Starfleet's Best Bet against the Empire?

RayCav of ASVS · Post by **RayCav of ASVS** » 2002-08-02 05:17pm

The way I see it, there are three routes the Federation can go:

1.) Try to match the Empiresize-wise: Build gigantic ships that can match any and all possible Imperial ships. However, it is questionable as to whether Starfleet can do this, and if they can, that they can build sufficient numbers. Furthermore, they would still be stuck with inferior weapons, sheiding and armor.

2.) Try to match the Empire numbers-wise: this involves the construction of many small ships to try and overwhelm Imperial ships, or at least close the numbers gap. Once again, it is questionable as to whether Starfleet can do it. Also, whether they be Defiant sized ships or starfighters, they will still be burdened by inferior Star Trek tech. It may be questionable as to whether even fleets of these would hold up to an ISD.

And then we have option 3:

The type of ship that has the best bet against an ISD is still option 2, because it may be maneuverable enough to evade heavy turbolaser fire. However, you might not be able to pack sufficient firepower into even a fleet of such ships, unless you simply load it up with an insane number of warheads. And such numbers of warheads will be limited due to space concerns. Unless....

You take out as much space as you can, and make it fully automated. And replace the warheads with one large super-warhead, so that you infact have a mini-Cardassian Dreadnaught missile! Also, give it some weapons to fend off starfighters and incoming warheads.

Romulan_nemesis · Post by **Romulan_nemesis** » 2002-08-02 05:24pm

I donno man. THe Soverign or the Prometheus is the best bet against an ISD.
Or that new Excalibur class.......

Hey. If the empire won over the Federation, a 9 out of 10 chance, would it dismantle starfleet ships and replace them with ISDs or would they just let them be?

Rommie

Mr. B · Post by **Mr. B** » 2002-08-02 05:26pm

Their best bet is to capitulate faster than France in WW2.

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2002-08-02 05:26pm

Starfleet's best bet is to join the Empire whole-heartly. The Empire seems to work like that of the Romans. When they conquer a civilization, they assimilate it into their culture. While Federation citizens would lose their collective freedom, as Imperial citizens their individual freedoms would expand. No more commie BS. They would also be protected from their enemies like the Romulans and the Borg.

RayCav of ASVS · Post by **RayCav of ASVS** » 2002-08-02 05:27pm

Romulan_nemesis wrote:I donno man. THe Soverign or the Prometheus is the best bet against an ISD.
Or that new Excalibur class.......

Hey. If the empire won over the Federation, a 9 out of 10 chance, would it dismantle starfleet ships and replace them with ISDs or would they just let them be?

Rommie

The Soverign and Prometheus have already been discussed. And as far as I know, the Excalibur is the creation of typical ST fanboy wank-fests.

And what happened to the German High Seas Fleet and the Kreigsmarine? They were dismantled for scrap. That is all the use Starfleet will be to the Empire. Frankly, that is all the use Starfleet is to Starfleet!

Romulan_nemesis · Post by **Romulan_nemesis** » 2002-08-02 05:31pm

Don't dismantle them, give them all to me. Cause I'm the Self proclaimed Ambassador to the Empire. No other reason....I just want them. LOL.

And someone PMed me and I accidentally deleted it asking me why I liked the ST ships and ST in general. While many people say that the ISDs are the most majestic and beautiful ships in sci fi...Nothing will ever compare to the Enterprise-A. My own opinion.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2002-08-02 05:33pm

I'd expect the Imperials would retain Federation ships in a very reduce role until things like IR-3F's could be brought in or built. Basically they'd be used as system patrol craft, likely with the warp core removed for safety and replaced with an Imperial fusion reactor.

As for the Federations chances. They don’t stand a chance in any kind of conventional battle. The only hope is Ramming. Build swarms of small ships and have them ram. Defiant's and the like can attempt to keep fighters away as best they can, while older ships like Miranda's are also used for ramming.

However, that's only going to work for about 20 minutes, then there going to run out of ships and the Imperials will have a bunch of cripples which still have a massive firepower advantage, so long as they have one working turbolaser.

Course it would also piss off the Imperials, so it would be better to make a political accommodation early on, AKA surrender at first contact…

Mr. B · Post by **Mr. B** » 2002-08-02 05:35pm

The best way to use the old starfleet ships is to sell them as private yachts/cruise ships. They already have the plush quarters, entertainment facilities, and plenty of room for guests.

Romulan_nemesis · Post by **Romulan_nemesis** » 2002-08-02 05:59pm

The excalibur class is mentioned in a book that was made cannon by paramount
Like Mosaic was acceted by Paramount as the life story of Captain Janeway.

