[Iraq] Reason to NEVER vote for McCain or Brownback...

[Einhander Sn0m4n]

...The two Cunts ADMIT to never reading the IRAQ NIE before voting for the AUMF!

McCain, Brownback didn't read Iraq NIE

By GLEN JOHNSON, Associated Press WriterTue Jun 5, 7:56 PM ET

Sens. John McCain (news, bio, voting record) of Arizona and Sam Brownback (news, bio, voting record) of Kansas both admitted Tuesday night they voted to authorize the U.S. military invasion of Iraq without reading the formal National Intelligence Estimate in advance.

The confession drew a jab from former Gov. Jim Gilmore of Virginia in the opening moments of a presidential campaign debate. Members of Congress "ought to read at least that kind of material," he said.

Rep. Duncan Hunter (news, bio, voting record) of California said he had, the only member of Congress on the debate stage to make the claim.

The war dominated the opening moments of the debate, two nights after Democratic presidential hopefuls stood on the same stage at St. Anselm College in the nation's first primary state.

Both McCain and Brownback said they had received numerous briefings on the situation in Iraq before they cast their votes in 2002.

McCain said the invasion was the correct decision, arguing that international sanctions designed to prevent Saddam Hussein from developing weapons of mass destruction were breaking down.

He said the Iraqi dictator had used the weapons against his own people and "if he had gotten them again he'd have used them again."

Brownback also said he had received briefings on the issue. He went on to say he would propose legislation in the Senate on Wednesday to divide Iraq into three regions, controlled by the Sunnis, Shiites and Kurds.

National intelligence estimates are compilations of the best thinking of U.S. intelligence agencies, meant to provide the broadest guidance to government policymakers.

But they can be wrong. A 2002 assessment, for example, concluded that Iraq had continued its development of weapons of mass destruction, held arsenals of chemical and biological weapons and "probably will have a nuclear weapon during this decade."

McCain drew loud applause from the partisan debate audience when he turned a question about the war in Iraq into criticism of the leading Democratic presidential hopeful, Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York.

"When Senator Clinton says this is Mr. Bush's war, President Bush's war," she is wrong, he said. "When President Clinton was in power, I didn't say Bosnia was President Clinton's war," the Arizona senator said.

"Presidents don't lose wars. Political parties don't lose wars. Nations lose wars," he added.

The debate drew 10 Republican presidential contenders in all — but not former Sen. Fred Thompson of Tennessee, an actor apparently poised to join the race in a month's time.

"My name is Thompson. I'm the candidate, not the actor," said former Wisconsin Gov. Tommy Thompson in a jab at the man who wasn't there.

Controversial immigration legislation dominated the run-up to the debate.

"Do I think it's perfect? No. I would remind you the Democrats are in majority in both houses now and we have to deal with them to resolve this issue," McCain said in a campaign stop during the day.

McCain stands alone among GOP hopefuls in backing the bipartisan bill. The measure would tighten security on the Mexican border while allowing many of the 12 million illegal immigrants a chance to stay in the United States and eventually become citizens.

He has faced criticism from his rivals who oppose the measure, in particular Mitt Romney and Rep. Tom Tancredo, R-Colo., who contends the bill would grant amnesty to illegal aliens.

Also participating in the debate were former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani, former Govs. Mike Huckabee of Arkansas and Ron Paul (news, bio, voting record) of Texas.

On Tuesday, Tancredo stood outside Republican Sen. Judd Gregg (news, bio, voting record)'s New Hampshire office and said he would start a petition drive and volunteer network to help voters campaign against senators who support the White House-backed immigration plan.

"For a Republican to be talking about other Republicans, trying to take them on and defeat them in primaries, that's a somewhat injudicious thing for me to do. But this is an issue that surpasses all the niceties that go along with political camaraderie that you develop," Tancredo said.

Gregg has said he won't decide how to vote until he's seen all the details of the bill. He dismissed people who use "a jingoistic and demagogic approach of opposition to immigrants as a way to raise their own political visibility."

