Fiery Crash in New Jersey

[Adrian Laguna]

Normally a car crash wouldn't be news but this one is special because it has a video of the car in question (maybe AM&P is a better forum?). It bursts into flames. Let this be a lesson to all, if you speed like your ass is on fire then it will be on fire.

I've been trying to look for an article about the crash, but either there is none or my google-fu is weak. The closest thing is the video description:

A single-car crash at a Garden State Parkway toll plaza has claimed the life of a driver.New Jersey state police say the driver of a car struck a concrete "bullnose" between two toll booths on the southbound side of the Great Egg Harbor toll plaza, near Somers Point, NJ, and caught fire.

[Darth Mall]

Actually the guy had a stroke, which caused him to crash.


And New jersey is suing to try to get the video removed.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

The most atrocious part is the fuckheads who just keep driving through the express lane as though nothing has happened, and the little slimebag in the white car who didn't even get out to try and go see if anyone was injured and needed help.

[Korvan]

I think the guy in the white car that was stopped for a bit didn't get out because some sort of emergency vehicle was on the scene almost immediately. You can see the flashers if you look closely.

[Sea Skimmer]

The most atrocious part is the fuckheads who just keep driving through the express lane as though nothing has happened, and the little slimebag in the white car who didn't even get out to try and go see if anyone was injured and needed help.

Actually if you look closely you can see that the car passing on the left just as the accident occurs does in fact stop, and the car that comes behind him would have clearly been able to see the police car following close behind him in turn. The driver in the white car might well have being calling 911, and would be putting him or her self at considerable risk getting out into traffic. No sorry, not seeing anything particularly fucked up about this.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Actually if you look closely you can see that the car passing on the left just as the accident occurs does in fact stop, and the car that comes behind him would have clearly been able to see the police car following close behind him in turn. The driver in the white car might well have being calling 911, and would be putting him or her self at considerable risk getting out into traffic. No sorry, not seeing anything particularly fucked up about this.

They still should have at least stopped, gotten out of their cars, and waited for instructions from the police, who might have found warm bodies useful. It just seems rather galling that some people took the opportunity to keep on driving instead of trying to do something, or at least make themselves available if they were told to do something by the police.

Isn't it a crime in most states to pass an accident without rendering aide, unless someone is already doing so? I've always understood this to be the case.

[Sea Skimmer]

They still should have at least stopped, gotten out of their cars, and waited for instructions from the police, who might have found warm bodies useful. It just seems rather galling that some people took the opportunity to keep on driving instead of trying to do something, or at least make themselves available if they were told to do something by the police.

I pretty much guarantee you that cop would have told the people to stay clear and get back in their cars. He doesn’t want to see someone else burned or hit by a fire truck on his watch.

Isn't it a crime in most states to pass an accident without rendering aide, unless someone is already doing so? I've always understood this to be the case.

I’ve read that’s not the case in any state except Vermont, unless you’re part of the accident. Also generally cops/EMTs/firefighters are always required to render aid even when off duty. An everyday person does not have to do anything.

However in most states if you do decide to stop of your own free will, then you ARE on the line and are required to give all reasonable aid and not to leave until the situation has been dealt with or taken over by authorities. In addition depending on the good samaritan laws in your state, you may well be liable for any injury you might cause in the process of helping someone (these laws get really screwy when off duty EMTs ect… are involved). Say you break a rib on someone performing CPR but they live… they can then sue you for the broke rib in someone states, and insanely enough this exact situation HAS HAPPENED! In fact even if the law does protect you from liability, you can still be sued and will still at least have to appear in court to see the case dismissed.

Personally I would have stopped, and immediately checked the toll booths to make sure no one was trapped inside one of them. That fire was big enough that checking the car wasn't going to be any concern.

[Surlethe]

However in most states if you do decide to stop of your own free will, then you ARE on the line and are required to give all reasonable aid and not to leave until the situation has been dealt with or taken over by authorities.

Is there a problem with this?

