Australian gay bar wins right to ban heterosexuals

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Darth Raptor
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Post by Darth Raptor »

Invictus ChiKen wrote:Your calling gays deviants!? Explain. Explain now.
Get a fucking dictionary, retard. "Deviant" means "abnormal". It doesn't mean "wrong". :roll:
Where did I say that? That sure as shit wasn't my intention.
Right here!
YOU wrote:Every day is a special circumstance in the life of a minority. That's why they're minorities. It's not enough that they merely not be discriminated against; measures must be taken to bring them up to the same standard of living as everyone else. In the case of the handicapped, that's access ramps and parking spaces.
God, you're stupid. That in no way suggests that all disabilities, disadvantages or abnormalities are equal in magnitude or have the same or even similar causes or remedies. It's nothing more than a list of examples illustrating how the state helps people who need it for WHATEVER REASON.
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Post by Invictus ChiKen »

Darth Raptor wrote:Get a fucking dictionary, retard. "Deviant" means "abnormal". It doesn't mean "wrong". :roll:
Just like the word gay means happy, atheist means wicked and pagan means someone with no religion whatso ever.

Amazing how words change over the years in popular use is it not?
God, you're stupid. That in no way suggests that all disabilities, disadvantages or abnormalities are equal in magnitude or have the same or even similar causes or remedies. It's nothing more than a list of examples illustrating how the state helps people who need it for WHATEVER REASON.
Hey All I'm doing is pointing out where you said it.
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Post by Darth Raptor »

Invictus ChiKen wrote:Just like the word gay means happy, atheist means wicked and pagan means someone with no religion whatso ever.

Amazing how words change over the years in popular use is it not?
I used the word correctly. Your comprehension failures are not my problem.
Hey All I'm doing is pointing out where you said it.
"It" in this context is Pablo's "ethnic minorities are disabled" strawman. Which I did not, in fact, ever say. Jesus, I can't be bothered to argue with fucking fifth graders.
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Post by Invictus ChiKen »

Oh yes, using facts, a litte bit of logic and English as it's currently accepted and used is so fifth grade...

An if you dont believe me that deviant is an insult walk into a gay bar and start calling everyone deviants and see how well it takes...
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Post by General Zod »

Invictus ChiKen wrote:Oh yes, using facts, a litte bit of logic and English as it's currently accepted and used is so fifth grade...

An if you dont believe me that deviant is an insult walk into a gay bar and start calling everyone deviants and see how well it takes...
Who gives a shit? Using something that can be perceived as insulting in some circumstances can still be the correct term when used in the right context. Nobody would argue that using the term "faggot" wouldn't be a slur the vast majority of the time, but "deviant" has far more applications.
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Post by Darth Raptor »

Invictus ChiKen wrote:Oh yes, using facts, a litte bit of logic and English as it's currently accepted and used is so fifth grade...
You've yet to present the former and your own personal vernacular is entirely irrelevant.
An if you dont believe me that deviant is an insult walk into a gay bar and start calling everyone deviants and see how well it takes...
I'm an open bisexual, dipshit. I know more about what it means to be queer than you ever will. But I also happen to have a passable grasp of proper English and am in no way obligated to take your own personal version of it into consideration.
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Post by Invictus ChiKen »

Darth Raptor wrote:I'm an open bisexual, dipshit. I know more about what it means to be queer than you ever will. But I also happen to have a passable grasp of proper English and am in no way obligated to take your own personal version of it into consideration.
The challenge still stands. I know of a few gay bars that treat bisexuals as second class citizens.

An your starting to act like one of those English snobs that refuses to accept that the common accepted use of a word has changed. Deal with it...
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Post by Invictus ChiKen »

General Zod wrote:Who gives a shit? Using something that can be perceived as insulting in some circumstances can still be the correct term when used in the right context. Nobody would argue that using the term "faggot" wouldn't be a slur the vast majority of the time, but "deviant" has far more applications.
Okay after futher thought I concede. It's probably more of a local thing to my backwater of the US...

An Zod you got me thinking of that Simpsons episode where Martin said "Apart we are sticks, but together we are a mighty faggot!" With the classic definition impossed over the scene :lol:
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Post by Darth Raptor »

Invictus ChiKen wrote:The challenge still stands. I know of a few gay bars that treat bisexuals as second class citizens.
What challenge? I'm already well aware that some gays think bisexuals are faking it to be trendy. Homosexuals can be stupid and bigoted just like everyone else. What does that have to do with anything?
An your starting to act like one of those English snobs that refuses to accept that the common accepted use of a word has changed. Deal with it...
The meaning of the word has NOT changed. It STILL means "abnormal, deviating from the norm". You're acting like an ignorant boob who refuses to accept that I just made you look like an idiot. Deal with that.
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Post by Invictus ChiKen »

As I said Darth, I CONCEDE the point.
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Post by Einhander Sn0m4n »

ChiKen, Raptor, what appears to be the problem is that one of you knows the difference between DEnotation and CONnotation. Denotation is simply the definition of a word, while Connotation is the positive or negative perception that word has in the eyes of the reader.

