Cindy Sheehan Quits, Blames Democrats

[18-Till-I-Die]

Three.....two....one.....bing!


Right on cue.

You're hilarious.

So what kind of 'mean names' are they calling you, near as i can tell not a fucking thing.

[Coyote]

When was she decided as the "leader of the anti-war protest movement"?

By default.

Oh. So pretty much anyone can walk up and do this, then.

Funny how she does that and complains about how they "... put personal egos above peace and human life.”

Why is that funny?

You apparantly do not see the irony in her very public position as the self-anointed "leader of the resistance" making a very garment-rending public bemoaning, and her berating of people who are overly concerned with their own personal egoboo.

In other words, she's engaged in a little spotlight-chasing herself.

If she can handle losing a son for the war whores, being slimed is easy. On the other hand the death threats (a Republitard specialty) probably weren't much fun.

Apparantly, she can't handle it. She was naive to think that getting up in front of the country and saying what she said would come totally without cost or pain. Far less controversial people get stalked, threatened, even attacked. Is she aware of abortion doctor snipers and gay nightclub bombings? The ultra-right in this country play hardball. Did she expect hugs & kisses?

I feel bad for her loss,

No you don't.

Actually, yes. I think she's been driven crazy by grief and ended up destroying her life in this fruitless crusade.

She was slimed and ridiculed because if there's one thing people can't stand it's those who have been wronged. People also tend to resent their betters.

The idea that she played right into the stereotype of the Damn Dirty Hippie, and automatically alienated all those with whom she most desperately needed a dialogue with to erode support for the war, had no part in this?

She sacrificed just about everything, fucktard. Calling her outrage a "martyr complex" is like calling Otto Frank's devotion to his daughter's memory a "victim complex". So fuck you.

She sacrificed everything-- AND FOR WHAT. If she had the brains God gave a duck she'd've taken her unassailable position as the mother of a sacrificed son and spoken with something resembling a sense of dignity. Then, when someone tried to attack her, they'd end up in flames like Annthrax Coulter and her snipe at the 9-11 widows.

Instead, she shot her bolt in a round of freakish showboating that did nothing more than more firmly entrench everyone's chosen position. Who is among her fanclub? Who listened to her? People who already have sex with their custom Che Guevara RealDolls.

[Coyote]

You're hilarious.

So what kind of 'mean names' are they calling you, near as i can tell not a fucking thing.

Golly gee, you're right, alas I am undone!

Jeebus what a moron.

[Darth Wong]

You call her antics dignified?

What do you look for in an anti-war protester? Do you honestly think that a wild-eyed shrill like Rosie O'Donnell, for example, is really going to sway people's thoughts?

Oh great, not this line of bullshit again. "Middle America is ripe for Reason, it just takes the right touch!"

Bullshit. Middle America is a pack of idiots. Cindy Sheehan could have carefully tip-toed around the sensibilities of the America First brigade with the delicacy of a fucking neurosurgeon, and the result would have been the same. What's more, you know it, even if you won't admit it.

The only way not to offend Middle America would have been to agree with them.

[18-Till-I-Die]

Oh fuck you Coyote. All you can do is say "She's crazy! She's crazy!" like most of the retards who hounded this woman, only you're less smug about it. Slightly. The fact you can type the words "played into the stereotype of the Damn Dirty Hippie" and not realize how fucking indoctrinated you already are to the bullshit the neocons put out is sobering. Maybe there are people who really dont get how far in the toilet they are. She didnt play into any 'stereotype' she just happened to call Bush a retard and say we needed to get out of Iraq. Please put forth evidence that she "played into the stereotype" how exactly did she do that? And please evidence that she's crazy too, since that is a constant unsupported claim of her detractors. I dont give a fuck about sacred cows but when some pussy pulls out one neocon talking point after another while simultaneously trying to smile someone far, far more ballsy than they are i get pissed. And i dont give a fuck if you're a neocon, a liberal or what, you're spouting their bullshit and have shown no fucking evidence of being anything else here.

Or you can do one of those idotic Third Grader insults like Lonestar and say "Well in 18's world blah blah blah" because i'm sure no one is sick of that retarded, old ass joke.

