Anti-whaling lobby rebuffs Japan

[Zed Snardbody]

Anti-whaling countries have rejected an offer which could have seen Japan scale back its Antarctic hunting programme.

Japan had said it would consider scrapping plans to include humpback whales in the catch.

In return it sought approval of its request for limited commercial hunting by four coastal communities.

But anti-whaling countries at the annual meeting of the International Whaling Commission rejected the move as a "needless act of provocation".

The IWC meeting opened in Alaska on Monday.

Clear rejection

The proposed humpback hunt has been a major issue in anti-whaling countries, notably Australia and New Zealand which both run healthy whale-watching industries with humpbacks as their star turn.

Japan plans to add 50 humpbacks next season to its annual Antarctic hunt, which it runs under regulations permitting whaling for scientific research.

The hunt currently takes minke and fin whales.

Speaking to reporters immediately before the meeting opened, Japan's deputy whaling commissioner Joji Morishita stopped short of offering a formal deal, but hinted at progress behind the scenes.

"We are open-minded for dialogue (on the humpback question), and we might come up with a big package which will satisfy all members," he said.

"But we are very keen to see our small-type coastal whaling proposal progress."

This proposal would entitle four coastal communities to take a small number of minke whales. The same number of minkes would be deducted from the current self-awarded coastal scientific quota.

But the Japanese plan was rejected in no uncertain terms by an anti-whaling bloc including the US, the UK and Australia.

"The inclusion of the humpback whale is a highly provocative act," said Australia Environment Minister Malcolm Turnbull.

"It is calculated... to undermine dramatically the standing, the affection, the relationship between the Australian and the Japanese people. It is a needless act of provocation."

The delegates said the Japanese plan amounted to commercial whaling, which has been banned for 21 years under a global IWC moratorium.

Problem quotas

Indigenous hunts appear likely to cause some major headaches on the meeting's second day. Aboriginal, or subsistence, permits are given to groups judged to have a strong whaling history and a need for whale meat. They are awarded in five-year blocs, and are up for review in Anchorage.

Greenland wants to expand the scale of its indigenous hunt, and include humpbacks and bowhead whales for the first time. With much of the meat being sold, there are concerns that it is coming too close to being a commercial endeavour.

Russia also asked for additional quotas for its Chukotka region.

But the US is desperate to renew quotas for its own indigenous groups here in Alaska, and may find it politically difficult, with its anti-whaling allies, to oppose the Greenland bid.

"There's a lot of discussion going on with Greenland and others to see if we can reach some compromise that we could support," said US whaling commissioner Bill Hogarth.

"We realise it's important to Greenland, but you have to be careful of the species you take, and whether you have scientific justification," he told BBC News.

Latin American countries are said to be particularly riled by the bids, particularly as they feel that Russia and Denmark (which speaks for Greenland) have consistently opposed plans for a whale sanctuary in the south Atlantic.

Meeting of minds?

Last year the pro-whaling camp enjoyed its first triumph in 20 years with the passing, by a single vote, of a motion calling for the eventual resumption of commercial whaling.

The moratorium itself will not be lifted in the foreseeable future, as it would require a three-quarters majority of votes.

In any case, this year the balance of power has shifted, with new members such as Croatia, Cyprus, Ecuador, Greece and Slovenia weighing in on the anti-whaling side, against only Laos as a probable new pro-whaling country.

In recent years, the IWC has been riven by a fundamental divide between the two camps, its meetings marked by emotional and often aggressive language.

Preliminary exchanges here have been in a much more conciliatory spirit, with delegates on both sides talking of finding common ground.

But Japan will be tabling a strong resolution against the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society, which disrupted Japan's Antarctic hunt in the 2006-7 season, engaging in what Mr Morishita called "very violent activities".

The BBC

[Zor]

This is a step in the right direction, take that you whale slaughtering bastards from Japan!

Zor

[Pick]

Fuck, Japan sucks in a lot of ways. Woah, scrap harvest of endangered species? Oh noes! Don't act to hastily, fuckwads . You might lose some profit!