Take 'deviant' for example: Deviant simply means 'different from what is considered the norm'. However, it generally has a negative connotation implying 'wrong', which ChiKen has gone completely pear-shaped and apoplectic about. Good-intentioned as that was, the target and manner of the communication was all wrong, causing a silly and unnecessary flamewar that turned this whole thread pear-shaped.

On to the OP: Firstly, how is there a way to enforce this ban? Secondly, discrimination is discrimination is fucking WRONG whomever the perpetrator or the target of the injustice. I vehemently oppose that shit!
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Post by Einhander Sn0m4n »

GH3TT0 3D!T: Should have read "ChiKen, Raptor, what appears to be the problem is that one of you knows the difference between DEnotation and CONnotation, while the other does not."
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Post by Invictus ChiKen »

Moving along... Exactly how would a bisexual be treated under these laws?

An I gotta know... what does pear shaped mean in this context...
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Post by Einhander Sn0m4n »

Invictus ChiKen wrote:Moving along... Exactly how would a bisexual be treated under these laws?
Hellavino. That's a bigass keg o' worms there.
Invictus ChiKen wrote:An I gotta know... what does pear shaped mean in this context...
Pear Shaped [I know it's Wikipedia, bust me back in port!Image]
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Post by Pablo Sanchez »

Darth Raptor wrote:You've yet to present the former and your own personal vernacular is entirely irrelevant.
No, fuck you, you holier-than-thou sack of shit. It's not his own personal vernacular, it's the American English vernacular, in which "deviant" is a loaded term that heavily signifies disapproval. People don't call A+ student's "deviants" because they recieved marks that deviated significantly from a statistical norm, now do they? There's a reason that psychologists use the word "paraphilia" rather than "deviant sexuality" when they talking about BDSM and such.

Sometimes a person's choice of loaded terminology is unintentional but reveals a lot about what he really means.
"It" in this context is Pablo's "ethnic minorities are disabled" strawman. Which I did not, in fact, ever say. Jesus, I can't be bothered to argue with fucking fifth graders.
Strawman? Fuck yourself, it's what you said. People on this forum apparently like to throw around the names of logical fallacies as if it makes them smart, but something can't be a "strawman" if you actually fucking said it.
This Dumbshit wrote:In the case of the handicapped, that's access ramps and parking spaces. In the case of ethnic minorities, that's Affirmative Action.
There you go. Now explain to me how is this supposed to be read? It looks to me you're arguing that access ramps are equivalent to Affirmative Action, meaning that you think ethnic minorities are handicapped by their race. I'm not going to play any "I didn't use those exact words" semantics games. Either you typed the above so as to indicate that you think ethnic minorities are effectively handicapped, or you can admit that you expressed yourself poorly.
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Post by Darth Raptor »

Pablo Sanchez wrote:No, fuck you, you holier-than-thou sack of shit. It's not his own personal vernacular, it's the American English vernacular, in which "deviant" is a loaded term that heavily signifies disapproval. People don't call A+ student's "deviants" because they recieved marks that deviated significantly from a statistical norm, now do they? There's a reason that psychologists use the word "paraphilia" rather than "deviant sexuality" when they talking about BDSM and such.

Sometimes a person's choice of loaded terminology is unintentional but reveals a lot about what he really means.
What do I REALLY mean, then? :roll:
There you go. Now explain to me how is this supposed to be read? It looks to me you're arguing that access ramps are equivalent to Affirmative Action, meaning that you think ethnic minorities are handicapped by their race. I'm not going to play any "I didn't use those exact words" semantics games. Either you typed the above so as to indicate that you think ethnic minorities are effectively handicapped, or you can admit that you expressed yourself poorly.
It's supposed to be read as examples of the state facilitating the lives of minority groups that face disadvantages. The precise origin and nature of the disadvantages is immaterial, as is their relative magnitude. For example, if I were to give examples of felines I might include both tigers and housecats. Does that mean they have equal size, strength, population etc, etc. No they're just examples of stuff. The only implications of exact equality among the items on that list exist in your fevered imagination. It might also help to read it in the context of what was actually being discussed.
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Post by Darth Wong »

Does anyone have any details on this ruling, as opposed to a ridiculously short reporter's article about it?
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Post by Pablo Sanchez »

Darth Raptor wrote:What do I REALLY mean, then? :roll:
How should I know? What I do know is that I don't use the word "deviant" to describe anything I do.
It's supposed to be read as examples of the state facilitating the lives of minority groups that face disadvantages. The precise origin and nature of the disadvantages is immaterial, as is their relative magnitude.
No, when you're trying to make an analogy that's worth a shit, it's kind of fucking important that the objects in the analogy should actually bear some resemblance to one another, and blindness and blackness aren't very much alike. That bullshit about cats is completely fucking off the mark and irrelevent, but I'm beginning to see a pattern here. Do you have some kind of autism that prevents you from expressing yourself properly?

