Car Strikes Child, TX Crowd Kills Passenger

Flagg · Post by **Flagg** » 2007-06-20 08:28pm

US crowd beats passenger to death

An angry Texas crowd has beaten and killed a 40-year-old car passenger after a driver injured a young girl near the site of a busy local festival.
Police said the driver of the car stopped to check on the health of the girl, said to be aged three or four.

But when the passenger got out to see how she was, he was set upon by a group of up to 20 people before being left lying in a car park, police said.

The girl was hit at low speed and was not seriously injured.

The incident happened near Austin, Texas, as crowd of between 2,000-3,000 people gathered for the annual Juneteenth festival, which commemorates the freeing of American slaves.

'Group mentality'

According to reports, the driver of the car hit the girl at a low speed while moving through a car park, and then stopped so his passenger could check on her condition.

But the angry crowd quickly turned on David Rivas Morales, 40, beating him before leaving him lying on the ground.

He was taken to hospital but pronounced dead soon afterwards. A preliminary autopsy listed "blunt force trauma" as the cause of death, the Associated Press reported.

The driver was able to leave the scene in his car.

"Mr Morales could have been assaulted by two to 20 folks," said Harold Piatt, from the Austin police department.

"It's that same crowd mindset of being one face in 1,000. Things get out of hand pretty quickly and people don't have the good sense to stop."

This is fucking pathetic. The girl wasn't even seriousely injured, the driver stopped rather than run off, and the fucking passenger who was trying to help gets beaten to death? What the fuck is wrong with these people?

Darth Raptor · Post by **Darth Raptor** » 2007-06-20 08:33pm

What a bunch of worthless fucking animals. It's stories like these that have me teetering on the edge of misanthropy.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2007-06-20 08:42pm

Stupid AND violent. Now they just need racism to complete the redneck triumvirate and we're all set.

Flagg · Post by **Flagg** » 2007-06-20 08:43pm

Darth Raptor wrote:What a bunch of worthless fucking animals. It's stories like these that have me teetering on the edge of misanthropy.

No shit. I could at least fucking understand it if the guy had tried to drive off or something, but he was apparently doing what you're supposed to do in that situation. Even assuming he was acting negligently when the girl was struck.

Flagg · Post by **Flagg** » 2007-06-20 08:46pm

Admiral Valdemar wrote:Stupid AND violent. Now they just need racism to complete the redneck triumvirate and we're all set.

They were most likely black. It was at a "Juneteenth" celebration which is celebrated every June 19th when supposedly on that day in 1865 the last slaves were informed of the emancipation proclamation. Though with the victim having the last name "Morales" racism may have played a part.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2007-06-20 08:46pm

Flagg wrote:
No shit. I could at least fucking understand it if the guy had tried to drive off or something, but he was apparently doing what you're supposed to do in that situation. Even assuming he was acting negligently when the girl was struck.

The crowd went and killed the wrong guy in the first place. If you're going to act on retarded troglodyte urges, at least think through who you're meant to bludgeon to death rather than go after innocents.

Flagg wrote: They were most likely black. It was at a "Juneteenth" celebration which is celebrated every June 19th when supposedly on that day in 1865 the last slaves were informed of the emancipation proclamation. Though with the victim having the last name "Morales" racism may have played a part.

Racist blacks? Now, boy, we dun be goin' down dat road, you feel me?

Flagg · Post by **Flagg** » 2007-06-20 08:47pm

Admiral Valdemar wrote:
Flagg wrote:
No shit. I could at least fucking understand it if the guy had tried to drive off or something, but he was apparently doing what you're supposed to do in that situation. Even assuming he was acting negligently when the girl was struck.
The crowd went and killed the wrong guy in the first place. If you're going to act on retarded troglodyte urges, at least think through who you're meant to bludgeon to death rather than go after innocents.

No shit. Whole thing just smacks of drunk assholes, anyway.

Stuart · Post by **Stuart** » 2007-06-20 10:20pm

Flagg wrote:This is pathetic. The girl wasn't even seriousely injured, the driver stopped rather than run off, and the fucking passenger who was trying to help gets beaten to death? What is wrong with these people?