Rommie

Patrick Ogaard · Post by **Patrick Ogaard** » 2002-08-02 06:34pm

There really is no way for the UFP to match the GE, but it could certainly give it a try. All of these ideas require lead time and political will, of course, and it is quite possible neither will be available.

One thing the UFP/Starfleet has never shown has been the ability to produce a really small fighter the size of a shuttlepod, or even a personnel shuttle. What if they actually set about producing such a thing? It would still be grossly inferior overall to an equivalent Imperial fighter, but it would at least be something.

Warning: non-canon material incorporated hereafter, but not much.

Going by the shuttlebay sizes displayed on the good old TNG blueprints/deckplans, and the general sizes and layouts were not contradicted too horrendously by canon visuals, a GCS main shuttlebay could serve as a hangar for about 2 to 3 dozen large fighters the size of a personnel shuttle, as well as a similar number of smaller, shuttlepod-sized fighters.

An improved GCS equipped with a non-exploding warp core could serve as an improvised carrier for fighters. The fighters would likely be slaughtered wholesale by a similar number of Imperial fighters, but shields and ablative armor might actually be effective in protecting a Federation snubfighter against some Imperial snubfighter fire. Arming the larger fighters with single, full-size photon torpedoes at maximum yield could be a viable means of distracting an enemy capital ship long enough for the Federation capital ships to avoid fire long enough to deliver useful torpedo loads. Giving the larger fighters basic warp drive capability would make them yet more useful.

For serious carnage, produce a runabout-sized Federation gunship. Merely use a standard runabout cockpit with added ablative armor, and trash the rest of the design. Mount two Defiant-type pulse phaser cannon firing forward, which should be as long as the entire runabout. Also mount two forward-firing standard photon torpedo tubes. Fill the entire aft section usually reserved for living space with power generation and shielding systems, plus a torpedo magazine for a dozen torpedoes. Mount small conventional phaser strips strategically about the hull to give minimal coverage against the superior agility and speed of Imperial snubfighters. Add a compact turret to the top of the runabout, with a microtorpedo launcher and a wraparound phaser strip to allow the runabout/gunship to imitate the Millenium Falcon on the cheap.

Produce these gunships, as well as light and heavy fighters, by the thousands if possible, and you may be able to at least make the Imperials give you some respect as backward but courageous people at least willing to defend themselves. That is, if you manage to actually recruit and train the thousands upon thousands of fighter pilots and gunship crews you will need.

Another option would be the following: build actual battle stations.

It has been proved in canon that a station the size of DS9 (which isn't exactly big by Imperial standards, of course) can be moved at reasonable speeds. When properly armed, DS9 was also capable of taking on fleets of dozens of starships that employed Federation-equivalent weapons.

So...

Build battle stations designed as battle stations from the outset. Give them as compact a form as possible, with as much usable internal volume as possible. An ovoid hull with the same outside dimensions as DS9, but without the enormous gaps, would likely be best.

Install heavy-duty thrusters and an impulse drive system for tactical mobility, and a wimpy warp drive system for basic strategic mobility.

Put multiple, redundant fusion reactors on the station.

Include hangar and repair facilities for as many fighters and gunships as possible.

For defense, get the heaviest shields practical, install backups, and put as much armor on the hull as is practical. Compartmentalize everything with blast doors and decentralized systems, because you have to expect to get hit, and hit hard.

Fore and aft, install a navigational deflector/beam weapon like that the Enterprise-D deflector dish was modified into, and design the thing to work like a decent energy cannon. Install phaser turrets, turrets for microtorpedo launchers, and turrets for regular photon torpedoes. If available, also install turrets with multiple pulse phaser cannon. Make sure that each major turret is capable of independent operation, with compartmentalized life support, power and gunnery control. Finally, install rings of phaser emitters on the hull surface, 4 such rings at minimum, each equivalent to the primary phaser array of a GCS, if only to give the folks in the command center some toys to play with.

Place the first such station in high orbit around Earth, the next around Mars, then Jupiter, Vulcan, etc. For every two placed in other systems, place an additional station in Earth orbit. For every three stations in Earth orbit, place an additional station in Mars orbit, and keep going on like that until all major planets worth protecting are protected by as many battle stations as the Federation economy and industrial capacity can bear.

