IEA wants Germany to rethink nuclear phase-out

[Ma Deuce]

AFX News Limited
IEA calls on Germany to reconsider phase-out of nuclear power
06.04.07, 7:33 AM ET

LONDON (Thomson Financial) - The International Energy Agency has called on Germany to reconsider its phase-out of nuclear energy, saying that the risky strategy will increase reliance the country's reliance on imports and hamper its potential to reduce carbon emissions.

'Losing the nuclear option will have significant impacts on energy security, economic efficiency and environmental sustainability,' the agency said in a statement.

'Without a doubt, a phase-out will limit Germany's full potential to reduce its emissions,' it added. 'The IEA urges the government to reconsider the decision to phase out nuclear power in light of these adverse consequences.'

The IEA's position supports that of German economics minister Michael Glos, who earlier this year called for an 'urgent and necessary' review of the country's position on nuclear energy.

Recent worries over gas supplies from Russia have reawakened fears over energy security, while an increasing focus on cutting greenhouse gas output have increased the attractiveness of low-emission nuclear energy.

Germany currently derives some 12 pct of its energy needs and 25 pct of its electricity generation from nuclear power, the IEA said.

The German government announced in 2000 its intention of phasing out nuclear power by 2020. Former German environment minister Jurgen Trittin said in a later interview that nuclear power was 'not needed' to achieve the country's energy goals and that the use of nuclear power 'is and will remain a global risk'.

The IEA also called on Germany to introduce independent system operators to manage transportation assets in the electricity and natural gas markets, in order to challenge the dominance of large energy companies.

*[email protected]

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Nice to see a credible international agency telling Germany that their plan to abandon nuclear power is a colossal mistake, though I doubt it will make any difference, given the populist origins of this plan. Oh, and once again, Jurgen Trittin can go fuck himself, honestly: I'm starting to feel that people who oppose nuclear power and are willing to take action against it (even voting for politicians on the basis of their opposition to nuclear power) are enemies of humanity.

[Starglider]

I will laugh if and when Russia cuts off the gas and Germany has to pay through the nose to buy nuclear electricity from France. AFAIK Germany is in a much worse coal situation than the US or UK; there is a fair bit left but it's low quality and mostly very deep (thus expensive/energy inefficient to mine).

I'm starting to feel that people who oppose nuclear power and are willing to take action against it (even voting for politicians on the basis of their opposition to nuclear power) are enemies of humanity.

Yes. If and when we have to start rationing electricity, I would cut off those fuckwits first. Sadly nothing less than rolling blackouts will make a dent in public perception, but on the plus side the eco-morons will find their popular support gone the instant the general public is subjected to real hardship (or even serious inconvenience).

[CaptHawkeye]

Everywhere I go in my school the eco wankers are droning on and on like this is some kind of incredible victory against "the evil power"!

When you look at teenagers these days I have nothing but a loss of hope. Most of them are only intrested in the aspects of life directly surrounding their career. Society has raised its children into the false dilemma that it can magically gauruntee the world around them will continue as always. I try to explain to them that the supermarkets they go to, the shopping sprees they go on, the malls they splurge huge amounts of money in are going to end. Alas, optimistic denial sets in, and a retreat to the magical "saviors" of society sets in. "Ethanol/Hydrogen/Natural Energy/Untapped oil in Colorado will save us!"

[K. A. Pital]

Nuclear power a go-go! Anything that advances nuclear power is a plus for humans in both short and long term.

[Tribun]

You guys with your nuclear fetisch start to make me sick. (By now I know that anything other than your "must have nuclear"-opinion is useless here, so I won't even try.)
And I can live without any anti-atom riots like we had in the 80's and 90's, so good riddance when we are rid of that shit.

God, I hate Nuclear-Hurrahist's.
So and now that I have said my opinon, flame me if you like.

[Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba]

You guys with your nuclear fetisch start to make me sick. (By now I know that anything other than your "must have nuclear"-opinion is useless here, so I won't even try.)
And I can live without any anti-atom riots like we had in the 80's and 90's, so good riddance when we are rid of that shit.

God, I hate Nuclear-Hurrahist's.
So and now that I have said my opinon, flame me if you like.

Flame you? How about I just ask: what the fuck other type of power production is at all feasible in both the short and long term? Unless you want us to enter a bold new Coal Age, of course.

And why the fuck should ignorant riots convince us to abandon an idea? Or did the recent riot in Rostock convince you of Anarchy's inherent dominance as a political system?