In addition depending on the good samaritan laws in your state, you may well be liable for any injury you might cause in the process of helping someone (these laws get really screwy when off duty EMTs ect… are involved). Say you break a rib on someone performing CPR but they live… they can then sue you for the broke rib in someone states, and insanely enough this exact situation HAS HAPPENED! In fact even if the law does protect you from liability, you can still be sued and will still at least have to appear in court to see the case dismissed.

That's just fucked up, but in an emergency situation, I don't see why a decent person should hang back just because of the possibility of the threat of a lawsuit. Saving someone's life is far more important, in my opinion, than the possibility that the dog might bite the hand that fed it.

Personally I would have stopped, and immediately checked the toll booths to make sure no one was trapped inside one of them. That fire was big enough that checking the car wasn't going to be any concern.

Hell, the impact alone looked like it would have taken the driver's life. I'd guess he was going damn near 100 mph to zip by so fast.

[Adrian Laguna]

Sea Skimmer, I did look close, and I can see both of the cars on the left moving out of the camera's view. Neither of them stopped.

I think that without more information one shouldn't knock the driver of the white car, since the car did stop, unlike the two others. Now it may be that the driver of the white car wanted to watch the pretty fireworks, or he could be calling 911. It is also a possibility that the driver thought that being stopped and nearby was signal enough to the Police Officer that he was available should his help be required.

I occurs to me that the accident looks pretty dammed hopeless. It would be a pretty natural reaction to go, "Nothing I can do to help, so staying would only be bothersome to others." That doesn't make it the right response, but it's certainly understandable.

I noticed in the video that the Officer riding the Police car gets out and then runs straight toward the raging inferno. It might be part of his job to do this, but damn that still impressive. Especially considering that he has no fire protection whatsoever. Hats off to the officer.

[Isolder74]

Ouch. That was just insane. what was the driver thinking?

[The Original Nex]

Ouch. That was just insane. what was the driver thinking?

Apparantly (if Darth Mall is correct) nothing. The driver suffered a stroke.

[Soontir C'boath]

The most atrocious part is the fuckheads who just keep driving through the express lane as though nothing has happened, and the little slimebag in the white car who didn't even get out to try and go see if anyone was injured and needed help.

The way I see it, you're on a highway with cars coming up behind you in which stopping could cause an accident which is more headaches for the emergency services.

As for the "slimebag", the first rule of helping others, is to make sure you don't make yourself a liability in a dangerous setting ie. a car on fire. Frankly, I wouldn't either. The best someone can do is call 911 and there was a police officer right on the scene.

In addition depending on the good samaritan laws in your state, you may well be liable for any injury you might cause in the process of helping someone (these laws get really screwy when off duty EMTs ect… are involved). Say you break a rib on someone performing CPR but they live… they can then sue you for the broke rib in someone states, and insanely enough this exact situation HAS HAPPENED! In fact even if the law does protect you from liability, you can still be sued and will still at least have to appear in court to see the case dismissed.

It can happen but most cases are dismissed. The reasoning is that, it's better that something in you is broken than you dead.

[Surlethe]

The most atrocious part is the fuckheads who just keep driving through the express lane as though nothing has happened, and the little slimebag in the white car who didn't even get out to try and go see if anyone was injured and needed help.

The way I see it, you're on a highway with cars coming up behind you in which stopping could cause an accident which is more headaches for the emergency services.

They were coming up on a tollbooth stop. The cars behind wouldn't have been going more than twenty miles an hour, I'd think, and certainly wouldn't have been unable to stop or go around a few parked vehicles.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

The guy in the car might have been obviously dead, but what about the people who could have been manning the tollbooths on each side? Like Skimmer said, that's where humanitarian kicks in--people in those tollbooths could have been easily seriously injured by that fire before they could escape.

[Soontir C'boath]

The guy in the car might have been obviously dead, but what about the people who could have been manning the tollbooths on each side? Like Skimmer said, that's where humanitarian kicks in--people in those tollbooths could have been easily seriously injured by that fire before they could escape.

