F-14s being destroyed

[CC]

How come the F-14s aren't being used as drones? And out of curiosity, does the US have any unclassified target drones it uses for training in intercepting stealth targets?

[Pelranius]

The USN might not want the USAF to use their planes for target practice. Interservice rivalry still pops its ugly head now and then.

As for Iran obtaining spare parts, they could give an example to the Chinese for Shenyang Aviation Corp or whoever to look at and then churn out spare parts. Iran would provide more generous terms for oil exports to China and China would also get the chance to vacuum up any sort of American aerospace expertise.

[Golan III]

I'd imagine F-14s aren't being used as drones since there is (by comparison) plenty of F-4s and early F-15s, F-16s, and F-18s to operate instead.

Cost of operations and all. What can the F-14 give them that those others can't, to justify its use? Not much except for a big 'ol radar and fancy fire control system. Long range, I guess?

[Sidewinder]

Thanks to 'Top Gun', the F-14 was my favorite jet when I was a child. Reading this is moved me more than reading a Shakespearean tragedy.

[Sidewinder]

I'd imagine F-14s aren't being used as drones since there is (by comparison) plenty of F-4s and early F-15s, F-16s, and F-18s to operate instead.

Cost of operations and all. What can the F-14 give them that those others can't, to justify its use? Not much except for a big 'ol radar and fancy fire control system. Long range, I guess?

A big radar and a long-range missile able to exploit the radar's performance is justification enough. When your enemy has long-range bombers armed with supersonic antiship missiles, it makes sense to have the capability to deter such threats.

[Howedar]

Russia ain't the enemy we're fighting, son. If we really had to mix it up with the Russians, we'd have bigger problems than fleet air defense. Not to diminish the threat, or the capabilities given by the F-14 (and nothing else), but they weren't worth what it was costing.

[Golan III]

Phoenix has been retired (from the USN at least) for years, even if the Tomkittens were still flying.

It's all an AMRAAM game these days.

On the flip side, ARM and AEGIS keep getting better...

btw my post of 'what does the F-14 offer' was intended from the drone usage point of view. To which my point is that its an expensive target, with capabilities that aren't much use from a drone...yeah so it can go fast, big deal. So can QF-15As (once they start flying).

[Sidewinder]

Russia ain't the enemy we're fighting, son. If we really had to mix it up with the Russians, we'd have bigger problems than fleet air defense. Not to diminish the threat, or the capabilities given by the F-14 (and nothing else), but they weren't worth what it was costing.

The Iranians are a potential enemy, and have been trying-- and failing-- to buy Tu-22Ms from Russia.

[Elfdart]

My uncle worked on the F-14 back in the 1970s, and was part of the team telling the Iranians how to maintain them until 1978. Someone brought up the F-18 Hot Glue Gun earlier, which I find funny since the Iranians kept asking my uncle and his co-workers about converting the Tomcat into a ground support aircraft.

The USN thought about that and other strike missions too, with several different 'Super Tomcat' projects. They would have have excellent all around performance, but the funding didn't exist.

Isn't the idea of using a Tomcat to bomb and strafe like using a sports car to haul a trailer? It can be done, but it's much better suited for other tasks, while just about anything else can do the more menial work. I know the F-15 and F-16 are used for ground support, but those are Air Force planes.

[Ma Deuce]

Isn't the idea of using a Tomcat to bomb and strafe like using a sports car to haul a trailer? It can be done, but it's much better suited for other tasks

The F-14D, being a rather large fighter, could potentially carry something like twenty 500lb bombs, plus a LANTIRN pod. Not an ideal strike aircraft, but the Navy felt they needed something with that kind of payload given the retirement of the A-6 Intruder, and the fact that the F/A-18 simply could not match the range and payload of either the F-14 or A-6.

[Sea Skimmer]

How come the F-14s aren't being used as drones?

The supply of QF-4s existing types has yet to run out, and an F-14 would be expensive to convert and fly as a drone given its great size. The USAF and USN are likely to start using a QF-16 soon though.

And out of curiosity, does the US have any unclassified target drones it uses for training in intercepting stealth targets?

Most target drones are tiny and already have radar signature similar to stealth aircraft. For use as normal targets they have to be fitted with special reflectors which vastly increase the radar signature. Depending on which reflectors are fitted, the same small drone can simulate anything from a stealth cruise missile to a Tu-22M bomber. Suffice to say the US has paid attention to the threat that enemy stealth aircraft could present (the F-117 only takes 1970s technology after all) but the main concern is stealth cruise missiles, which are far easier to develop and deploy.

Isn't the idea of using a Tomcat to bomb and strafe like using a sports car to haul a trailer? It can be done, but it's much better suited for other tasks, while just about anything else can do the more menial work. I know the F-15 and F-16 are used for ground support, but those are Air Force planes.

All the Super Tomcats would have been fully multirole aircraft. Since ground targets to bomb are far more common then enemy aircraft to shoot down it hardly made sense to keep operating a single role carrier interceptor.

At the time the first Super Tomcat 21 was proposed (starting about 1989), it was clear the USN would never have funding to either develop a Naval Advanced Tactical Fighter or convert the Air Force ATF (now F-22) into a carrier plane. The future of the ultra expensive A-12 Avenger II strike plane was also uncertain, and indeed it would be canceled soon after. The Super Tomcat was to be a low cost solution to both requirements.

Depending on just how much money was available though, Grumman came up with two proposals. The basic Super Tomcat 21, which had only minor structural improvements, mainly to add fuel capacity but lots of new electronics and weapons options, and the Attack Super Tomcat 21. This later plane was to be the best it was physically possible to make an F-14, with a wing redesign and a new version of the F110 engine that would power it to a mach 1.3 supercruise. It was totally unaffordable.

In the end some of the electronics and weapons upgrades these proposals made were in fact implemented in the F-14D, but it was nothing like it could have been.


No one need lament the loss of the AIM-54, it was bulky and obsolete. Outside of a WW3 scenario, the demand for target identification makes it impossible to use the long range of the missile. The F-14 has a camera under the nose specifically for long range target ID, but the effective range is still no more then 40 miles or so even against a very large target. At that point AMRAAM works fine, and the latest AMRAAM now in development will have something like 60-80 mile range anyway. Ample enough.

[Howedar]

Russia ain't the enemy we're fighting, son. If we really had to mix it up with the Russians, we'd have bigger problems than fleet air defense. Not to diminish the threat, or the capabilities given by the F-14 (and nothing else), but they weren't worth what it was costing.

The Iranians are a potential enemy, and have been trying-- and failing-- to buy Tu-22Ms from Russia.

Okay... so the Iranians don't have any Tu-22M's. Weren't you trying to make some kind of point?