[Singular Intellect]

You guys with your nuclear fetisch start to make me sick. (By now I know that anything other than your "must have nuclear"-opinion is useless here, so I won't even try.)
And I can live without any anti-atom riots like we had in the 80's and 90's, so good riddance when we are rid of that shit.

God, I hate Nuclear-Hurrahist's.
So and now that I have said my opinon, flame me if you like.

Actually, it'd be more productive if you backed up your opinion rather than just arbitrarily stating it.

[Tribun]

You guys with your nuclear fetisch start to make me sick. (By now I know that anything other than your "must have nuclear"-opinion is useless here, so I won't even try.)
And I can live without any anti-atom riots like we had in the 80's and 90's, so good riddance when we are rid of that shit.

God, I hate Nuclear-Hurrahist's.
So and now that I have said my opinon, flame me if you like.

Actually, it'd be more productive if you backed up your opinion rather than just arbitrarily stating it.

It would be ignored anyway, so I don't even bother with writing down my reasons (and I do have them). It's only that it is a lost cause here anyway to try and explain it, wasting my time for nothing. You could as well try to explain race equality to a bunch of Ku-Klux Klans.

[Companion Cube]

It would be ignored anyway, so I don't even bother with writing down my reasons (and I do have them). It's only that it is a lost cause here anyway to try and explain it, wasting my time for nothing. You could as well try to explain race equality to a bunch of Ku-Klux Klans.

Surely posting your reasons and possibly subjecting them to mockery is better than saying that we simply wouldn't understand. And why is airborne pollution more tolerable than nuclear waste?

[MKSheppard]

Because tribune would rather have tons of radioactive coal spewed into the air, befouling the entire area with acid rain, rather than have all the nasty byproducts concentrated in a nice neat cannister of spent uranium which we can then neatly bury for a long time!

[Uraniun235]

You guys with your nuclear fetisch start to make me sick. (By now I know that anything other than your "must have nuclear"-opinion is useless here, so I won't even try.)
And I can live without any anti-atom riots like we had in the 80's and 90's, so good riddance when we are rid of that shit.

God, I hate Nuclear-Hurrahist's.
So and now that I have said my opinon, flame me if you like.

You "know" that advocating an anti-nuclear stance is "useless" but by gum you're going to try and shame us all for our views anyway. Spectacular.


God, I hate anti-nuclear shitheads.

[Einhander Sn0m4n]

You guys with your nuclear fetisch start to make me sick. (By now I know that anything other than your "must have nuclear"-opinion is useless here, so I won't even try.)
And I can live without any anti-atom riots like we had in the 80's and 90's, so good riddance when we are rid of that shit.

God, I hate Nuclear-Hurrahist's.
So and now that I have said my opinon, flame me if you like.

Actually, it'd be more productive if you backed up your opinion rather than just arbitrarily stating it.

It would be ignored anyway, so I don't even bother with writing down my reasons (and I do have them). It's only that it is a lost cause here anyway to try and explain it, wasting my time for nothing. You could as well try to explain race equality to a bunch of Ku-Klux Klans.

Concession Accepted, fuckwad.

So you'll consign us to incredibly dirty coal which is MORE RADIOACTIVE than Nuclear? Oil which is running out and igniting warfare?

Fuck you; I hope Mike bans you without a Senate hearing for this total mockery of a debate!

[Singular Intellect]

Because tribune would rather have tons of radioactive coal spewed into the air, befouling the entire area with acid rain, rather than have all the nasty byproducts concentrated in a nice neat cannister of spent uranium which we can then neatly bury for a long time!

Presumeably he can dazzle us with a logical and valid rebuttal that refutes that as a better way of utilizing energy resources.

Or perhaps not.

[Uraniun235]

So you'll consign us to incredibly dirty coal which is MORE RADIOACTIVE than Nuclear? Oil which is running out and igniting warfare?

Dollars to donuts his comprehensive energy plan calls for total reliance on wind, solar, tidal, and hydroelectric.

[Einhander Sn0m4n]

So you'll consign us to incredibly dirty coal which is MORE RADIOACTIVE than Nuclear? Oil which is running out and igniting warfare?

Dollars to donuts his comprehensive energy plan calls for total reliance on wind, solar, tidal, and hydroelectric.

I see no evidence to back that assertion. All he's doing is flailing his arms about and screaming "WAAAH! NUKES BAAAAAD!!"