[K. A. Pital]

"Very violent activities"? I guess wholesale slaughter of whales is exactly that. I'm with Pick. Profiteering fuckwads.

[Gil Hamilton]

Boo hoo, people are trying to force you to stop, uh, "scientific research" (that is, taking careful note of stomach contents and measurements while you are on the phone with meat vendors back home) on an endangered and likely intelligent species.

[Flagg]

What kind of sick fuck chooses to eat whale meat, anyway?

[Spin Echo]

What kind of sick fuck chooses to eat whale meat, anyway?

I've had whale meat. I personally wouldn't cook with it because it requires a lot of cooking time to get it tender, but when done properly it's not bad.

The problem is people assume all whales are equal. I agree that hunting of the endangered humpback whales shouldn't be done. The minke whale, however, is not endangered. They're not intelligent either, sort of the cows of the sea. Considering whaling has less of an environmental impact than raising say, cows, in most of the countries where it's done (Norway, Iceland) and the whales lead a better life than a lot of animals raised for slaughter, I can't get too up in arms over it.

[Erik von Nein]

The reason they eat whale meat is because it's a tradition and it's expensive. It's the same reason they eat raw pufferfish (I mean, aside from a profound stupidity). Thank goodness those other countries managed to keep them from upping their catch intake. Fucking dipshits. If it were up to them we'd be right back to the 1800s, hunting these species to extinction again.

[Flagg]

What kind of sick fuck chooses to eat whale meat, anyway?

I've had whale meat. I personally wouldn't cook with it because it requires a lot of cooking time to get it tender, but when done properly it's not bad.

The problem is people assume all whales are equal. I agree that hunting of the endangered humpback whales shouldn't be done. The minke whale, however, is not endangered. They're not intelligent either, sort of the cows of the sea. Considering whaling has less of an environmental impact than raising say, cows, in most of the countries where it's done (Norway, Iceland) and the whales lead a better life than a lot of animals raised for slaughter, I can't get too up in arms over it.

Yeah, I should have added the stipulation that they be endangered as that was the whale meat I was thinking of. I put 'chooses' in there seeing as how if you're starving and you've only got endangered whale meat, then do what you gotta do.

[Flagg]

The reason they eat whale meat is because it's a tradition and it's expensive. It's the same reason they eat raw pufferfish (I mean, aside from a profound stupidity). Thank goodness those other countries managed to keep them from upping their catch intake. Fucking dipshits. If it were up to them we'd be right back to the 1800s, hunting these species to extinction again.

Didn't some high level Japanese official once call whales "cockroaches of the sea" not too long ago? I always found that a bit ironic, since I doubt they eat alot of those in Japan. Please fucking tell me they don't eat alot of those in Japan...

[Ma Deuce]

Didn't some high level Japanese official once call whales "cockroaches of the sea" not too long ago? I always found that a bit ironic, since I doubt they eat alot of those in Japan. Please fucking tell me they don't eat alot of those in Japan...

Cockroaches are a popular delicacy in China, though I'm pretty sure such is not the case in Japan. That "cockroaches of the sea" comment was directed specifically at Minke whales, referring to their supposed abundance and prolific reproduction (though when referring to whales that's quite relative).

[Lord Zentei]

The reason they eat whale meat is because it's a tradition and it's expensive. It's the same reason they eat raw pufferfish (I mean, aside from a profound stupidity). Thank goodness those other countries managed to keep them from upping their catch intake. Fucking dipshits. If it were up to them we'd be right back to the 1800s, hunting these species to extinction again.

How can you hunt something to extinction "again"?

Anyway, the Japanese plan would not have been anything like a return to the 1800s.

"It is calculated... to undermine dramatically the standing, the affection, the relationship between the Australian and the Japanese people. It is a needless act of provocation."

Wat?

[wolveraptor]

They hunt fin whales too? Aren't those horrendously endangered? They don't get a lot of coverage because they're like the middle child of the whale family - the second largest species of whale.

[Chris OFarrell]

I'm all for Harpooning any Japanese whaling ships that are seen in Australian territorial waters trying to harpoon whales.

And I don't mean with a metal slug.

[Erik von Nein]

How can you hunt something to extinction "again"?