If I could skirt around the fire, I would go check the tollbooths as well but that's after I've learned how to give first aid and take action as a first responder. Pre-learning, I probably would panic and not know what to do which could have happened to this driver and the rest who drove on. Hell, they just personally witnessed a car crash that exploded in front of their eyes unlike us who saw it on tape. They're state of mind may not be as rational as ours are.

[Sea Skimmer]

Is there a problem with this?

Nope, the emphasis was just to make the distinction as clear as possibul.

That's just fucked up, but in an emergency situation, I don't see why a decent person should hang back just because of the possibility of the threat of a lawsuit. Saving someone's life is far more important, in my opinion, than the possibility that the dog might bite the hand that fed it.

That would tend to be my personal feeling as well. The thing is that many of the lawsuits come when the person that was aided dies anyway, and the husband/wife latches onto the Good Samaritan as the source of the death. That stuff can be messy and drag on for a long time.

Hell, the impact alone looked like it would have taken the driver's life. I'd guess he was going damn near 100 mph to zip by so fast.

I read a short article when it actually happened, it made the local news over a fairly wide radius into Pennsylvania, and the police estimated it was a 100mph impact. No reason or speculation was given for a cause.

[Soontir C'boath]

Liability is one of the main reasons why people do not help. They think that because they have no training or knowledge in this regard, they will do something wrong while giving care.

[Darth Wong]

Liability is one of the main reasons why people do not help. They think that because they have no training or knowledge in this regard, they will do something wrong while giving care.

That's not an unreasonable concern, and not just because of legal worries. If you're in that situation, you breathe a justifiable sigh of relief if you see emergency vehicles showing up and you move on. The fact is that they are the professionals and they know what they're doing, and you don't.

[Broomstick]

Actually if you look closely you can see that the car passing on the left just as the accident occurs does in fact stop, and the car that comes behind him would have clearly been able to see the police car following close behind him in turn. The driver in the white car might well have being calling 911, and would be putting him or her self at considerable risk getting out into traffic. No sorry, not seeing anything particularly fucked up about this.

They still should have at least stopped, gotten out of their cars, and waited for instructions from the police, who might have found warm bodies useful. It just seems rather galling that some people took the opportunity to keep on driving instead of trying to do something, or at least make themselves available if they were told to do something by the police.

Of course, if the person in the white car is elderly or disabled they may not have been able to render aid. Or perhaps they were in shock, having just witnessed someone dying in front of them, in which case they may not have been of much use do to their mental state.

As a general rule, the authorities prefer you not get out of the car on a tollway. There are exceptions, of course, but good samaritans have been struck. In fact, a co-worker in the DC office of my company nearly lost both her legs when she got out of her car after a minor accident on the Beltway and she, the other person, and both their vehicles were plowed into by another driver, despite the fact they were off on the shoulder and therefore out of the stream of traffic. (Her legs were crushed between her car and another. They're pretty sure at this point she'll be able to walk again. Someday.)

First rule of rescue is don't become another victim yourself. I think you're being a little hard on the white car driver. Yes, it would have been grand if the person had gone to the rescue. It would have been tragic if they had been maimed or killed doing so.

Isn't it a crime in most states to pass an accident without rendering aide, unless someone is already doing so? I've always understood this to be the case.

I believe at this point that is NOT the case in most states, but don't quote me on that.

[Soontir C'boath]

Liability is one of the main reasons why people do not help. They think that because they have no training or knowledge in this regard, they will do something wrong while giving care.

That's not an unreasonable concern, and not just because of legal worries. If you're in that situation, you breathe a justifiable sigh of relief if you see emergency vehicles showing up and you move on. The fact is that they are the professionals and they know what they're doing, and you don't.

Indeed, services such as the police will pretty much supersede the average Joe in giving help. Though if there aren't any trained first responders, the person can still call 911 and receive instructions over the phone of how to give care to the victim.