Borg, Voyager, Species 8472 and the Q

Dennis Toy · Post by **Dennis Toy** » 2002-08-09 01:26am

Im back, been busy, i have 2 things on my mind i want to discuss.

The Voyager Episode Scorpion has a new and powerful enemy called Species 8472. You all would know that they come from fluidic space and they were tearing the borg up. The borg needed Voyager's help and eventually, nanoprobes were developed. I think neither were trying hard enough to kill Species 8472. Did anyone on either side think of Chemical Warfare. Species 8472 has the most densly coded DNA in the galaxy and the most powerful immune system. I doubt these would withstand the effects of a nerve toxin or acid. Immune System can only fight biological threats. Chemical Threats would bypass the immune system and devistate the cells. Densly Coded DNA or not,

What about Brute force like using explosives or fire. I doubt that Densly coded DNA could withstand these elements.

And onto the Q, in the first TNG episode "Encounter at Farpoint" Q boasted that he would destroy humanity because humanity was "greviously savage" he was bested by Commander Riker in one scene. He appeared every season playing childish tricks on the enterprise crew. In the last episode it seemed like TNG was a q trick when he spoke of everything that was wrong with the crew. Like wasting time with Data's search for humanity or Troi's "Psychobabble" He said he would destroy humanity yet he didn't. Personally i think the Q was bullshitting, he can't or won't. I believe he can't, because his powers aren't all that great. We seen he could only freeze time, reverse time, create objects, transport objects and transmutate people. I think these are the work of technology and not Onmipotence.

Any comments on the above comments...?

Mr. B · Post by **Mr. B** » 2002-08-09 01:30am

I'm sure the Empire has some really nasty bio weapons stored away. It would likely work but we need to more about 8472s immune system to be sure. I can't clearly recall those Voyager episodes.

And maybe Q is the ST equivalent of a First one(ie Vorlons) and he just chooses human form.

Jim Raynor · Post by **Jim Raynor** » 2002-08-09 04:02am

Both 8472 and the Q are overrated. I find it interesting that every unknown or poorly understood thing in ST is automatically assumed to be all powerful. The 8472 fleet in Scorpion was several thousand strong, and they managed to destroy only a handful of planets in a 5 month war with the Borg. Somehow, Trekkies assume that they have a fleet of millions or billions of ships and can wipe out worlds by the hundreds. It's also comple BS that every Trekkie thinks that nanobots are the only way to take them out, just because their armor was to strong for Voyager's or the Borgs' weapons.

The general perception of Q is even worse. Like you said, all we've seen are a few small-scale tricks and occasional time-travel, all easily explainable by existing Trek technology, albeit more advanced than the Federation's. For some reason, this is taken to be proof that Q can wipe out the Empire with a snap of his fingers. Besides, wasn't there a Voyager episode in which a Q admitted that their race wasn't as omnipotent as believed, and that they just seemed that way because of they were so much more advance than the Feds? And what about the time when the Voyager crew were able to threaten several Q? Q weapons or not, why couldn't they just kill the Voyager crew instantly with a thought?

SPOOFE · Post by **SPOOFE** » 2002-08-09 05:25am

Besides, wasn't there a Voyager episode in which a Q admitted that their race wasn't as omnipotent as believed, and that they just seemed that way because of they were so much more advance than the Feds?

Actually, they were far LESS advanced than the Feds. Hell, they were far less advanced than US. They were on par with Civil War era United States...

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2002-08-09 05:32pm

As to S-8472, kill or stun one, bring him into a research facility, and have a repeat of the Krytos mess? I don't care how good their immune system is, fighting off Krytos will distract them from actual combat, giving the Imps that much more of an edge.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-08-09 05:53pm

Species 8472 has been known to be able to defeat the Borg, which previously had been shown to be significantly more powerful than most other Trek species. Guess what? Just because they can beat the Borg doesn't mean that they can take on the Empire. That is crappy logic. Think about it. Forest Gump knew that the sky was blue and not much else. We know that he was not as smart as the average person. We also know that a Einstein is smarter than Forest Gump. Does that mean that the average person is as smart as Albert? Of course not! Species 8472 is not as powerful as the Empire, by quite a considerable margin. Otherwise, why is it worried that the wimpy Federation would be able to defeat it?

As far as Q goes, Q is obviously very powerful. Many of his abilities appear to be magical, but as we know, any technology, sufficiently advanced.... Q is clearly not omnipotent. In fact, the entire Q continuum is not omnipotent. They are powerful, yes, but not omnipotent. There is a difference.

seanrobertson · Post by **seanrobertson** » 2002-08-09 06:09pm

Both 8472 and the Q are overrated. I find it interesting that every unknown or poorly understood thing in ST is automatically assumed to be all powerful.

Jim,

The ignorant seem to assume as much about all unknowns. It's
amazing how many people will drop to their knees in massive
appeals to ignorance, truly; e.g., the people who think Iraq's WoMD
program is going so well because we *don't know how it's progressed*.

The 8472 fleet in Scorpion was several thousand strong, and they managed to destroy only a handful of planets in a 5 month war with the Borg.

True. Eight planets, to be exact.

However, I should point out that we don't know how long the Eights
had been invading the Delta Quadrant, or how dedicated they were
from the outset. We *know* 9 ships can do a planet in, regardless
of the means (and even without the chain-reaction, it does appear
to be a planet-exterminator if not a planet-shatterer).

Somehow, Trekkies assume that they have a fleet of millions or billions of ships and can wipe out worlds by the hundreds.

They can. Seven said as much in "The Killing Game." But millions of
ships? I'm with you. That might be ridiculous. While it is the case
that the Eights "occupy a realm all alone," there's nothing to indicate
they have a kazillion ships w/ which to wage war!

It's also comple BS that every Trekkie thinks that nanobots are the only way to take them out, just because their armor was to strong for Voyager's or the Borgs' weapons.

That's right, especially because the Borg WERE able to hurt the Eight bioships. Over time, even a small Hirogen ship was able to severely
damage a wounded bioship. Enough raw power WILL blow a bioship
away.

The general perception of Q is even worse. Like you said, all we've seen are a few small-scale tricks and occasional time-travel, all easily explainable by existing Trek technology, albeit more advanced than the Federation's. For some reason, this is taken to be proof that Q can wipe out the Empire with a snap of his fingers. Besides, wasn't there a Voyager episode in which a Q admitted that their race wasn't as omnipotent as believed, and that they just seemed that way because of they were so much more advance than the Feds?

Actually, no--not that I recall. And to be fair, I think you should re-think
"small scale tricks."

And what about the time when the Voyager crew were able to threaten several Q? Q weapons or not, why couldn't they just kill the Voyager crew instantly with a thought?

Ugh...God, that was such a bad episode...

Honestly, I don't know.

Sean
Analyst http://www.babtech-onthe.net/

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2002-08-09 08:33pm

Then again, Q, Mr. Omnipotent himself, couldn't deal with Guinan. After all, he attempted to clear out Ten Forward, but failed to pop her away and then when he saw her he told the captain immediately to get her off the ship because she was incredibly dangerous. They looked like they were about to do mortal kombat or something with magic and everything. Normally, we would assume that Guinan was really an insanely powerful race, yet they got stomped by the Borg, which just aren't that impressive next to the Q.

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2002-08-10 04:56am

yes, but we know from the voyager episode with Q and his son that he doesn't want the borg provoked.