Doctors Build a Better Vagina

[Coyote]

Okay, first: I'm not trying to set an establishment for "bizarre newsy of the day" award, considering that previously I had "Corgi eating with Yoko Ono" here as well.

Second,I just couldn't resist the title. And neither could you.

That said, here it is: "We can build it better than it was before... better... stronger... faster".

ROME - An Italian doctor has reconstructed vaginas for two women born with a rare congenital deformation, using their own cells to build vaginal tissue in the lab for the first time.

Dr. Cinzia Marchese of Rome’s Policlinico Umberto I hospital, giving details of the operations on Wednesday, told Reuters a 28-year-old woman who underwent the first such operation a year ago now has a healthy vagina.

“She has got married and is living a normal life,” said Marchese, whose study has been published in the journal Human Reproduction.

It's a medical thing, I guess, a birth defect that causes some infant girls to be born, um, vagina-less.

The two women had a condition called Mayer-Von Rokitansky-Kuster-Hauser Syndrome, or MRKHS for short, which affects an estimated one in 4,000 to 5,000 female infants.

Girls with the syndrome are born with no vagina. The patient often has a normal uterus, ovaries and external secondary sexual organs such as breasts, but cannot have sexual intercourse or give birth.

Hat's off to the doc for providing the girls with normal happy, healthy sex lives. Here's the kicker: it's all about those stem cells--

Stem cells generate new tissue
So far, surgeons have been able to correct the condition by reconstructing a vagina out of grafted skin or from intestinal tissue, but the surgery is highly invasive, lengthy and painful. And it takes a long time to grow a normal mucosal wall.

Such women, if they have healthy ovaries, have been able to achieve pregnancy by artificial insemination but would then need a surrogate mother to carry the fertilized eggs and give birth.

“What we do is to take a little biopsy of 0.5 cm from the place the vagina should be, “ Marchese said. They used an enzyme to break down the tissue and then let the immature cells, called stem cells, generate new, mucosal tissue on their own.

Medical science is awesome. I wish we could get some of that over here.

[K. A. Pital]

So, technically, in a few years I can get my dick rebuilt into a super-dick or what?

[Einhander Sn0m4n]

Here's the kicker: it's all about those stem cells--

Stem cells generate new tissue
So far, surgeons have been able to correct the condition by reconstructing a vagina out of grafted skin or from intestinal tissue, but the surgery is highly invasive, lengthy and painful. And it takes a long time to grow a normal mucosal wall.

Such women, if they have healthy ovaries, have been able to achieve pregnancy by artificial insemination but would then need a surrogate mother to carry the fertilized eggs and give birth.

“What we do is to take a little biopsy of 0.5 cm from the place the vagina should be, “ Marchese said. They used an enzyme to break down the tissue and then let the immature cells, called stem cells, generate new, mucosal tissue on their own.

Medical science is awesome. I wish we could get some of that over here.

Fundies redoubling their fight against stem cells in three.. two.. one..

[Spin Echo]

I wonder if this could also be used to create better vaginas for male to female transexuals.

[Surlethe]

I wonder if this could also be used to create better vaginas for male to female transexuals.

Is the genetic code for a vagina in a man's stem cells? If not, the body might reject transplanted female stem cells.

[Aaron]

Is the genetic code for a vagina in a man's stem cells? If not, the body might reject transplanted female stem cells.

Perhaps the drugs they give to organ transplant recipients might be of some use here. Perhaps with some tweaking to make them effective for stem cells versus transplanted organs.

[Lord of the Abyss]

I wonder if this could also be used to create better vaginas for male to female transexuals.

Is the genetic code for a vagina in a man's stem cells? If not, the body might reject transplanted female stem cells.

A genetic male with androgen insensitivity ( immunity to testosterone ) will look like a woman, including having a vagina; males have all the gens females do, and a little more. I expect that growing a vagina for a transexual would work, as long as the testicles were removed ( which is kind of a given if you're installing a vagina ). As for rejection, I'm not sure but as I recall male bodies are more tolerant of female parts than the other way around.