Mob mentality. Happens over and over again, can happen with any group of people, any time, anywhere. Get enough people together (there is a critcla mass which depends on some factors) and their individual feelings and beliefs get subsumed by those of the crowd and that usually runs to the lowest common denominator. That lowest is very low indeed. It just needs somebody to start screaming "kill him" and that's what the crowd will do.

In a way, a crowd isn't a group of persons, its a single entity that functions as a discrete entity. People forming part of a rioting crowd have no sense of individuality; they are totally lost within the larger group. In many cases, people swept up in such mass events have no memory of what they did or why.

Crowd manipulation and control is one of the essential skills of a political agitator. Look at the rallies of Nazi Germany as a good example of how a group mentality subsumes and destroys the individuality of those within.

There was a French philosopher called Gustave Le Bon who wrote some of the basic theoretical work on group mentality; his works are fascinating reading but they need a strong stomach. The truth is that any person who gets into that situation is likely to be subsumed by that crowd mentality - however much you may like to think that you won't be.

What happened in this case? My ****guess**** is there was a crowd that was at or near critical mass. I'll bet that there was a proportion who'd been drinking (lowering inhibitions). They saw a child had been hurt (protecting children being a very primal - and thus very dangerous - driver) and that primed them. I'll also bet somebody, probably the mother, started screaming "they killed my baby" or "they killed the kid" and that did it.

There are some areas of the world that are notorious for such things (America isn't one of them) and where the instructions are, if you're in an accident, get the hell out of there and stay out. Don't stop, dont argue, don't explain. Run. Indonesia is a good example, most of the Middle East is another. However, the mentality of crowds applies anywhere.

brianeyci · Post by **brianeyci** » 2007-06-20 10:34pm

Flagg wrote:I could at least fucking understand it if the guy had tried to drive off or something, but he was apparently doing what you're supposed to do in that situation

Law and Order had an episode where a taxi driver hit a kid, went out to check on the kid, then ran back to his door as if to get away. A mob killed him.

Problem was, the guy was reaching for the radio to call for an ambulance. He died with a radio in his hand. He wasn't trying to drive off. They ended up killing a taxicab driver, and it was the kid's fault for jumping in front of the car in the first place. So never assume.

Flagg · Post by **Flagg** » 2007-06-20 10:36pm

brianeyci wrote:
Flagg wrote:I could at least fucking understand it if the guy had tried to drive off or something, but he was apparently doing what you're supposed to do in that situation
Law and Order had an episode where a taxi driver hit a kid, went out to check on the kid, then ran back to his door as if to get away. A mob killed him.

Problem was, the guy was reaching for the radio to call for an ambulance. He died with a radio in his hand. He wasn't trying to drive off. They ended up killing a taxicab driver, and it was the kid's fault for jumping in front of the car in the first place. So never assume.

I wasn't assuming anything. There have been instances of drunk drivers who have hit kids, then tried to drive off only to have a crowd pull them out of a car and beat the shit out of him. I don't condone that shit, but I can can certainly understand it.

wolveraptor · Post by **wolveraptor** » 2007-06-20 11:57pm

The worst part about these incidents is that the murderers get of scot-free, because it'd be impossible to identify who exactly did it.

Shinova · Post by **Shinova** » 2007-06-21 12:28am

They should all be charged with accessory to murder or whatever the formal name is for those who help a murder happen.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2007-06-21 12:58am

It's a pretty tall order to expect one normal citizen to stand against such a thing. There were a dozen people who were already in the process of demonstrating their willingness to beat an innocent person to death.

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2007-06-21 01:11am

Shinova wrote:They should all be charged with accessory to murder or whatever the formal name is for those who help a murder happen.

Who?

Flagg · Post by **Flagg** » 2007-06-21 01:40am

Without videotape it's going to be a real bitch to convict anyone for this shit.

Oni Koneko Damien · Post by **Oni Koneko Damien** » 2007-06-21 01:43am

Elfdart wrote:
Shinova wrote:They should all be charged with accessory to murder or whatever the formal name is for those who help a murder happen.
Who?

There's probably a large number of fingerprints on the body, that's a good place to start.

CaptainChewbacca · Post by **CaptainChewbacca** » 2007-06-21 02:26am

Oni Koneko Damien wrote:There's probably a large number of fingerprints on the body, that's a good place to start.

Those fingerprints are going to be impossible to find after a mass beating and medical care.