Romney has complained that a so-called Z visa included in the immigration legislation would allow the 12 million illegal immigrants already in the country to remain indefinitely, letting them jump ahead of other foreigners seeking to emigrate legally. He has proposed making the visas temporary, forcing recipients to seek permanent immigrant status or leave the country.

Nonetheless, one of his top economic advisers, N. Gregory Mankiw, former chairman of Bush's Council of Economic Advisers, signed an op-ed piece in Tuesday's Dallas Morning News supporting the bill.

"This is the most far-reaching and thoughtful reform of our immigration system in four decades and one that will significantly enhance American competitiveness," wrote Mankiw and his co-signers, including Jack Kemp, the 1996 Republican vice presidential nominee. "The benefits of the bill far outweigh its shortcomings. We believe it offers the only realistic way forward, and urge conservatives — and all Americans — to embrace the promise it holds out."

The debate was sponsored by CNN, WMUR-TV and the New Hampshire Union Leader. The host was Saint Anselm College, which also hosted a Democratic debate on Sunday.

Fucking war whores.

[jegs2]

Wasn't the NIE just prior to the invasion all but useless, blowing threats out of proportion? According to Fiasco, the NIE played a significant role in swaying Bush toward war.

[Coyote]

McCain was already lost to me with the "white Christian power structure" shit anyway.

[CmdrWilkens]

Wasn't the NIE just prior to the invasion all but useless, blowing threats out of proportion? According to Fiasco, the NIE played a significant role in swaying Bush toward war.

They're probably referring to the one just recently revealed which was presented to the Senate Select Committee which basically claimed that the US was sending too few forces, would be greeted with gunfire in a few months, and would increase terrorist threat levels internaitonally while providing al-Qaeda with additional support. The WashPost had a whole big deal with it about 2-3 weeks ago so I'm guessing this is the NIE the Senators are referring to.

[wolveraptor]

Most Congressmen don't read all of the official documents presented to them. They have their staff summarize it for them. After all, why waste time reading the things yourself when you could better spend the time raking in cash from lobbyists and regretting it later because you actually have to give in to their despicable demands, am i rite!

[The Duchess of Zeon]

McCain was already lost to me with the "white Christian power structure" shit anyway.

Previously I had believed him in explaining away his gook comments. Now I don't.

[Aaron]

Gook comments? You mean there's more than just his recent BS?

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Gook comments? You mean there's more than just his recent BS?

Back in the 2000 Primary he called Vietnamese people "Gooks", and defended it by explaining that it referred to the Vietnamese communists and everyone including ARVN prisoners in the prison camp he was in did it.

[Einhander Sn0m4n]

Gook comments? You mean there's more than just his recent BS?

Back in the 2000 Primary he called Vietnamese people "Gooks", and defended it by explaining that it referred to the Vietnamese communists and everyone including ARVN prisoners in the prison camp he was in did it.

I understood it to be applied to any Vietnamese (or Southeast Asian in general), regardless of political affiliation; same with the term 'Dink'. It is a racist term.

[Coyote]

Trivia: One odd use of 'same term/different meanings' that I ran across is "zipperhead"... which I always heard as a term used for Vietnamese ("zips" as shorthand) but I guess in some Commonwealth slang it means a tank crewman.

A Canadian called me a 'zipperhead' once, since I actually was a tank crewer for awhile, but since I was familiar only with the derogatory Vietnamese reference it left me profoundly confused.

[Aaron]

Trivia: One odd use of 'same term/different meanings' that I ran across is "zipperhead"... which I always heard as a term used for Vietnamese ("zips" as shorthand) but I guess in some Commonwealth slang it means a tank crewman.

A Canadian called me a 'zipperhead' once, since I actually was a tank crewer for awhile, but since I was familiar only with the derogatory Vietnamese reference it left me profoundly confused.

"Zipperhead" in Canadian Forces slang refers to tankers as they often bash their skulls on the AAMG mounts and tank hatch coamings causing stitchs and scars on the forehead. This lead to the term "zipperhead" for them as they looked like they had zippers on their heads. With the new regs requiring us to wear helmets in AFV's were we once used to wear our beloved berets this has become less common but the name has stuck.