[Turin]

So, technically, in a few years I can get my dick rebuilt into a super-dick or what?

<ahem> Some of us already have that, and frankly, I'd rather not improve my competition.

I wonder if this could also be used to create better vaginas for male to female transexuals.

Is the genetic code for a vagina in a man's stem cells? If not, the body might reject transplanted female stem cells.

A man should have the genetic code available. After all, men have an X chromosome. What makes the difference between these "vagina genes" being expressed normally is a combination of Y-chromosome genes and in utereo hormone environment. I imagine one could suppress the hormone problem with stem cells in vitro, although I'm not sure how development would work out that way. One of the funny (well not funny, but tricky) things about stem cell work is that our understanding of all the factors involved in turning a genetic recipe into a full-fledged baby person isn't all that perfected.

Outstanding work, however, and I imagine very useful as well for people born intersexed.

[CC]

Here's the kicker: it's all about those stem cells--

Stem cells generate new tissue
So far, surgeons have been able to correct the condition by reconstructing a vagina out of grafted skin or from intestinal tissue, but the surgery is highly invasive, lengthy and painful. And it takes a long time to grow a normal mucosal wall.

Such women, if they have healthy ovaries, have been able to achieve pregnancy by artificial insemination but would then need a surrogate mother to carry the fertilized eggs and give birth.

“What we do is to take a little biopsy of 0.5 cm from the place the vagina should be, “ Marchese said. They used an enzyme to break down the tissue and then let the immature cells, called stem cells, generate new, mucosal tissue on their own.

Medical science is awesome. I wish we could get some of that over here.

Fundies redoubling their fight against stem cells in three.. two.. one..

The stem cells used in this procedure are adult stem cells from the women themselves. Exactly which fundies are against adult stem cells? There's opposition to the use of embryonic stem cells, but that's an entirely different thing.

[Einhander Sn0m4n]

Here's the kicker: it's all about those stem cells--
Medical science is awesome. I wish we could get some of that over here.

Fundies redoubling their fight against stem cells in three.. two.. one..

The stem cells used in this procedure are adult stem cells from the women themselves. Exactly which fundies are against adult stem cells? There's opposition to the use of embryonic stem cells, but that's an entirely different thing.

Trust me on this: to a fundie, stem cells are stem cells are stem cells, whether E or A. Never overestimate their ability to account for an all-important fact when under the influence of strong emotion and mythology.

[CaptJodan]

The stem cells used in this procedure are adult stem cells from the women themselves. Exactly which fundies are against adult stem cells? There's opposition to the use of embryonic stem cells, but that's an entirely different thing.

Trust me on this: to a fundie, stem cells are stem cells are stem cells, whether E or A. Never overestimate their ability to account for an all-important fact when under the influence of strong emotion and mythology.[/quote]

Well, and it's a double whammy. You're using stem cells in a peverted way to give girls vaginas that were never intended by God to have. Or some such. Now they'll be able to....you know...have sex and stuff. See how evil stem cell research is? It's being used to help people have normal sex lives!

[Surlethe]

I stand corrected. Thank you for the information, everyone.

[Einhander Sn0m4n]

The stem cells used in this procedure are adult stem cells from the women themselves. Exactly which fundies are against adult stem cells? There's opposition to the use of embryonic stem cells, but that's an entirely different thing.

Trust me on this: to a fundie, stem cells are stem cells are stem cells, whether E or A. Never overestimate their ability to account for an all-important fact when under the influence of strong emotion and mythology.

Well, and it's a double whammy. You're using stem cells in a peverted way to give girls vaginas that were never intended by God to have. Or some such. Now they'll be able to....you know...have sex and stuff. See how evil stem cell research is? It's being used to help people have normal sex lives!

Bingo, Jodan. Keep in mind CC has a history of defending fundie mentality, or so it appears to me.