Remember to design smaller stations as well. A simple cylinder housing two or three of the Starfleet standard fusion reactor spheres like those found in the (not exactly quite entirely official) TNG TM should be adequate. Mount thrusters and a modest impulse engine on one end, and thrusters only on the other. Surround each end of the cylinder with a ring of phaser emitters. Inside the cylinder, running parallel to the longitudinal axis, install four standard torpedo launchers firing out the end that does not have an impulse drive system, and allow for perhaps a dozen torpedoes per launcher. Add the strongest available shields, and install four power turrets of the sort found on DS9, the turrets to be installed halfway down the length of the cylinder. Add in a small control center, some cramped living quarters, and a remote control option to let one manned small station to control several others, or a battle station to control a whole network of such small stations.

Any colony world that is not abandoned must have at least one small defense station in orbit to discourage nuisance raids, and more such stations should be produced to support the large battle stations.

In support of the small stations, produce similar stations without the full-size torpedo launchers and minus one fusion reactor. These stations are to be turned into base stations for squadrons of Federation snubfighters.

In the end, the Imperials will still win, even if the Federation manages to produce real battleships, but at least they will have given it a try. If all else fails, collaborate.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2002-08-02 07:22pm

I still say find some way of causing the empire to fall into one of the Starwars infous Paraleel demensions....

Cpt_Frank · Post by **Cpt_Frank** » 2002-08-03 03:37am

Now SF's best bet would be to pack their ships with explosives and send them on suicide ramming runs against ISDs. A victory is impossible, but that way they can perhaps cause a few Imp casualties.

Cpt_Frank · Post by **Cpt_Frank** » 2002-08-03 03:37am

Now SF's best bet would be to pack their ships with explosives and send them on suicide ramming runs against ISDs. A victory is impossible, but that way they can perhaps cause a few Imp casualties.

paladin · Post by **paladin** » 2002-08-03 12:46pm

Cpt_Frank wrote:Now SF's best bet would be to pack their ships with explosives and send them on suicide ramming runs against ISDs. A victory is impossible, but that way they can perhaps cause a few Imp casualties.

Give the Imperials a bloody nose and hope that doesn't piss them off.

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2002-08-03 12:58pm

This is borderline trolish so I apologise in advanced...

Federation's best chance against the Empire...capitualtion!

Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi · Post by **Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi** » 2002-08-03 01:09pm

The Feds can turn their exploding bridge consoles against Imperial ships. Or, they can use some new invention to jump into an alternate dimension where the rules are made by rabid Trekkies. Seriously, I don't think there would be a way for the Federation to win.

0.1 · Post by **0.1** » 2002-08-03 02:45pm

The Feds simply can't match fire power on a ship to ship basis. Their best chance would be attrition units. Now, I have no idea if Federation fighters (post Dominion war) has shields, but those coupled with lots of Defiants would be about the best way to go.

Maneuverability is the best thing the Feds going for them. The down side of course is that an ISD carry more fighters and the newer TIES are still too much given they have hyperdrives and shields. But the only other alternative is large starships slugging it out with ISDs in a losing fight. Fighters would have to be armed with copious amounts of nukes and need to be as maneuverable as possible.

The Fed fleet would have to be reorganized a lot. They essentially need to build what amounts to super carriers, ships that carry hundreds of fighters. Those ships must have the biggest, fastest engine anyone can put on them. They would probably have to be escorted by lots of Defiants. Their only job is to warp in, launch all their fighters and warp out. Probably reduce the weapons on the ship to remove the tempetation of engaging directly. The larger warships should be mostly replaced with these carrier groups. There are huge disadvantages to all of this of course, but it's the best that the Feds can do. In the end, it probably still won't be enough.

LordShaithis · Post by **LordShaithis** » 2002-08-03 02:50pm

Who cares about the Excalibur? It's still a one-shot kill for a heavy turbolaser, and it's a larger target to boot.

Oberleutnant · Post by **Oberleutnant** » 2002-08-03 06:21pm

If Federation would be assimilated into the Galactic Empire, I think that Starfleet could become some sort of home defence fleet operating under the authority of the member worlds, like the CorSec in SW galaxy. They would keep their ships, or at least a few of them, but first they would be partially modified up to SW standards. That's what the fate of Starfleet in Empire-dominated Alpha Quadrant would be in my opinion.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-08-03 06:31pm

They would keep their ships, or at least a few of them, but first they would be partially modified up to SW standards. That's what the fate of Starfleet in Empire-dominated Alpha Quadrant would be in my opinion

After of course everyone involved or disantly related to the people who designed the safty systems on Star-Fleets Ships along with those who did safty inspections on them are purged from the Gene Pool