Moscow Gays Detained

[Ritterin Sophia]

Link

MOSCOW, May 27 — Police officers and riot troops quashed a gay rights rally in Moscow today, detaining organizers as well as at least two European lawmakers, while members of Orthodox Christian and nationalist groups threw insults, eggs and fists at demonstrators.

Barely had Nikolai A. Alekseyev, the event’s main organizer, appeared in front of Moscow’s city hall, when the police pushed him and several other demonstrators into a police bus.

Skirmishes between gay rights protesters and counterprotesters broke out across from city hall along Tverskaya Street, Moscow’s main thoroughfare. The general disorder made it hard to determine the number of people actually participating in the demonstration. Mr. Alekseyev had predicted 200 people would participate.

A man in camouflage clothing struck Peter Tatchell, a British gay rights campaigner, in the face as he tried to speak to the press. Officers arrested the man who threw the punch and took Mr. Tatchell to a police van for his protection, a police spokesman said.

Later, Marco Cappato, a European Parliament member from Italy, traded blows with another man wearing camouflage as the riot police looked on.

The police detained Mr. Cappato, along with Folker Bek, a member of the German Bundestag, but later released them. It was unclear what happened to the man who had been fighting with Mr. Cappato.

In all, the police detained 31 people, though it was unclear how many of those would face charges, the police spokesman said. Speaking by phone from a detention center, Mr. Alekseyev said that he had been charged with disobeying police orders and that he would spend at least one night in jail.

Representatives from the nationalist and radical Orthodox groups arrived shortly before noon, when the rally was to begin. The attempted rally, skirmishes and arrests were over within an hour.

Today’s protest was the second attempt by organizers to hold a gay pride demonstration in Moscow. A similar event last year ended in bloodshed when more than 100 ultranationalists and radical Orthodox Christians attacked gay rights demonstrators in Moscow.

As was the case for last year’s protest, organizers of today’s event had not won government approval to hold the rally. But organizers said protesters faced less violence this year.

Still, many gay rights protesters, some holding rainbow flags, others chanting slogans, faced antigay remarks from representatives of the radical Union of Orthodox Flag Bearers and a group calling itself the Black Hundreds.

A group of people surrounded one demonstrator shouting, “Sodom will not stand!” Several protesters were hit by eggs.

In contrast with some Western European countries, there is little public acceptance of homosexuality in Russia, where even prominent public officials have made disparaging remarks about gay people.

Representatives from gay rights groups, however, seemed undaunted by the violence and vowed to continue organizing demonstrations.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

The ironic thing here is that during the late Tsarist era that these people want to go back to in Russia, the govenrment bureaucracy was virtually dominated by a clique of homosexual men who'd supported each other's rises in the civil service. Granted, they were all in the closet out of necessity, but for a long period of time in the 19th century and early 20th century, Tsarist Russia was basically run by gay guys.

[Ender]

Not to be an ass, but exactly what rights are gays denied in russia that aren't also denied to everyone else?

[Ritterin Sophia]

Not to be an ass, but exactly what rights are gays denied in russia that aren't also denied to everyone else?

I don't know, could be the allowance of Neo-Nazis to to operate as long as they're beating on the gays. Seriously, from what I hear from Stas, you'd think they'd be lynched there.

[wautd]

I saw it on the news today. European politicean getting punched in the face by neo-nazis and the police were watching the show. I felt sick

[Darth Raptor]

Not to be an ass, but exactly what rights are gays denied in russia that aren't also denied to everyone else?

Marriage, adoption and now apparently speech and peaceable assembly. Sodomy itself was only decriminalized recently in Russia. Previously it was a crime to even exist. You can now add to that the state's implicit support of Nazis and Orthodox theocrats.

[DPDarkPrimus]

Last time there was a gay rights rally, the protesters were attacked and the police arrested the protesters.

[Darth Raptor]

It should also be noted that Yuriy Luzhkov, the mayor of Moscow, is openly and virulently intolerant of homosexuals.