Oh, and I fixed your messed-up quote.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

For MtF transexuals, the level of precision in the existing surgical techniques allows a normal vagina (as in gynecologists can't tell the difference even on close examination) using the head of the penis as the material for the clitoris while the skin of the rest of the penis and the scrotum as used as the lining for the vagina. The labia majora are constructed out of tissue grafts from the reasonably sensitive inner thighs. Orgasm is quite possible, and the results are especially excellent in those aged 25 and younger.

The only difference this procedure would aid is the ability to have mucosal cells in the lining of the vagina, in short, to be able to naturally lubricate like a genetic woman instead of having to buy KY jelly. I do not imagine that ability is really worth it, unless said individual has massive amounts of money to spend on what is essentially a luxury addition to the procedure.

[CC]

Fundies redoubling their fight against stem cells in three.. two.. one..

The stem cells used in this procedure are adult stem cells from the women themselves. Exactly which fundies are against adult stem cells? There's opposition to the use of embryonic stem cells, but that's an entirely different thing.

Trust me on this: to a fundie, stem cells are stem cells are stem cells, whether E or A. Never overestimate their ability to account for an all-important fact when under the influence of strong emotion and mythology.

Then please, tell me, which fundamentalists oppose them both? I'm not aware of any who do. Certainly there may be some who, out of ignorance that there are different types of stem cells, may oppose adult stem cells, but that's rather a different thing entirely and not true opposition to adult stem cells. I'd also appreciate your giving evidence that any such total opposition is a widespread movement as your statement implies rather than simply belonging to fringe elements.

[Death from the Sea]

For MtF transexuals, the level of precision in the existing surgical techniques allows a normal vagina (as in gynecologists can't tell the difference even on close examination) using the head of the penis as the material for the clitoris while the skin of the rest of the penis and the scrotum as used as the lining for the vagina. The labia majora are constructed out of tissue grafts from the reasonably sensitive inner thighs. Orgasm is quite possible, and the results are especially excellent in those aged 25 and younger.

The only difference this procedure would aid is the ability to have mucosal cells in the lining of the vagina, in short, to be able to naturally lubricate like a genetic woman instead of having to buy KY jelly. I do not imagine that ability is really worth it, unless said individual has massive amounts of money to spend on what is essentially a luxury addition to the procedure.

the bolded part.... ew... so the inside of their vaginas are hairy? because that is what covers most male scrotums... hair and lots of it...

[The Duchess of Zeon]

The bolded part.... ew... so the inside of their vaginas are hairy? because that is what covers most male scrotums... hair and lots of it...

Even though I really cannot believe I'm talking about this:

No. Permanent hair removal technicques are done systematically for a year before the surgery on the areas to be used for internal tissue, and any remaining follicles are removed during the surgical procedure itself.

It's really quite fascinating just how incredible they've got at reconstructive surgeries these days, and hardly just this rather unique one. There's incredible work they can do for all kinds of disfigurements.

[Sidewinder]

All this talk about using this technique for male-to-female transgender operations makes me curious: Is it possible to use stem cells from a man's nearest female relative-- a sister or a cousin, perhaps-- to create a functional uterus and ovaries for implantation? I understand it's likely a male-to-female transexual will be sterile despite having cloned ovaries implanted, but having a natural source of hormones instead of having to buy synthetic hormones must be convenient.

[Broomstick]

All this talk about using this technique for male-to-female transgender operations makes me curious: Is it possible to use stem cells from a man's nearest female relative-- a sister or a cousin, perhaps-- to create a functional uterus and ovaries for implantation? I understand it's likely a male-to-female transexual will be sterile despite having cloned ovaries implanted, but having a natural source of hormones instead of having to buy synthetic hormones must be convenient.

I'm puzzled how you can described the transplant of an artifically grown ovary into a developmentally male body as "natural"....

And if they uterus and ovaries were indeed functional the individual in question most likely would be fertile.