[Uraniun235]

It's mostly a generalization intended to ridicule him, based on other anti-nuclear people I've met, so I wasn't too interested on whether or not it was wholly accurate. Considering that there aren't many people (except for certain investors) who are really pro-coal/oil/natural gas power plants, it's not that far of a stretch to conclude that he probably thinks that wind/solar/hydro/tidal is sufficient for all our needs. My italicization of "comprehensive energy plan" was intended to convey that I didn't think he had or subscribed to anything of the sort.


...Look, the important thing is that I was still ridiculing him, okay?

[Einhander Sn0m4n]

Hey Tribun, read up on Pebble Bed Reactor* tech, too!

*Yeah yeah, it's Wiki-fucking-pedia. Bust me back on the tarmac.

[Einhander Sn0m4n]

It's mostly a generalization intended to ridicule him, based on other anti-nuclear people I've met, so I wasn't too interested on whether or not it was wholly accurate. Considering that there aren't many people (except for certain investors) who are really pro-coal/oil/natural gas power plants, it's not that far of a stretch to conclude that he probably thinks that wind/solar/hydro/tidal is sufficient for all our needs. My italicization of "comprehensive energy plan" was intended to convey that I didn't think he had or subscribed to anything of the sort.

10-4. I get your drift. I was clarifying for some of the slower members of the audience, like Tribun here

...Look, the important thing is that I was still ridiculing him, okay?

Hey, it works!

[The Duchess of Zeon]

You guys with your nuclear fetisch start to make me sick. (By now I know that anything other than your "must have nuclear"-opinion is useless here, so I won't even try.)
And I can live without any anti-atom riots like we had in the 80's and 90's, so good riddance when we are rid of that shit.

God, I hate Nuclear-Hurrahist's.
So and now that I have said my opinon, flame me if you like.

Actually, it'd be more productive if you backed up your opinion rather than just arbitrarily stating it.

It would be ignored anyway, so I don't even bother with writing down my reasons (and I do have them). It's only that it is a lost cause here anyway to try and explain it, wasting my time for nothing. You could as well try to explain race equality to a bunch of Ku-Klux Klans.

Hey guess what you little dumbshit? Coal contains radioactive particles.

Electrical production from coal in the United States releases more radioactive material into the atmosphere each and every year than every single nuclear bomb test in the history of humanity.

In terms of radioactive pollution, if you're getting your electrical power from coal, you're basically having thousands of a-bombs go off in the atmosphere over your country.

[Starglider]

It would be ignored anyway,

No, it would be ripped apart, because unless you have something truly novel your reasons are indefensible bullshit.

You could as well try to explain race equality to a bunch of Ku-Klux Klans.

So you admit that you are incapable of engaging in or even recognising rational debate. Why are you still here? I mean that both in the 'why are you on this forum if you think it's so insane' and the 'why hasn't this fuckwit been banned if his usual behaviour is tossing pathetic insults and then running away' senses.

Enjoy your rolling blackouts (at the very least), starting within a decade or two.

[CaptHawkeye]

It would be ignored anyway, so I don't even bother with writing down my reasons (and I do have them). It's only that it is a lost cause here anyway to try and explain it, wasting my time for nothing. You could as well try to explain race equality to a bunch of Ku-Klux Klans.

You're a fucking moron. Rather than try to even do a mediocre argument you're just going to stand here and launch personal attacks against the website? Comparing us to the KKK? This isn't even worth a hearing, Mike should just kick your sorry ass off the website you cunt.

You've been here long enough. Post an actual coherent argument with evidence or fuck off.

[Colonel Olrik]

Tribun, you really fucked up big this time. You can't really pass a judgement like this and not be prepared to back up extremely well your reasoning. As Mike and others here, and unlike you, I'm a Mechanical Engineer and until you prove contrary know a fuckton more about the subject than you do. Calling me or others illiterate morons won't pass.

Living in Munich, I expect and hope that Germany invests in nuclear. But hey, we can always keep buying electricity from the French, right? After all, your so feared radiation will surely respect national borders, right? Oh..

[Tribun]

I already sent this to Einhander and now I will say it open:

I should have known that this topic is too hot for me...

I admit defeat. In the future I better stay away from anything concerning nuclear power (As I did before).

To make it short: I wrote mostly emotional, and I have NOT all the facts together. I made assumptions without facts. Now that I've thought about it I therefore admit that while I still don't like nuclear power, I have said nothing useful.

[Einhander Sn0m4n]

Also, the thread was never locked, Tribun, so I caught you in another lie over PM. You fail.

[Aaron]

Also, the thread was never locked, Tribun, so I caught you in another lie over PM. You fail.

No it was locked albiet briefly Ein.