[Johonebesus]

How exactly is someone supposed to protest Shrubby's war? The right doesn't hesitate to "shrilly" yell, name-call, denigrate, and just generally act like middle-schoolers reveling in the dirtiest gossip. Sure, everyone here is going to denounce Limbaugh, O'Reilly, Hannity, et al, but let's face it, despite what intelligent people think, they aren't embarrassing the right. Sheehan wasn't nearly as shrill or irrational as the typical right-wing media type, yet somehow she's an embarrassment and is hurting the cause?

The fact is the right wing isn't rational or polite. There is no way to win against them. If you engage with them civilly, they tear you to shreds. If you fight fire with fire, then they lambaste you as being a nut-job, like Sheehan or O'Donnell. When Clinton just stood up for himself in that interview a few months ago, everyone in the media was going on about how he lost it. I personally think we need more folks like Sheehan . Maybe if enough people went nuts and called the right on its lies and hypocrisy, maybe, just maybe, enough folks would wake up that we might actually do something about it.

[Coyote]

...The fact you can type the words "played into the stereotype of the Damn Dirty Hippie" and not realize how fucking indoctrinated you already are to the bullshit the neocons put out is sobering. ...

I'm either with you or against you, huh?

[Ender]

Don't you know Coyote? In 18's world, daring to say the woman went off the deepend means that you're a frothing Bushite.

Hope that cleared things up for you.

But in Lonestar's world it takes two weeks to set up an incredibly lame April Fool's joke.

Weren't you the one shrieking about Sea Skimmer mentioning bringing up one of her statements above as a red herring?> Yes you were. Quit being a hypocritical bitch.

[18-Till-I-Die]

...The fact you can type the words "played into the stereotype of the Damn Dirty Hippie" and not realize how fucking indoctrinated you already are to the bullshit the neocons put out is sobering. ...

I'm either with you or against you, huh?

No, Jesus you just keep on with this shit. No asshole you're not with me or against me, you're just annoying me by throwing out a constant stream of neocon soundbites. Either you honestly believe this shit, and that anyone who openly, actively criticises the Regime is some kind of loony or you're a spectacular retard who honestly doesnt get what he's saying. Do you know how many neocon slogans, sound bites and strawmen you threw out in this thread? Maybe you're not some kind of Bush Regime koolaid drinker, but damn son you talk a good game.

Lets be clear: i dont give a fuck if you're a neocon or not. Really. I dont like neocons but thats a personal choice and i dont think this is the place to defend it. That being said, you've done nothing but repeat shit that they say whenever refering to Shehan. You're "argument" boils down to a Frankenstein mishmash of all the previous neocon "arguments" about the subject. Either she's crazy, she's a hippie, or she's a glory hog...and we jump from one to the other without EVER, EVER going on the assumption that maybe...just maybe...she has genuinely honest motives, like wanting to spare the families of other people, American and Iraqi, the pain of loosing their children. So yes i'm stunned that someone who is supposedly (i stress, supposedly) not a neocon seemingly knows SO many neocon talking points. Either you listen to them a lot, are one, or honestly believe them.

Do you know what this woman has been through? I mean honestly, she's gotten fucking death threats! When the fuck have the liberals ever sent Rush the Speed Monger or Bill O'Liely a fucking death threat? Never, thats when. If they had then those two cunts would have been all over the news harping it as a sign of how "crazy" their liberal enemies are. Yet the Right sends death threats to this woman and SHE'S THE ONE WHO'S CRAZY!?? Wha? Who shot what now? And lets not even get into the "brave, stalwart" defenders of the neocon cause who did just about everything but attacked her physically to try and make her go away. And now, she finally IS going away, and then they come out of the woodworks to talk about how "selfish" she is and how she's an embarassment and blah, blah, blah Freedom blah, blah, blah Bald Eagle blah, blah, blah Bush Wuz Right LOLZ.

[Coyote]

Bear in mind, that the "American people" are not sheepishly agreeing with Bush as much as some may think. Remember, on a good day his approval rating is in the high-twenties, max. Only 28% of the people actually approve of him/like him and the job he's doing, last solid numbers I recall seeing on the news.