However, this being an organ transplant, there would also be the issue of immune-suppressing drugs for life. The side effects and potential problems of organ transplantation are much, much greater than those of hormone replacement

[Vampiress_Miyu]

For MtF transexuals, the level of precision in the existing surgical techniques allows a normal vagina (as in gynecologists can't tell the difference even on close examination) using the head of the penis as the material for the clitoris while the skin of the rest of the penis and the scrotum as used as the lining for the vagina. The labia majora are constructed out of tissue grafts from the reasonably sensitive inner thighs. Orgasm is quite possible, and the results are especially excellent in those aged 25 and younger.

That's really intense. o.o;
I had no idea that the surgery was like that. -loves how much she can learn just from scanning through random articles here- Now I actually have a slight idea of what they do in transsexual operations. Spiffy.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

I'm puzzled how you can described the transplant of an artifically grown ovary into a developmentally male body as "natural".... :wtf:

And if they uterus and ovaries were indeed functional the individual in question most likely would be fertile.

However, this being an organ transplant, there would also be the issue of immune-suppressing drugs for life. The side effects and potential problems of organ transplantation are much, much greater than those of hormone replacement

For male to female transexuals to be able to have natural children, a better method of research would be into developing a technique first demonstrated in 2002 whereupon an adult male stem cell can be made to develop into an egg. I'm sure of the status of current research, but since MtF transexuals do possess an X chromosome there is utterly no reason why they can't reproduce as females, with a surrogate mother and extensive laboratory aid--in fully genetic females only one X chromosome is active, anyway. This would of course also work with women who have AIS.

...And two gay men wanting to have a genetically distinctive child of their own.

[Darth RyanKCR]

The stem cells used in this procedure are adult stem cells from the women themselves. Exactly which fundies are against adult stem cells? There's opposition to the use of embryonic stem cells, but that's an entirely different thing.

Trust me on this: to a fundie, stem cells are stem cells are stem cells, whether E or A. Never overestimate their ability to account for an all-important fact when under the influence of strong emotion and mythology.

Well, and it's a double whammy. You're using stem cells in a peverted way to give girls vaginas that were never intended by God to have. Or some such. Now they'll be able to....you know...have sex and stuff. See how evil stem cell research is? It's being used to help people have normal sex lives![/quote]

I am what you would call a Christian Fundie and I would not oppose this. I don't know of any with similiar convictions as I who would oppose this. I find this great. As a matter of fact I am now watching this because of my own heart issues.

[Molyneux]

For MtF transexuals, the level of precision in the existing surgical techniques allows a normal vagina (as in gynecologists can't tell the difference even on close examination) using the head of the penis as the material for the clitoris while the skin of the rest of the penis and the scrotum as used as the lining for the vagina. The labia majora are constructed out of tissue grafts from the reasonably sensitive inner thighs. Orgasm is quite possible, and the results are especially excellent in those aged 25 and younger.

The only difference this procedure would aid is the ability to have mucosal cells in the lining of the vagina, in short, to be able to naturally lubricate like a genetic woman instead of having to buy KY jelly. I do not imagine that ability is really worth it, unless said individual has massive amounts of money to spend on what is essentially a luxury addition to the procedure.

...are you sure? I mean...I would think there'd be a qualitative difference in the amount of feeling. Does this procedure end up with close to the standard number of nerve endings as a natural woman does in that area?

[wolveraptor]

I am what you would call a Christian Fundie and I would not oppose this. I don't know of any with similiar convictions as I who would oppose this. I find this great. As a matter of fact I am now watching this because of my own heart issues.

All fundies don't fall into a single category. I know a guy who's a creationist, but participated in the Gay-Straight Alliance's Day of Silence.

However, the vast majority of people whom we would call fundamentalist oppose stem-cell research. This begs the question: are you even a fundie, or are you simply a moderate (by American standards) Christian? Do you hold any fundamentalist viewpoints, like a belief on creationism or a rejection of gay-rights?

In fact, should the latter even be considered fundamentalism by American standards? It's quite a mainstream belief, isn't it?

Sorry, I guess this is all off-topic.