[DPDarkPrimus]

Hillary Clinton signed off on the war without reading the report as well, Ein.

[Kuja]

Hillary Clinton signed off on the war without reading the report as well, Ein.

So? She's a whoring cunt as well.

[Stormbringer]

McCain was already lost to me with the "white Christian power structure" shit anyway.

Previously I had believed him in explaining away his gook comments. Now I don't.

Even if his explanation was entirely true and sincere, his subsequent acceptance of Bill O'Rielly's comments ruin make it entirely irrelevant. At best he's willing to let himself be co-opted by the racists in the Republican Party. He's shilling his integrity for political gain, to racists, so it really doesn't matter where his own views fall.

Hillary Clinton signed off on the war without reading the report as well, Ein.

So? She's a whoring cunt as well.

That we're being equally poorly served by both sides? I think the most important thing to take away from it though is that you can't really turn partisan politics into black and white. In a lot ways both parties are alike; neither can be trusted with out a lot of oversight.

[Jack Bauer]

Hillary Clinton signed off on the war without reading the report as well, Ein.

So? She's a whoring cunt as well.

As well as John Edwards. But how is it fuckin surprising that politicians don't actually read the laws they pass?

[Einhander Sn0m4n]

Hillary Clinton signed off on the war without reading the report as well, Ein.

I already have no intention of voting for the cunt either. Her Cult of the Nanny-State bullshit, one example being her stance on video games, already soured me off her.

[Coyote]

Einy, thanks for reminding me of that. I keep forgetting about her "3v1l video games" thing.

[Einhander Sn0m4n]

Einy, thanks for reminding me of that. I keep forgetting about her "3v1l video games" thing.

No Problem

And personally, I would not support Hillary, not even if she offered me the damn VP slot. She is a cast iron control freak bitch. And that ladies and gents is both personal experience having to pull VP escort duty in Washington and a wealth of stories from a few former White House stewarts I've talked with from that era. Not "will snap and call people nine kinds of idiot if she her waters two degree's to warm" but pretty damn close unless things are exactly the way she wants.

Even more reason to vote someone else but Hillary in.

[wolveraptor]

People, the politicans don't pass bills with out a damn clue about what's on 'em. They're given summaries by their staff. Jesus, learn something about the political process before spouting reactionary bullshit. It's sooo easy to say, "lol politicans sux am i rite!"

So? She's a whoring cunt as well.

I'd rather have a whore of a president who actually follows the opinion polls than a fucking "decider".

[Stormbringer]

People, the politicans don't pass bills with out a damn clue about what's on 'em. They're given summaries by their staff. Jesus, learn something about the political process before spouting reactionary bullshit. It's sooo easy to say, "lol politicans sux am i rite!"

With all due respect, when it comes to a god damned war they better be fully informed, not relying on some kid on a college break and their ability to create a Cliff's Notes version. This was a major vote in a decisive issue, if they can't give their full attention to that what should they? I'd agree that they need to prioritize but something as important as this merits more than some pork laden spending bill.

I'd rather have a whore of a president who actually follows the opinion polls than a fucking "decider".

I'd rather have neither come down to it. A "decider" is one idiot. A "whore" is the sum total of millions of idiots.

[wolveraptor]

With all due respect, when it comes to a god damned war they better be fully informed, not relying on some kid on a college break and their ability to create a Cliff's Notes version. This was a major vote in a decisive issue, if they can't give their full attention to that what should they? I'd agree that they need to prioritize but something as important as this merits more than some pork laden spending bill.

Now that I can agree with. But as I said, who has time to be informed, even when lives are at stake? The lobbyists and other over-represented members of one's constituency simply need all of one's legislative attention.

I'd rather have neither come down to it. A "decider" is one idiot. A "whore" is the sum total of millions of idiots.

If Bush were listening to opinion polls right now, he'd be looking for a way out of Iraq. You must accept that Bush is exceptionally dumb, even when compared to the masses.