Life for 'honour killing' father

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Oni Koneko Damien
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Post by Oni Koneko Damien »

the wicked prince wrote:
Master of Cards wrote:
the wicked prince wrote:I would sentence him to torture and public execution
Prince could you please not go down the Dennis Toy route? No big man me beat up baddie! is not a good way to +1 yourself its a good way to get you da boot.
How bout you mind your own business instead of playing moderator

Run along now, little boy
How about you read the rules you worthless troll? MoC was giving you good advice, the last couple dozen times dipshits came in with stupid "I'm an internet-badass, check out the size of my balls!" posts, they were also rapidly slapped down by the administration and general populace alike.

I have no moderator or administrative power here, but I can tell you with complete honesty that it would be a *whole* lot less painful for you to simply take our advice and shut the fuck up rather than whine until a mod gets involved.
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Master of Cards
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Post by Master of Cards »

Prince go to the Senate and look for the Poll on Banning Dennis Toy. Now
1) Bring up his posts
2) Bring up your posts
3)compare
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chitoryu12
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Post by chitoryu12 »

Master of Cards wrote:Prince go to the Senate and look for the Poll on Banning Dennis Toy. Now
1) Bring up his posts
2) Bring up your posts
3)compare
Did Dennis try to claim that he thought torture and murder were "the ways for justice to be served"? I only recall when he said that it was fun to say that shit. I'll go check.
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Post by Edi »

the wicked prince wrote:
Master of Cards wrote:
the wicked prince wrote:I would sentence him to torture and public execution
Prince could you please not go down the Dennis Toy route? No big man me beat up baddie! is not a good way to +1 yourself its a good way to get you da boot.
How bout you mind your own business instead of playing moderator

Run along now, little boy
How about you shut the fuck up and crawl back into whatever hole you came from? You are worthless spammer and when people actually give you good advice based on the fact that other users are facing ban polls for similar stuff, the correct response is not to start trolling. But then again, you're an asshat. I'll be most pleased to haul you up in front of the Senate for being a useless waste of bandwidth the next time you slip up.
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Post by Master of Cards »

chitoryu12 wrote:
Master of Cards wrote:Prince go to the Senate and look for the Poll on Banning Dennis Toy. Now
1) Bring up his posts
2) Bring up your posts
3)compare
Did Dennis try to claim that he thought torture and murder were "the ways for justice to be served"? I only recall when he said that it was fun to say that shit. I'll go check.
I was considering both were what are termed Torture porn and are frowned upon after the rash of pretty much me too!! +1!?!? posts in N&P
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Post by sketerpot »

Now, I've heard of honor killing, so the death part I can "understand". But what the hell is the deal with the rape and torture? How do they rationalize that? Were they just sick bastards looking for an excuse?
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Post by General Zod »

sketerpot wrote:Now, I've heard of honor killing, so the death part I can "understand". But what the hell is the deal with the rape and torture? How do they rationalize that? Were they just sick bastards looking for an excuse?
Someone posted it earlier. "You're acting like a two-bit whore, so you will be treated like one." is the rationalization behind it. Even if it's stupid as fuck.
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Post by Durandal »

sketerpot wrote:Now, I've heard of honor killing, so the death part I can "understand". But what the hell is the deal with the rape and torture? How do they rationalize that? Were they just sick bastards looking for an excuse?
This is the culture whose solution to rape is to stone the rape victim to death. Honestly, with fucked up customs like that, wouldn't it be more surprising if they didn't rape and torture a girl for having a boyfriend?

But we mustn't judge their culture just because it's different, of course. :roll:
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Post by PeZook »

sketerpot wrote:Now, I've heard of honor killing, so the death part I can "understand". But what the hell is the deal with the rape and torture? How do they rationalize that? Were they just sick bastards looking for an excuse?
It's a complex psychological problem that is the result of a culture that pretty much breeds sociopathy. Some of the rural (and many urban) Muslim communities operate based on law that is completely artificial, runs contrary to some of the natural instincts and indulges others ; And in addition have all the problems inherent in small rural communities.

So, being brought up in:

a) Harsh living and poverty
b) A restrictive culture with many taboos and hang-ups, especially relating to sexuality
and
c) In a judgemental, small and tight-knit community

...has a higher chance of producing a disturbed individual with a lot of sexual hang-ups. In addition, in some places it is encouraged for men to treat their women as cattle - a lifelong exposure to such a culture breeds contempt for women, which is a dangerous combination when you are repressed and sexually frustrated. And, since such a situation is perfectly normal for Muslim men from these retardedly conservative societies, many dangerous sociopaths can be ignored, unlike in many other cultures, where they are identified and branded as such.

So, yeah. "You are going to be treated as a little filthy whore!" is a perfectly valid explanation for this act, from a psychological point of view (obviously, not from a moral one).

Take note, also, that all things considered, such heinous crimes are still fairly rare, even in Muslim communities. Women are treated horribly, yes, but it takes another level of sociopathy to ignore some very strong human instincts and do all that to your own kin. It's not like it doesn't happen in Western countries, too.
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Post by Pint0 Xtreme »

I can't believe how poorly the police handled the situation. She asked for help four fucking times before she was killed. This was so unnecessarily tragic.
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Post by Fingolfin_Noldor »

PeZook wrote:It's a complex psychological problem that is the result of a culture that pretty much breeds sociopathy. Some of the rural (and many urban) Muslim communities operate based on law that is completely artificial, runs contrary to some of the natural instincts and indulges others ; And in addition have all the problems inherent in small rural communities.