You know what I meant. Brink of extiction.

Anyway, the Japanese plan would not have been anything like a return to the 1800s.

Only because there aren't enough whales to do whaling operations like those done in the 1800s. They were joing up with various other pro-whaling countries to get the limits dropped.

[Hawkwings]

Well, there's this one group that's been engaging in semi-legal activities to stop the Japanese whalers: http://www.seashepherd.org/

Dunno how successful they really are, but they must be having some effect, seeing as how Japan is trying to get them condemned by the International Whaling Commission.

[Lord Zentei]

Anyway, the Japanese plan would not have been anything like a return to the 1800s.

Only because there aren't enough whales to do whaling operations like those done in the 1800s. They were joing up with various other pro-whaling countries to get the limits dropped.

They wanted to increase quotas, not to allow total freedom. This is a slippery slope you are using.

Well, there's this one group that's been engaging in semi-legal activities to stop the Japanese whalers: http://www.seashepherd.org/

Dunno how successful they really are, but they must be having some effect, seeing as how Japan is trying to get them condemned by the International Whaling Commission.

"Semi-legal"? They used to use sabotage.

[K. A. Pital]

They wanted to increase quotas, not to allow total freedom.

When a species is endangered, you don't wiggle around with quotas and shit IMHO. You outright ban it's killing and create terms for it's propagations.

[Erik von Nein]

They wanted to increase quotas, not to allow total freedom. This is a slippery slope you are using.

No, they're ultimate goal is to rollback the limits completely. And they're not alone on that. Besides which, even they're proposed increases would have a pretty large impact on the various endagered whales that they'd be hunting. Too much to justify hunting them for some people's dinner.[/img]

[Lord Zentei]

They wanted to increase quotas, not to allow total freedom. This is a slippery slope you are using.

No, they're ultimate goal is to rollback the limits completely. And they're not alone on that. Besides which, even they're proposed increases would have a pretty large impact on the various endagered whales that they'd be hunting. Too much to justify hunting them for some people's dinner.

You have evidence for the claim that this is their goal?

[Ma Deuce]

They hunt fin whales too? Aren't those horrendously endangered?

No more so than other species of large whales, in fact with an estimated 85,000 individuals worldwide they are the most common of the large baleen whales, with only the Sei whale's numbers coming close. However given their numbers are still estimated to be only about 1/5th that of the pre-whaling population I cannot see lifting the hunting ban on them for the foreseeable future. The species that is in most imminent danger is the Right whale, given how heavily it was prized by whalers (not only were they easy to catch, they tended to float after dying): There are only around a tenth as many Right whales in existence as Fin whales.

[Covenant]

I don't understand the need for whaling at all. However, as part of a system to maintain a population, I could see it being acceptable. This isn't maintaining a species though, so how could one justify or even begin to contemplate hunting endangered whales? Aren't we over-fishing our stocks to death? It's just baffling. There has to be a point at which people realize they can't keep eating the way they do until they start farming the stock themselves.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

I don't understand the need for whaling at all. However, as part of a system to maintain a population, I could see it being acceptable. This isn't maintaining a species though, so how could one justify or even begin to contemplate hunting endangered whales? Aren't we over-fishing our stocks to death? It's just baffling. There has to be a point at which people realize they can't keep eating the way they do until they start farming the stock themselves.

The Japanese right wingers have so much pride and self denial, I suspect they would do anything to show the west that they are not to be bullied.

The trouble with a lot of Asian cultures is that there is a tendency to accuse the West of being insensitive to their culture despite the stupidity involved.

[Chris OFarrell]

I still think we need to, for a season or so, send navy frigates to shadow the Japanese ships, blasting out 'Get the fuck out of here' in Whalesong over their active sonars.

After all, the seas are free passage for all no?

[Darth Wong]

The whales are certainly lucky that westerners have no particular taste for their meat. That's why Europeans can decimate fish stocks so badly that they have to trawl all the way across the Atlantic, just outside the international lines off the North American east coast, where they're trying to decimate our fish stocks too, and then they turn around and point fingers at the irresponsible Japanese for killing whales.