The population is indifferent to what's going on, because the only thing Bush & Co. have managed to do well is insulate people from the true effects of the war. Tax cuts, low-key coverage of the "icky" parts of the war, no coverage of coffins coming home... People dislike Bush but they don't feel personally driven to do anything about him. Other things-- bullfuckery over Katrina, Gonzales, the slow & steady rise against USAPATRIOT... these actual, solid outrages are eroding the Administration over time-- not a "sit-in" at the Bush Ranch.

A strong voice of resistance has a ripe field for plucking. Barak Obama, unapologetic about his anti-war stance from the start, is garnering reams of support-- and he's not doing sit-in protests, camping out at the Bush ranch, or doing all that other stereotype hippie stuff. That message sold back in the day, but it doesn't now. I'm sorry if the placard-waving, bullhorn-shouting days of a thousand sandal'd feet tromping angrily through the corridors of power leaving granola crumbs in their wake had some personal warm fuzzy place in peoples' hearts-- it's certainly a romantic image. But what is needed is a plan, not just outrage.

At the beginning of this, someone said in a brief comment that she'd become more of a liability than an asset. I believe that was indeed the case. Hopefully, if she slinks away and rebuilds her life, all that energy can get channelled towards something useful.

[Elfdart]

But in Lonestar's world it takes two weeks to set up an incredibly lame April Fool's joke.

Weren't you the one shrieking about Sea Skimmer mentioning bringing up one of her statements above as a red herring?> Yes you were. Quit being a hypocritical bitch.

Oh I forgot, Lonestar needed help from Ender and two weeks to pull off a lame April Fool's joke.



Where was I? Bringing up Sheehan's views on oh, I don't know, the Kennedy Assassination, global warming, Hugo Chavez, who's the best James Bond or whatever else is a red herring since her political activism revolved around ending the war. I don't care if she thinks the moon landing was faked, or the Loch Ness monster framed Lindsey Lohan by putting the cocaine in her car or any of that other shit, because that's not why she picketed the Crawford Coward's faux ranch and it's not why she got slimed, fucktard. The war whores started flinging crap at her before she was anything but the mother of a soldier killed in Iraq, and an anti-war demonstrator.

Ender, go fuck yourself.

[18-Till-I-Die]

Bear in mind, that the "American people" are not sheepishly agreeing with Bush as much as some may think. Remember, on a good day his approval rating is in the high-twenties, max. Only 28% of the people actually approve of him/like him and the job he's doing, last solid numbers I recall seeing on the news.

They agreed with him when it mattered. Not now, when he's a few years from being booted out of the White House by law anyway, but when they could have ended this back an election or two ago. That alone is damning enough. If they had any real concern at all then Bush would never had won that second election...the first i can forgive, we all make mistakes, thats how we learn, by watching them and figuring out what not to do. But to do the same thing over and over again and expect a different result is simply insanity.

The population is indifferent to what's going on, because the only thing Bush & Co. have managed to do well is insulate people from the true effects of the war. Tax cuts, low-key coverage of the "icky" parts of the war, no coverage of coffins coming home... People dislike Bush but they don't feel personally driven to do anything about him. Other things-- bullfuckery over Katrina, Gonzales, the slow & steady rise against USAPATRIOT... these actual, solid outrages are eroding the Administration over time-- not a "sit-in" at the Bush Ranch.

They're indifferent because they're unable to do anything now. After the second election, many people realized they made a horrible mistake. Oops, too fucking late!

A strong voice of resistance has a ripe field for plucking. Barak Obama, unapologetic about his anti-war stance from the start, is garnering reams of support-- and he's not doing sit-in protests, camping out at the Bush ranch, or doing all that other stereotype hippie stuff. That message sold back in the day, but it doesn't now. I'm sorry if the placard-waving, bullhorn-shouting days of a thousand sandal'd feet tromping angrily through the corridors of power leaving granola crumbs in their wake had some personal warm fuzzy place in peoples' hearts-- it's certainly a romantic image. But what is needed is a plan, not just outrage.

Yeah that's right. ANYONE who protests or does a sit in is a granola eating, sandal wearing, hippie.

But you're not a conservitive, noooo...oh no, no, no.

At the beginning of this, someone said in a brief comment that she'd become more of a liability than an asset. I believe that was indeed the case. Hopefully, if she slinks away and rebuilds her life, all that energy can get channelled towards something useful.

