Australia admits Iraq war was about oil

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Lonestar
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Post by Lonestar »

Stark wrote:Erm, they don't? They never did? So... what?

I'm not a huge fan of the decision, but it's not like their continued survival is dependent on sucking US cock. So... who cares? It doesn't make a difference to the US, so... ? You're basically saying 'you should let the US do whatever they want even when the US has nothing to offer and rapes AU despite it's cooperation'. Let's face it: the US is never going to treat a tiny nation like NZ as anything more than a doorstop (neither is anyone else, lol), so who cares?
I do. Lonestar looks out for one country, Lonestar's.

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Post by Darth Wong »

Lonestar wrote:
Stark wrote:Erm, they don't? They never did? So... what?

I'm not a huge fan of the decision, but it's not like their continued survival is dependent on sucking US cock. So... who cares? It doesn't make a difference to the US, so... ? You're basically saying 'you should let the US do whatever they want even when the US has nothing to offer and rapes AU despite it's cooperation'. Let's face it: the US is never going to treat a tiny nation like NZ as anything more than a doorstop (neither is anyone else, lol), so who cares?
I do. Lonestar looks out for one country, Lonestar's.

*plays "Proud to be An American"*
You know, I never knew what the song sounded like until I heard it on the Internet. I know you're deliberately being facetious, but it's one of the most sickening things I've ever heard. I can't believe there are people who hear that and think "Wow, that makes me feel proud of my country" instead of "Holy shit, that's the sappiest goddamned thing I've ever heard".
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Lonestar
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Post by Lonestar »

Darth Wong wrote: You know, I never knew what the song sounded like until I heard it on the Internet. I know you're deliberately being facetious, but it's one of the most sickening things I've ever heard. I can't believe there are people who hear that and think "Wow, that makes me feel proud of my country" instead of "Holy shit, that's the sappiest goddamned thing I've ever heard".
I think you would be amazed, yes, amazed at the swelling of emotion the caused in me and the other recruits when that was played towards the end of Bootcamp.

Of course, it's possible I was halfway delirious from running around like an idiot around the base for 12hrs going from point to point, fighting fires, answering retarded questions(in that I never used the knowledge again) about mariner related crap only to stumble on in and try to stay awake and in formation as the congratulated us on completing "Battlestations" and handed out the Navy hats.

Yeah, it might be because of that second part.
"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."
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Post by Darth Wong »

Lonestar wrote:
Darth Wong wrote: You know, I never knew what the song sounded like until I heard it on the Internet. I know you're deliberately being facetious, but it's one of the most sickening things I've ever heard. I can't believe there are people who hear that and think "Wow, that makes me feel proud of my country" instead of "Holy shit, that's the sappiest goddamned thing I've ever heard".
I think you would be amazed, yes, amazed at the swelling of emotion the caused in me and the other recruits when that was played towards the end of Bootcamp.

Of course, it's possible I was halfway delirious from running around like an idiot around the base for 12hrs going from point to point, fighting fires, answering retarded questions(in that I never used the knowledge again) about mariner related crap only to stumble on in and try to stay awake and in formation as the congratulated us on completing "Battlestations" and handed out the Navy hats.

Yeah, it might be because of that second part.
Sounds like the swelling of emotion in the average viewer at the end of Michael Bay's Armageddon. Part of it is shameless manipulation, and part of it is sheer relief that it's over. But at the end of the day, it's about the same level of quality.
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"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing

"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC

"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness

"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
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Post by Spyder »

Lonestar wrote:
I sure as Hell am. They don't wanna play ball on something as bloody simple as a SSN paying a port call, then why should we give two shits about what happens to them?
"We want to keep NZ nuclear free" sounds more diplomatic then "aww fuck off."

Most of us aren't really that anti-nuclear. We've even got this clown on our $100 note.
:D
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Post by tim31 »

Spyder wins again.

Anyway, we owe America for saving our arses in WW2; it's not like the Japanese would have invaded NZ...
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Post by B5B7 »

tim31 wrote:Anyway, we owe America for saving our arses in WW2; it's not like the Japanese would have invaded NZ...
A common myth - Japan made a decision that it didn't have the resources to invade Australia. One could as easily claim that Australia (& others) saved the US from Germany in both WWI & WWII by not allowing a German conquest of Europe.
Victory in WWII was a joint effort - the allies saved each other - Australia, NZ and Canada saved GB. Russians saved Europe. USA provided valuable assistance once they actually entered the war.
If Australia devoted all its resources simply to defending against Japan instead of helping in Europe, Africa, Asia and the Pacific, then it wouldn't have needed any American aid.
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Post by mr friendly guy »

Where are those right wing retards in Australia who keep on writing to the letters to the editor saying its "not about oil", now? Most probably wallowing in another delusion.
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Post by brianeyci »

Pardon me B5B7 but what? Victory was a joint effort but what certain countries did was disproportionate. Without the Americans you are looking at a Soviet Europe other than GB. And what about lend lease, that's assistance that happened before the war to Russia and GB right there!

If Japan had created the asian co-prosperity sphere and had total domination due to American non-interference, you don't think they would've had an eventual eye towards Australia?

As for oil, too bad it didn't work out. I'm sure everybody wanted the high oil consumer lifestyle to continue, but Mad Max is inevitable. Better train that kangaroo cavalry!
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Post by tim31 »

B5B7 wrote:
tim31 wrote:Anyway, we owe America for saving our arses in WW2; it's not like the Japanese would have invaded NZ...
A common myth - Japan made a decision that it didn't have the resources to invade Australia. (and snip)
I should probably point out that I was being facetious.
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Post by Sea Skimmer »

B5B7 wrote: A common myth - Japan made a decision that it didn't have the resources to invade Australia. One could as easily claim that Australia (& others) saved the US from Germany in both WWI & WWII by not allowing a German conquest of Europe.
Yeah the Japanese decided they couldn't invade without at least 300,000 men they didn't have. That doesn't mean they didn't intend to subdue Australia and force it surrender. The Japanese plan for doing this called for the occupation of the New Hebrides, Fiji and American Samoa, with the possibility of additional landings on several other island groups including New Zealand.

The first step of this operation was actually carried out, with the occupation of Tulagi and the construction of an airfield on Guadalcanal, the attack on Port Morsbery was turned back. The idea was to cut off communications from America to Australia with a string of new bases on these islands. Australia would then be blockaded and raided until it gave in or the Japanese could mobilized enough men to make the invasion.

The Japanese fully intended to implement these operations as soon as the Midway campaign had annihilated the American fleet, a timetable was sent and forces and supplies where amassed at Rabaul. In fact the Japanese even formed a whole new Fleet, the 8th, to defend the islands once they had been seized and also created a new ‘Area Army’, the Japanese esurient of an Army Group (I think it was the 17th but I’m not sure) which would have garrisoned the new territories besides the Solomon’s.

Now clearly this plan was going to hopelessly overextend the Japanese, and could never have worked, but that’s only because the USN was around. The RN had already faced the Japanese with the best strength it could muster in Apirl 1942, and had been so clearly inferior it simply declined battle. Had the US been completely out of the war, then the Japanese would have been in a much stronger position to take direct action against Australia rather then relying on an direct approach. But of course, as it was the Coral Sea and Midway put an end to all Japanese offensive operations.

The Japanese BTW, also didn’t consider an invasion of Oahu very practical, but they none the less made semi detailed plans for seizing American outposts beyond Midway, such as Palmyra atoll in ordered to neutralize the base. This was also hopelessly ambitious, but the so was the entire premise and strategy Japan went to war with.
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