So, being brought up in:

a) Harsh living and poverty
b) A restrictive culture with many taboos and hang-ups, especially relating to sexuality
and
c) In a judgemental, small and tight-knit community

...has a higher chance of producing a disturbed individual with a lot of sexual hang-ups. In addition, in some places it is encouraged for men to treat their women as cattle - a lifelong exposure to such a culture breeds contempt for women, which is a dangerous combination when you are repressed and sexually frustrated. And, since such a situation is perfectly normal for Muslim men from these retardedly conservative societies, many dangerous sociopaths can be ignored, unlike in many other cultures, where they are identified and branded as such.

So, yeah. "You are going to be treated as a little filthy whore!" is a perfectly valid explanation for this act, from a psychological point of view (obviously, not from a moral one).

Take note, also, that all things considered, such heinous crimes are still fairly rare, even in Muslim communities. Women are treated horribly, yes, but it takes another level of sociopathy to ignore some very strong human instincts and do all that to your own kin. It's not like it doesn't happen in Western countries, too.
It does feel very tribalistic. Essentially, what this woman has done is break the tribe's laws and thus must be punished in way that fits the crime as determined by the tribe elders.

Given how insular the muslims from the middle east have been in the West, what they simply did was cluster together into "tribes" and simply enact their own set of laws in defiance of the laws of the land.
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Post by Big Orange »

Pint0 Xtreme wrote:I can't believe how poorly the police handled the situation. She asked for help four fucking times before she was killed. This was so unnecessarily tragic.
I guess it was nothing to do with the police having their hands tied by political correctness, turning a blind eye to "customs", in the same way it is seen as un-PC when pointing out Pakistani inbreeding. :roll:

And I doubt the mindset behind "Honour Killing" is entirely to do with the religion of Islam - the Judaic dominated Old Testament is loaded down with countless examples of relentlessly cruel tribal punishments doled out for petty slights and many other Middle Eastern cultures likely had pointlessly nasty or fundamentally illogical laws as well, long before Islam (in ancient Babylon if a tenement block collapsed killing the people living inside, the families of the builders were put to death or something to that effect).
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Post by Sarevok »

Big Orange is right. The rape and kill part did not come from Islam. Sharia law can be brutal but it does not include that. It arises from tribal culture in parts of mideast and Pakistan. Islamic texts include references to how barbaric Arab tribesmen were so this is likely something that precedes islam.
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Post by Big Orange »

Also the Hindu Indians are vehemently opposed to Islam, yet that doesn't stop them from burning the wives of dead husbands on the funeral pyre, alive, or murdering wives for other dumb reasons. Even in the TV drama, Rome, Lucius Vorenus was about to go through with an honour killing, even though the Romans didn't really care about Abrahamic religions until relatively late into their Imperial era and Islam was well over a thousand years away.
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Post by PeZook »

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote: It does feel very tribalistic. Essentially, what this woman has done is break the tribe's laws and thus must be punished in way that fits the crime as determined by the tribe elders.
Not really - as others mentioned, Sharia law does not mandate rape as punishment. It's just that a very conservative and brutal culture that encourages a certain view of women from a very young age will eventually produce very disturbed men - and it doesn't matter if the culture is Muslim, Hindu or any other religion. Sexual taboos and repression are a bad thing, because they try to fight the single strongest human instinct.
Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:Given how insular the muslims from the middle east have been in the West, what they simply did was cluster together into "tribes" and simply enact their own set of laws in defiance of the laws of the land.
They do that, but the raping is not part of Sharia, it's a result of a very twisted mindset. Of course, these guys probably haven't planned the rape part. The murder, yes, but raping probably came, uh, as a spur-of-the moment thing.
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Post by Fingolfin_Noldor »

PeZook wrote:Not really - as others mentioned, Sharia law does not mandate rape as punishment. It's just that a very conservative and brutal culture that encourages a certain view of women from a very young age will eventually produce very disturbed men - and it doesn't matter if the culture is Muslim, Hindu or any other religion. Sexual taboos and repression are a bad thing, because they try to fight the single strongest human instinct.
Well, I was being very loose with the definition of law here. Sharia law wasn't my actual target. One implementation of Sharia law I have seen from a next door neighbour does not allow such "honor killings". Tribal law, as I see it, is defined at the whims of the elders, and simply clothing it as a form of religious law just to give it some form of legitimacy.
They do that, but the raping is not part of Sharia, it's a result of a very twisted mindset. Of course, these guys probably haven't planned the rape part. The murder, yes, but raping probably came, uh, as a spur-of-the moment thing.
Well, most male dominated societies tend to impose their iron will upon the females. It is, as some have pointed out, predates many of the world's major religions as it is.
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Post by Big Orange »

I read recently today on Vodafone News that a elderly Hindu woman (Bachan Athwal) was convicted for the honour killing of her daughter-in-law, in India, so I'm proven right that BS honour killing "traditions" are not just limited to Muslims or the Middle East (like terrorism) and not always necessarily carried out by men (although they're disproportionately represented, but women elders could often still approve honour killings in a passive aggressive way).
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Post by Fingolfin_Noldor »

Big Orange wrote:I read recently today on Vodafone News that a elderly Hindu woman (Bachan Athwal) was convicted for the honour killing of her daughter-in-law, in India, so I'm proven right that BS honour killing "traditions" are not just limited to Muslims or the Middle East (like terrorism) and not always necessarily carried out by men (although they're disproportionately represented, but women elders could often still approve honour killings in a passive aggressive way).
I won't be surprised in India that this happens a fair bit, and more so in the lower castes. Such cases are not even reported in the news or even investigated by the police, who have shown a propensity to show bias towards the lower castes when it comes to crime.
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