Try being a little more condescending, maybe the snark density will cause you to collapse into a singularity. The only reason she would be a "liability" is because the Right has indoctrinated the people to see all protesters, all people who actively disagree with the government as...how did you put that...oh yeah, sandal wearing dirty old hippies who eat ganola and scream into megaphones all day. The fact that people actually believe such crap, that the best way to protest the government is to quietly keep your head down and play like this is some kind of high school debate club, is perhaps the most disturbing thing about the USA today.

[Elfdart]

Oh. So pretty much anyone can walk up and do this, then.

If you're the only one to stage a successful protest, you are going to be considered the big fish when it comes to protesting.

You apparantly do not see the irony in her very public position as the self-anointed "leader of the resistance" making a very garment-rending public bemoaning, and her berating of people who are overly concerned with their own personal egoboo.

She didn't anoint herself anything. It's just that she succeeded where people like Jesse Jackson, Code Pink and the others failed.

In other words, she's engaged in a little spotlight-chasing herself.

You are one dumb twat. Why do they call them demonstrations? If you said "because they are public displays" then you're right. The point is to bring attention to the cause.

Apparantly, she can't handle it. She was naive to think that getting up in front of the country and saying what she said would come totally without cost or pain. Far less controversial people get stalked, threatened, even attacked. Is she aware of abortion doctor snipers and gay nightclub bombings? The ultra-right in this country play hardball. Did she expect hugs & kisses?

And I've noticed that quite a few abortion doctors quit the practice and closed their clinics. Not everyone wants to be a martyr, which reminds me what a dumbfuck you are. If Sheehan had a "martyr complex" she wouldn't have retired, now would she?

Actually, yes. I think she's been driven crazy by grief and ended up destroying her life in this fruitless crusade.

She's not crazy at all. She just realized that after all the bullshit she had to put up with, nothing changed. Dubya gets to kill off more troops, more Iraqis will die and the cornholings by American interrogators will continue while people approve because torture, rape and murder are all preferable to Cindy Sheehan.

The idea that she played right into the stereotype of the Damn Dirty Hippie, and automatically alienated all those with whom she most desperately needed a dialogue with to erode support for the war, had no part in this?

There's dialogue to be had with war whores? I think not.

She sacrificed everything-- AND FOR WHAT.

You'll notice she didn't quit until the Democrats, after winning back Congress because they claimed to oppose the war, gave the Crawford Caligula another blank check. Were it not for Cindy Sheehan and others like her, I doubt the Democrats would have dared to oppose the war in 2005-2006. The fact that after all the anti-war efforts, Congress still votes like it's 2002 is the reason she's through with them. She's not alone: Congress' approval rating is now as low as Dubya's.

If she had the brains God gave a duck she'd've taken her unassailable position as the mother of a sacrificed son and spoken with something resembling a sense of dignity. Then, when someone tried to attack her, they'd end up in flames like Annthrax Coulter and her snipe at the 9-11 widows.

She was quite dignified, and last time I checked, Ann "thrax" Coulter hasn't suffered one bit for her smearing of 9-11 widows.

Instead, she shot her bolt in a round of freakish showboating that did nothing more than more firmly entrench everyone's chosen position. Who is among her fanclub? Who listened to her? People who already have sex with their custom Che Guevara RealDolls.

What's freakish about her demonstrations? Besides if someone entrenches his or her position because he or she hates Damn Dirty Hippies, Cindy Sheehan or whatever other bogeymen that cause the war whores to wet the bed, then that person is a fucktard and not worth the trouble. The problem isn't middle-aged church ladies like Sheehan or Damn Dirty Hippies, it's assholes who let their distaste for people like Sheehan override morality and good sense.

[Lonestar]

But in Lonestar's world it takes two weeks to set up an incredibly lame April Fool's joke.

Planning started a month ahead of time, but if you'll like to discuss the merits of whether soemthing is a good joke if the guys who executed it found it funny(even if no one else did) feel free to start a thread on it. I'll even play some violin music for you.

Or you can do one of those idotic Third Grader insults like Lonestar and say "Well in 18's world blah blah blah" because i'm sure no one is sick of that retarded, old ass joke.