Anyway, this is totally derailing the thread and isn't even that important. Why don't you reply to me so you have the last word, and then we'll consider it closed?
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Post by Aeolus »

Stark wrote:
lance wrote:From what I understand, its to not have to bother with men hitting on them.
For many, it's the illicit thrill of watching Real Gay Men Hook In. It's incredibly lame: ten years ago gay bars were mostly avoided by straight people, but this isn't the case any more.
Mot of the women I work with go out to male gay clubs almost exclusively when the want to dance. They say they don't go to straight bars because straight guys hit on them to much in those places. However I do know that atleast two of them like gay porn so....the illicit voyeur thing probably plays a part.
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Post by Lord Pounder »

I am a little dissapointed by this, though Before I make a call on this I'll wait for a more detailed report. Plus as a bisexual man i wonder where I'd end up with this ruling?

I know a lot of women who love going to The Kremin (Belfast's best Gay club). They can have a dance and a drink and won't have to fight off a lot of drunk guys with their wondering hands. More than once a lesbian has came onto one of my female friends, my female friend would say she isn't that way inclined and thats the end of it. How is that hurting anyone?
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Post by Darth Raptor »

Pablo Sanchez wrote:How should I know? What I do know is that I don't use the word "deviant" to describe anything I do.
Well I do. And others, like this relatively well-known image board appear to use it as a badge of honor. I'd much sooner use "deviant sexuality" than "paraphilia" anyway, because that includes heavy fetishism and pedophilia! Oh noes!
No, when you're trying to make an analogy that's worth a shit, it's kind of fucking important that the objects in the analogy should actually bear some resemblance to one another, and blindness and blackness aren't very much alike.
Blind people and black people are both minority groups that face disadvantages. Blind people and black people are both aided by the state in order to overcome those disadvantages and grant them some semblance of equality. Silly me, my analogies of gay people should have included gay people and gay people!
That bullshit about cats is completely fucking off the mark and irrelevent, but I'm beginning to see a pattern here. Do you have some kind of autism that prevents you from expressing yourself properly?
Do YOU have some kind of autism that prevents you from thinking conceptually and recognizing examples and symbols for what they are? Everyone else seemed to fucking get it but you. But for whatever reason, you singled out an imaginary, irrelevant claim in the midst of the real argument and proceded to attack THAT. Nevermind that was never my position and the fact that me making a claim like that in the middle of that post would have made no fucking sense whatsoever.
Anyway, this is totally derailing the thread and isn't even that important. Why don't you reply to me so you have the last word, and then we'll consider it closed?
Alright then, it was just a misunderstanding.
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Post by Pick »

I'm not taking a side on this ruling either way (don't care, really.) However, what about the lesbians who go to homosexual-oriented clubs? Wouldn't it be pretty damn frustrating to go to a club basically designed as a safe place for you to hook up, only to have an inordinate amount of false positives meandering about for their own amusement of the other gender's antics? I'm not saying this should be the cause for any particular action or non-action, it's just that no one seems to have considered that yet.
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Post by Invictus ChiKen »

What about the straight guys there?

Or lesbians and gays that go to other bars...

Or has Australia decided to go with seperate but equal?
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Post by Pint0 Xtreme »

Apparently, a similar thing occurred in Montreal.
Montreal Gay Bar With Ban On Women Faces Human Rights Complaint
by The Canadian Press

Posted: May 29, 2007 - 7:00 pm ET

(Montreal, Quebec) A woman who was turned away from a gay bar has filed a human rights complaint.

Audrey Vachon was recently refused service at Le Stud in Montreal's gay village after sitting down with her father for a quiet afternoon pint.

A waiter came over and told her father, Gilles, that the bar doesn't serve women.

Vachon, 20, says the waiter avoided looking at her during the conversation.

``On the spot I didn't believe it, I thought it was a bad joke,'' Vachon said Wednesday in an interview.

``I didn't say a word until I'd left. I was too shocked. I was embarrassed, I was humiliated, I felt guilty that I'd even gone there, like I'd done something wrong.''

Vachon said she would be the first to complain if homosexuals were refused service at a business.

Bar owner Michel Gadoury says Le Stud has banned women most nights since it was established 11 years ago. He says he doesn't understand the fuss.

``We're not discriminating, women have the right to come on certain days,'' Gadoury told Radio-Canada.

``It's a choice, it's a choice that my clients make, that they ask me to make, and we're respecting them.''

The bar, an understated spot in a flamboyant part of the city, has the trappings of a local pub with pool tables and video poker terminals.

On many nights it shows gay pornography on TV screens instead of the usual hockey game fare.

``Le Stud is the best place in town for a truly manly meat market,'' said a review on one travel website.

Earlier this week an Australian gay bar was granted an exemption to a human rights law allowing it to bar anyone other than gay males. (story)
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Post by Singular Intellect »

Maybe straight bars can ban gays, except on certain days. That way they're not "discriminating" against them. :roll:
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