[K. A. Pital]

Seriously, from what I hear from Stas, you'd think they'd be lynched there.

Yeah, you're right. And Neo-Nazis are very useful to disperse gays and get rid of them. Nationalists have also heavily infiltrated the police. "Public order" in Russia is restored in what amounts to stopping a criminal tidewave, but racism and nationalism have not been stomped out.

[K. A. Pital]

And please, "everyone else"? This particular state, I mean Russia, has virtually abandoned functions of public order and conceded them to semi-criminal mafias which also are tightly interconnected with local power structures (mayorates, governor offices).

Russia is run by thugs and there's not much we can do about it.

[Lord Pounder]

I read a report on the riot in, of all places, The Sun. Apparnently the brothers from Right Said Fred (they sang the I'm too sexy song) where caught up in it. Apparently the cops stood and watched the whole time only intervening if one of the gay's fought back or the nazi thugs pulled a weapon.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

I read a report on the riot in, of all places, The Sun. Apparnently the brothers from Right Said Fred (they sang the I'm too sexy song) where caught up in it. Apparently the cops stood and watched the whole time only intervening if one of the gay's fought back or the nazi thugs pulled a weapon.

So it's wrong for gays to resist being beaten up, but also wrong for the Nazis to use more than their fists?

[Lord Pounder]

I read a report on the riot in, of all places, The Sun. Apparnently the brothers from Right Said Fred (they sang the I'm too sexy song) where caught up in it. Apparently the cops stood and watched the whole time only intervening if one of the gay's fought back or the nazi thugs pulled a weapon.

So it's wrong for gays to resist being beaten up, but also wrong for the Nazis to use more than their fists?

Apparently.

[Big Orange]

I find it bitterly ironic Neo-Nazis have a major foothold in the very country that arguably suffered the most under Nazi German invasion during WWII...

[K. A. Pital]

I find it bitterly ironic Neo-Nazis have a major foothold in the very country that arguably suffered the most under Nazi German invasion during WWII...

I don't see a great deal of irony here, since racism and nationalism which constitute the base for neo-nazism are very much on the rise since 1991, and today nationalists (not open Neo-Nazis, thankfully) enjoy some popularity among the general people. But those "usual" nationalists are also quite closely connected with various fascist, proto-fascist and truly Nazi organizations.

Essentially the government in Russia itself is having a semblance of economic fascism (corporatism), so I guess there's not much wonder.

Economic relations decide the political relations, and an economy in crisis very often spawns fascism.

[Darth Raptor]

I find it bitterly ironic Neo-Nazis have a major foothold in the very country that arguably suffered the most under Nazi German invasion during WWII...

But these nazis (little N) see Slavs as the ubermenschen, so it's okay. Racism is only bad when you're on the receiving end.

[The Grim Squeaker]

I find it bitterly ironic Neo-Nazis have a major foothold in the very country that arguably suffered the most under Nazi German invasion during WWII...

But these nazis (little N) see Slavs as the ubermenschen, so it's okay. Racism is only bad when you're on the receiving end.

True, sadly enough. This reminds me of the Polish Skinheads that were everywhere when I visited Poland and passed the Ghettos and Holocaust camps.
The ability of people to be racist xenophobic idiots never ceases to amaze me, even when their grandfathers might have been those in the camps (Or those kicking their Jewish neighbors towards a patrol, but thats a different matter).

[Big Orange]

True, sadly enough. This reminds me of the Polish Skinheads that were everywhere when I visited Poland and passed the Ghettos and Holocaust camps.
The ability of people to be racist xenophobic idiots never ceases to amaze me, even when their grandfathers might have been those in the camps (Or those kicking their Jewish neighbors towards a patrol, but thats a different matter).