I calls them as I sees them. And I didn't see you actually dispute that comment, just piss and moan that I was doing some "longrange sniping" at you. I'm still trying to figure that out.


(and it's spelled idiotic)

[Coyote]

18, you're funny. You keep going on abut how "you don't care" and "it doesn't matter" if I'm a "conservative" or a "neocon" or whatever, but as soon as you realize I disagree with you about Cindy Sheehan, you're like a screeching banshee: "Neocon! SHREEEEEK! Conservative! SHREEEEK!" Next you'll be holding your fingers up like a cross and doing the stage-hiss thing.

You clearly haven't paid attention to a thing I posted here, only the things that conveniently allow yourself to do the point'n'shriek. Anyone who isn't worshipping at the altar of Cindy Sheehan is an eeeeeevil neocon conservative Bushite Republidrone.

I don't respect Sheehan and I think her chosen means of protest, like some sixties march, doesn't work. Not in modern America. The Right has made sure that anyone who meets them on the field of battle like that is seen as just a pot-smoking layabout, with no serious or coherent message. Sheehan choses a form of communication that is guaranteed to be tuned out. That is not 'heroic', that is shooting oneself in the foot.

But, hey, I'm just a Republican Borg drone or something, eh? And I am known for my constant, unwavering support all the shrieking loony Rightists in the USA like Coulter, Limbaugh, etc. the same way you mindlessly cover for Sheehan.

[metavac]

Bear in mind, that the "American people" are not sheepishly agreeing with Bush as much as some may think. Remember, on a good day his approval rating is in the high-twenties, max. Only 28% of the people actually approve of him/like him and the job he's doing, last solid numbers I recall seeing on the news.

Thought this might be useful. Here's Pollingreport's track of the President's favorables and job approval. It doesn't include a track of the decline in Republicans, but USA Today had him at 86 percent last year.

[Darth Wong]

Sheehan choses a form of communication that is guaranteed to be tuned out.

Bullshit. She took a political position that was guaranteed to be tuned out. It didn't matter how she presented herself; Middle America considered all anti-war people to be enemies of America at the time she hit the national scene and you know it. Daring to say that she was totally against Bush and totally against the war was all she needed to do in order to be marginalized by the Right, even though much of the country has since come around to that position.

[Elfdart]

Martin Luther King was hated even though he protested the Vietnam war in a suit. People hate Sheehan because she opposes the Iraq War. All the other bullshit is just a case of people who already hated her for not being a war whore (or accomplice for same) and groping for any excuse. I remember a thread where several douchebags attacked her over her son's funeral arrangements. There's no limit to war whore fucktardishness.

[Coyote]

[...Why do they call them demonstrations? If you said "because they are public displays" then you're right. The point is to bring attention to the cause.

In in her case, attention to herself. She's resigning as head of the movement (chief of a herd of cats) and what? Turning in the keys to the executive washroom?

...If Sheehan had a "martyr complex" she wouldn't have retired, now would she?

Her public display of sword-falling-upon is sufficient.

There's dialogue to be had with war whores? I think not.

The 28% or so that still cling to the sunken ship that is George W. Bush? Those people couldn't be reached even with Divine Intervention. They're write-offs so don't waste time on them. There's still a mass of unsatisfied people who are fed up but don't know exactly what's going on, and don't know what to do or who to turn to.

18 pointed out that these people supported Bush once, but so did a lot of people, and not only when many in the country were caught up in the emotion after 9/11 and before Bush has made the string of obvious blunders and outright criminality. You know what changed a lot of people's minds, mine own included-- a reasonable presentation of what's wrong coupled with a pointing out of obvious flaws and failures that cannot be dismissed or ignored execpt by the self-delusional. Flower child displays had nothing to do with it.

You'll notice she didn't quit until the Democrats, after winning back Congress because they claimed to oppose the war, gave the Crawford Caligula another blank check. Were it not for Cindy Sheehan and others like her, I doubt the Democrats would have dared to oppose the war in 2005-2006. The fact that after all the anti-war efforts, Congress still votes like it's 2002 is the reason she's through with them. She's not alone: Congress' approval rating is now as low as Dubya's.