Post by **RogueIce** » 2007-06-21 03:12am

CaptainChewbacca wrote:
Oni Koneko Damien wrote:There's probably a large number of fingerprints on the body, that's a good place to start.
Those fingerprints are going to be impossible to find after a mass beating and medical care.

Which also assumes anyone in the crowd who did it stuck around by the time police could arrive (and in enough numbers to keep them there). There is also the slim chance someone may have their fingerprints on file for some reason, but that probably isn't too likely.

If the crowd had dispersed and the people who did it were gone before police got there, even if they had fingerprints there wouldn't be much they could do with them.

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2007-06-21 06:52am

The article says the dead man was the passenger not the driver. Why would the crowd turn on him ? Well at least the driver survived. Hopefully whatever he saw proves useful to investigators in catching the barbarians who beat an innocent man to death.

PeZook · Post by **PeZook** » 2007-06-21 07:59am

It's one of these cases where criminal law enforcement hasn't really progressed at all from the Middle Ages. Crowd gives anonymonity just as effectively today as it did in the past. The only thing that can change it, if slightly, are public monitoring cameras. Even then, if you had the faces of everyone involved, what are you gonna do? Post 1000 mugshots in a newspaper? Burn down the neighborhood in retribution?

There can be no retribution here. Not even the event organizer can be held responsible - what, should he hire security in case of such a thing? And what are they gonna do, stop a thousand people from beating someone up?

Though I do find it strange no police were nearby. Over here any kind of a mass event like this has either a whole lot of security guards and riot police standing by - it's required by law.

CaptainChewbacca · Post by **CaptainChewbacca** » 2007-06-21 04:07pm

Sarevok wrote:The article says the dead man was the passenger not the driver. Why would the crowd turn on him ? Well at least the driver survived. Hopefully whatever he saw proves useful to investigators in catching the barbarians who beat an innocent man to death.

He was a convenient target, because he was out of the car and attempting to render medical aid when he was beaten to death. Quite the payback for a good samaritan.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2007-06-22 12:18am

When my brother was flipping channels tonight, Bill O'Reilly was going about how "20 African Americans killed Morales". Guess was two words he kept repeating and somehow the LA riots came up as well.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2007-06-22 01:06am

PeZook wrote:It's one of these cases where criminal law enforcement hasn't really progressed at all from the Middle Ages. Crowd gives anonymonity just as effectively today as it did in the past. The only thing that can change it, if slightly, are public monitoring cameras. Even then, if you had the faces of everyone involved, what are you gonna do? Post 1000 mugshots in a newspaper? Burn down the neighborhood in retribution?

Well, even if you had fingerprints you couldn't prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the person those fingerprints belonged to even attacked the victim.

Actually, police arrest rioters quite effectively using imagines captured off cameras.

There can be no retribution here. Not even the event organizer can be held responsible - what, should he hire security in case of such a thing? And what are they gonna do, stop a thousand people from beating someone up?

They could be a visible deterent that might cause people to think twice.

PeZook · Post by **PeZook** » 2007-06-22 08:09am

Kamakazie Sith wrote: Well, even if you had fingerprints you couldn't prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the person those fingerprints belonged to even attacked the victim.

Actually, police arrest rioters quite effectively using imagines captured off cameras.

How effectively? Identifying rioters based on their mug shots alone can easily takes hundreds of man-hours. Though facial recognition software and centralized citizen databases can probably shorten the search, but it's still not an effective solution - for example, facial recognition software can get all lost when the photo is taken at a wrong angle. AFAIK obne of the most effective methods of apprehending rioters is to shoot them with hard-to-remove paint with paintball markers, though you still need some other proof they were actually rioting in order to convict them. And, of course, both these methods require cameras to be present on site.

They could be a visible deterent that might cause people to think twice.

Well, a proffesional security company can obviously manage the crowd in order to prevent such situations in the first place. On second thought, I guess I was wrong - if the event organizer didn't arrange for security and medical care, he should be slammed, and rightfully so. But if he did have proper security on the premises, then I don't see what else he could've done, and thus punishing him would be a waste of effort.

SAMAS · Post by **SAMAS** » 2007-06-22 01:35pm

Admiral Valdemar wrote:Racist blacks? Now, boy, we dun be goin' down dat road, you feel me?

Wow, I think you stepped on at least two different dialects there.

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