve on the throne.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 2002-09-24 08:42pm

Master of Ossus,

If that were the case, why wern't children serving in the defense forces of Naboo? Why were all of her advisors adults? If the Naboo feel that way about adults why weren't children running the government completely? It reminds of a tv show I saw where children acted like the adults and the adults acted like the children. I don't remember the name of it, but it wasn't very realistic. Neither is having a 14 year old elected to be a planetary leader. Unless Amidala was a "super" child. Sort of like that Dr. Zee (or something like that) from Battlestar Galactica 1980. ::shivers::

It would make more sense if Amidala had inherited the throne. There are plenty of historical figures that became monarchs at a young age. Perhaps the term "elected" is being used very loosely.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-09-24 08:59pm

The Naboo recognize that wisdom and knowledge come with age, they just appear to believe that young, uncorrupted monarchs who are unknowledgeable are actually better than older, wiser, but corrupt ones. Note that Padme always keeps her handmaidens with her, for her protection, but also for their input. According to the EU, they are also very bright and clever individuals. Thus, it appears that the Naboo attempt to gain the best of both worlds by having children make important decisions and adults assist them with their input.

Incidentally, there was a Voyager episode with a species that lived its lives in "reverse." They looked just like humans, but they aged backwards. It was pretty stupid, but that might be what you're referring to.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2002-09-24 09:17pm

It is also possible that Naboo has a political caste. A group of people, for whom, a lifetime of education, indoctrination, and training goes into preparing them for a political life. A potential canidate is selected at a relatively young age. She's rare enough, and important enough that extreme measures are taken to protect her life (bodyguards that also serve as body doubles, for instance.) Yet she's young and vulnerable enough that her coterie of adult advisors can both evaluate what sort of leader she'd turn out to be . . . and remove her if she's not satisfactory. This would explain why they can have a very young Queen who can easily make the transition to the position of a Senator to the Republic . . . she's probably been trained and educated in politics since she was old enough to crawl and babble coherently.

Given the similarities between Nubian and Indian society (they're there, you just have to look for them) and India's having a caste system, this could be a possibility.

A provision encouraging (or guaranteeing) the election of young girls to the position of Queen is probably written into the Nubian Constitution, since it seems to be the norm.

Spartan · Post by **Spartan** » 2002-09-24 09:18pm

It would make more sense if Amidala had inherited the throne. There are plenty of historical figures that became monarchs at a young age. Perhaps the term "elected" is being used very loosely.

That’s the way I wish it had been, but the novel says she was elected to two terms.

The only reason to elect a child like that is explained properly in EpII ICS. It has to do with cultural values that believe adults to always be corrupt, and therefore only children should serve on the throne.

True, but obviously that’s just Dr. Saxton trying to clean up, an idea that is clearly flawed. In real life in every case where a child ascended to the crown they were little more than pawns. The real power resided in who every controlled the child. No, fourteen year old would give a damn about politics. Amidala, should have been far more interested in whatever would be the equivalent of a boy-band in the SW universe.

A far more dramatic take would have been, some thing along the story of Elizabeth I. A young girl being thrust into far more power and responsibility than a child could possibly be ready for. Instead what we got is...dare I say it? The SW equivalent of Wesley Crusher!

Okay that’s going to far I like the Amidala character, she just deserve better.

Enlightenment · Post by **Enlightenment** » 2002-09-24 09:30pm

Spartan wrote:No, fourteen year old would give a damn about politics. Amidala, should have been far more interested in whatever would be the equivalent of a boy-band in the SW universe.

That rather depends on the 14 year old. I certainly had a fair interest in and understanding of big-picture national-level (Canadian) politics at that age. Now, I certainly couldn't have been Prime Minister (doing politics is vastly different from keeping an eye on politics) but I did have a clear understanding of the public process of governace.

Spartan wrote: Okay that’s going to far I like the Amidala character, she just deserve better.

Deserving better is pretty much a constant for all female characters in scifi and in most SF...

Post by **Kuja** » 2002-09-24 09:39pm

It's also possible that Palpatine engineered her rise to power to further his own plans.

Spartan · Post by **Spartan** » 2002-09-24 10:51pm

I don't remember that bit of the novelization, but did it specifically say that she was elected as Queen by the general populace? It could well have been an assemblage of the royal families (if any) who got together to resolve a dispute on lines of succession.

Here are some quotes:
(ATOC - novelization p. 147-148)

"I was elected Queen."

"Partly because I scored so high on my education certificate, but for the most part because of my conviction that reform was possible. The people Naboo embraced that dream wholeheartedly, so much so that my age was hardly an issue in the campaign. I wasn't the youngest Queen ever elected, but now that I think back on it, I'm not sure I was old enough."

"I'm not sure I was ready." ~ Amidala

"The people you served thought you did a good job. I heard they tried to amend the constitution so that you could stay in office." ~ Anakin

"Popular rule is not democracy, Anakin. It gives the people what they want but not what they need. And truthfully, I was relieved when my two terms were up." ~ Amidala

Well now from the above the following points are clear:

1) The Naboo have elected world leaders even younger than 14 years old.
2) Padame's election was by popular vote. No royal families, or back office deals here. She actually had to campaign.
3) It seems that the election was by popular vote, as the their are three references to 'the people'.
4) Since her platform was so popular she won despite there being older and probably more experienced opponents.
5) There was clearly so large political crisis in need of reform, that catapulted her into office.
6) the Naboo have a constitution that contains term limits for there leader.