Congress clearly needs to do more, but they didn't get the overwhelming majority that the Repubs enjoyed leading up to this farce of a government. The media didn't help by focusing on the 'pull the troops out right now' mantras being shouted by many because regardless of whether it would work or not, it comes across as a knee-jerk response-- knee-jerk responses got us into the mess. A phased withdrawal, or a timetable, or a series of goals for the Iraqis to meet or we're out presents more of a plan.

More and more people, in all the surveys being conducted, are tired of the war and tired of the way it's been fought & carried out. There is resistance. You're certain that part of that momentum has been because of Sheehan's efforts; I wholly disagree and think Sheehan and her methods have done more to slow the process. Unfortunately I don't believe there's any quantified study to show what influenced people to turn away from Bush & Co. -- was it Katrina? Was it the length of time and lack of progress in the war? Is it just the casualties? The bungling of Armor? Is it that we've lost former allies? Is it something else, like the Gonzales scandal? Was it Sheehan's camp-out?

The reason I feel the way I do about Sheehan is because of all the compelling issues that tarnish Bush, Sheehan is an insignificant gadfly in comparison.

She was quite dignified, and last time I checked, Ann "thrax" Coulter hasn't suffered one bit for her smearing of 9-11 widows.

Didn't her last book sputter and die? She's not been anywhere near the "conservative commentator" she had been; she's now just the far-right's court jester.

[Lonestar]

Sheehan choses a form of communication that is guaranteed to be ridiculed.

Fixed it for you. As has been comment, once the whole "making crazy ass statements" and visiting Venezuela on Comrade Chavez's dime thing started, she burned her sympathy credit and put up the "has had some kind of breakdown" front instead.

Hell, her whole "I'm quitting!" release sounds like a person who gets pissed off at our board culture and goes "I hate you all! I'm never coming back!" and will inevitably return or hang out at the sidelines with the people who are willing to put up with his/her shit while taking shots at us.

[Darth Wong]

You know what changed a lot of people's minds, mine own included-- a reasonable presentation of what's wrong coupled with a pointing out of obvious flaws and failures that cannot be dismissed or ignored execpt by the self-delusional. Flower child displays had nothing to do with it.

No, what changed Americans' minds was time. The longer the war dragged on, the more difficult it became to believe the Bush Administration's constant stream of platitudes. All of the actual factual data was there at the time Sheehan first showed up, but Middle America was too goddamned stupid and pig-headed to take note of it. There was nothing that Sheehan or anyone else could have said in order to change this. The fault lay with the general population.

[metavac]

Didn't her last book sputter and die? She's not been anywhere near the "conservative commentator" she had been; she's now just the far-right's court jester.

Godless debuted at No. 1 and No. 3 on the New York Times and Publisher's Weekly hardcover non-fiction lists when it came out. Don't have exact numbers, but it doesn't seem like she's exactly hurting. And she was still a hit at CPAC by all reports while still making a splash with the Edwards 'faggot' comment.

[Coyote]

Didn't her last book sputter and die? She's not been anywhere near the "conservative commentator" she had been; she's now just the far-right's court jester.

Godless debuted at No. 1 and No. 3 on the New York Times and Publisher's Weekly hardcover non-fiction lists when it came out. Don't have exact numbers, but it doesn't seem like she's exactly hurting. And she was still a hit at CPAC by all reports while still making a splash with the Edwards 'faggot' comment.

Well, fuck. So much for that.

I retract that then, with my apologies.

Metavac, dude, you peed on my campfire. And my s'more's were just about ready! Oh, well, I'd rather know the truth anyway.

[metavac]

Metavac, dude, you peed on my campfire. And my s'more's were just about ready! Oh, well, I'd rather know the truth anyway.

Well, if it makes you feel better, she never peaked on Book Sense, which tracks only independent retailer sales. Publisher's Weekly and New York Times also count wholesale orders. I think I remember reading some criticism about how that made them unreliable, but I don't recall why.

[Darth Wong]

On the one hand, it's good that Coyote can see when the evidence is stacking up against him. On the other hand, it's still disturbing that despite having jumped off the Bush bandwagon, he still has a lot of Republitard in him. His diatribes against Cindy Sheehan stank of the same "normal America vs crazy anti-American hippie/commie/flowerchild freak" mentality that Karl Rove has taken advantage of all throughout his political career.