I heard about Polish racist skinheads who were direct descendents of Holocaust survivors, both Catholic or Jewish alike - something must be very, very wrong in Eastern European society if too many youths there want to emulate the very scum who deeply and irreversibly mauled their homelands during WWII (although most young Neo-Nazis are likely going through a phase of more dysfunctional than normal rebellion and hopefully snap out of it in later adulthood).

[Pelranius]

There's also a Neo Nazi organization in Taiwan with a claimed membership of over 1000 people (at least that's what their website claims). Funny how the RoC government bans communist groups but wouldn't do anything about Nazis "in the name of freedom of assembly."

More frightening, it's founded by a graduate student and apparently attracts a disproportionately high amount of college grads and such. Though I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the members were the usual cosplaying morons.

[Mobius]

Though I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the members were the usual cosplaying morons.

i think you are a good track if i believe the trend that are "in" in SK:
Linky

[The Grim Squeaker]

True, sadly enough. This reminds me of the Polish Skinheads that were everywhere when I visited Poland and passed the Ghettos and Holocaust camps.
The ability of people to be racist xenophobic idiots never ceases to amaze me, even when their grandfathers might have been those in the camps (Or those kicking their Jewish neighbors towards a patrol, but thats a different matter).

I heard about Polish racist skinheads who were direct descendents of Holocaust survivors, both Catholic or Jewish alike - something must be very, very wrong in Eastern European society if too many youths there want to emulate the very scum who deeply and irreversibly mauled their homelands during WWII

It isn't as much "society" as it is deep-seated racism going down the families of the fucks, the great majority of the neo-skinheads are anti-jews or jews and blacks (They lack the intellect to realize what "Semites" means), these grandparents might easily have been selected as kapos in the camps or might have been partisans killing jews as happily as they did germans.
Never underestimate the power to hate a minorty/human racism/idiots/Dark side/etc'.

(although most young Neo-Nazis are likely going through a phase of more dysfunctional than normal rebellion and hopefully snap out of it in later adulthood).

... . I'm thinking...That they don't.

[Netko]

... or might have been partisans killing Jews as happily as they did Germans.

I'm not sure about the Polish resistance in particular and their stance about Jews but since you included the entire Eastern Europe its important to note that Yugoslav Partisans were very much not killing Jews - some of the top leadership was, in fact, Jewish or of Jewish origin (highest ranking: Moša Pijade).

Some (pre-war richer) Jews didn't fare well (imprisonment and lesser pressure) afterwards when they expected their property to be returned (nationalised by the Nazi's Ustaše puppets) while most of it was (kept) nationalised (along with a lot of other people's property - for a long time after WW2 owning more then a house, if even that, was eyed with suspicion), but there is no question that they were not being killed as you suggest.

[The Grim Squeaker]

... or might have been partisans killing Jews as happily as they did Germans.

I'm not sure about the Polish resistance in particular and their stance about Jews but since you included the entire Eastern Europe its important to note that Yugoslav Partisans were very much not killing Jews - some of the top leadership was, in fact, Jewish or of Jewish origin (highest ranking: Moša Pijade).

My apologies if I was unclear, I was reffering to the Polish partisans. (I haven't heard any particular stories of anything like what the Polish resistance groups did to jews occuring in the rest of Eastern Europe, though I doubt the attitude was anything like that in the more enlightened scandinavian states).

I am aware of Tito's attitude towards the Jews (A relatively positive one).

but there is no question that they were not being killed as you suggest.

Do you mean in Poland (To which I don't agree) or Eastern Europe in general (A point I didn't mean to argue or claim at all).?

[K. A. Pital]

Polish nationalist groups were notorious, indeed.

There were also Nazi-aligned nationalist movements in Eastern Europe which participated heavily in the holocaust, killing lots of jews.

[Netko]

Do you mean in Poland (To which I don't agree) or Eastern Europe in general (A point I didn't mean to argue or claim at all).?

Yugoslavia and Eastern Europe in general.

I confess I didn't know about that aspect of the Polish resistance / immediate post war situation. Interesting, disturbing and sad.