Now here a thought was this political crisis engineered by Palpatine? Did he put her in office?

Post by **Kuja** » 2002-09-24 10:56pm

No, but it's possible that he could have gotten someone to nominate her. Or he could have 'dealt with' any rivals she might've had..........just a thought.

GrandMasterTerwynn · Post by **GrandMasterTerwynn** » 2002-09-25 02:10am

Spartan wrote:
I don't remember that bit of the novelization, but did it specifically say that she was elected as Queen by the general populace? It could well have been an assemblage of the royal families (if any) who got together to resolve a dispute on lines of succession.
Here are some quotes:
(ATOC - novelization p. 147-148)

"I was elected Queen."

"Partly because I scored so high on my education certificate, but for the most part because of my conviction that reform was possible. The people Naboo embraced that dream wholeheartedly, so much so that my age was hardly an issue in the campaign. I wasn't the youngest Queen ever elected, but now that I think back on it, I'm not sure I was old enough."

"I'm not sure I was ready." ~ Amidala

"The people you served thought you did a good job. I heard they tried to amend the constitution so that you could stay in office." ~ Anakin

"Popular rule is not democracy, Anakin. It gives the people what they want but not what they need. And truthfully, I was relieved when my two terms were up." ~ Amidala

Well now from the above the following points are clear:

1) The Naboo have elected world leaders even younger than 14 years old.
2) Padame's election was by popular vote. No royal families, or back office deals here. She actually had to campaign.
3) It seems that the election was by popular vote, as the their are three references to 'the people'.
4) Since her platform was so popular she won despite there being older and probably more experienced opponents.
5) There was clearly so large political crisis in need of reform, that catapulted her into office.
6) the Naboo have a constitution that contains term limits for there leader.

Now here a thought was this political crisis engineered by Palpatine? Did he put her in office?

Ick! So it seems that "Queen" is solely an honorific title. Though it does argue favorably for the existence of a political caste on Naboo, i.e:

"Partly because I scored so high on my education certificate, but for the most part because of my conviction that reform was possible. The people Naboo embraced that dream wholeheartedly, so much so that my age was hardly an issue in the campaign. I wasn't the youngest Queen ever elected, but now that I think back on it, I'm not sure I was old enough."

This would explain why Palpatine would want to instigate a political crisis on Naboo (if he really did.) How much of this conviction was really Amidala's . . . as opposed to how much of it was the result of her advisors insinuating things into the extremely impressionable mind of a young child?

I can see where Palpatine would be coming from: Put a personable, but young and naive figurehead into power (even if Amidala was born into the political caste, how much 'real-world' experience is that certificate of education going to get her?) while you've got the people who yield the real power in your back pocket.

GrandMasterTerwynn · Post by **GrandMasterTerwynn** » 2002-09-25 02:15am

Spartan wrote:
It would make more sense if Amidala had inherited the throne. There are plenty of historical figures that became monarchs at a young age. Perhaps the term "elected" is being used very loosely.
That’s the way I wish it had been, but the novel says she was elected to two terms.

The only reason to elect a child like that is explained properly in EpII ICS. It has to do with cultural values that believe adults to always be corrupt, and therefore only children should serve on the throne.
True, but obviously that’s just Dr. Saxton trying to clean up, an idea that is clearly flawed. In real life in every case where a child ascended to the crown they were little more than pawns. The real power resided in who every controlled the child. No, fourteen year old would give a damn about politics. Amidala, should have been far more interested in whatever would be the equivalent of a boy-band in the SW universe.

A far more dramatic take would have been, some thing along the story of Elizabeth I. A young girl being thrust into far more power and responsibility than a child could possibly be ready for. Instead what we got is...dare I say it? The SW equivalent of Wesley Crusher!

Okay that’s going to far I like the Amidala character, she just deserve better.

Nonono, if she were the equivalent of Wussley Crusher, she'd be real obnoxious, and she'd invent five impossible things before breakfast. As it is, she's actually pretty . . . . stupid. She's naive, and she's got almost no experience with the world outside of politics. Amidala is a good character, but she's no Weasley Crusher.

Compare her to Wussley again and we'll hurt you . . . with big sharp objects.

Spartan · Post by **Spartan** » 2002-09-25 10:03am

Compare her to Wussley again and we'll hurt you . . . with big sharp objects.

Ohhhh...kinky!

Your right of course Amidala's nothing like WC. She has considerable fighting skill after all. Hmmm...Padme' vs Wesley Crusher.?!?!?

Post by **Kuja** » 2002-09-25 02:02pm

And it must be broadcast throughout the Federation, so that Wesley's humiliation is COMPLETE!

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2002-09-26 03:27am

The Spartan "Democracies" Elected Kings for a life term. As some deceisions had to be left in the hands of one man, and one man alone.

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

A thought on Queen Amidala

A thought on Queen Amidala

Re: A thought on Queen Amidala