"God would never do that, Daddy"

[Ritterin Sophia]

Personally, the idea of teaching your child any faith or allowing them to be taught a faith without them being able to come to an informed decision, sounds like artificially induced psychosis to me.

[Pablo Sanchez]

Giving one parent some sort of default authority to dictate matters of faith while the other must either shut up or risk "undermining" the primary is rather obviously unfair.

The mother is not necessarily using a bully pulpit; Stravo's daughter learned the tripe in Catholic school, which is a default choice for a lot of Catholics who aren't even that religious.

Anyway, as I recall from previous discussion of his situation, the girl's mother is the primary caregiver, so the situation is dramatically different from having both parents in a single household. This doesn't mean that he doesn't have a right to influence in his child's upbringing, he obviously does. If Stravo didn't want his daughter going to Catholic school and recieving the "God is love" indoctrination, or if he wanted to express the opposition viewpoint it would be his right to call a meeting with the mother, and she would have to make a compromise with him. But if he doesn't do that, the mother does have some default authority because she's the primary caregiver.

Even if you regard that as unfair, you would have to recognize that it's a very poor thing to "fight for justice" and tug the girl between the two of them. If Stravo is concerned about it, it would probably be better to let it slide during his weekend to avoid souring his daughter's visit, and then talk to the mother about it. If he's not that concerned, then I doubt anybody here has the right to tell him he ought.

EDIT-
Searching back to a previous thread one can find that Stravo indeed has concerns about it (or did as of 2003 ), but his belief was that the Catholic school was a better place than public education (very often true). With that in mind, one perhaps ought to raise questions and to counterract the Catholic school indoctrination. She's what, nine? It won't be so long before she has the intellectual ability to consider questions of faith (she already shows it in the OP by being troubled by the idea of God killing babies) and it's critical to prevent the propaganda from taking hold early on.

[Stravo]

Pablo,

Thanks for your words on this issue.

Let me clear some points here. My choices for my child's education in primary school are: Public school in the Bronx or Catholic School. Public school in the Bronx is fine if you want your child to learn the latest rap lyrics, street lingo and get 'ghetto' real fast. If you want your child going to a school with bars on the windows and the lowest common denominator of students hijacking the class room and learning the deeply flawed curriculum of the New York City Board of Education which is proud that it managed to raise its high school graduation rate to 56% this year then by all means send your child to public school.

But I want my child to have a chance at excelling in life, learning something along the way, benefitting from some discipline and enjoying an orderly environment while she learns. If the price I pay is that she gets a dose of religious indoctrination - then by all means I am willing to pay that price.

Though her mother is a Catholic the religious aspect of her education is a non factor. In fact we transferred her out of her previous Catholic school because one closer to home with better standards had a spot open up for her. No thought was given to the religious educational program. We wanted the best education we could provide her in the area where she lives and that means Catholic school. Reality sometimes intrudes on higher ideals unfortunately.

As to my challenging her with Athiest ideas - I went on this journey years ago in High School, traveled the road of the agnostic and then deist and settled into athiesm after much soul searching and contemplation. Did that all by myself. Both my parents are believers so I never got any leg up on athiesm save what I began to decipher for myself thanks in part, ironically enough, to a Jesuit education.

I think my feelings on my own spirituality are stronger and clearer because of the journey I took. If I start exposing her to athiest ideals does she believe or not believe because Daddy told her so? And on a more personal and probably irrational/romantic level, I like her to have her illusions of god and fuzzy lovey Jesus. I'm not about to introduce her to a colder world. She's 8. Let her have her fantasies.

Additionally, as Pablo surmised, she lives with her mother and her mother's family. They are all religious in the sense that they believe and most are practicing Catholics - typical hispanic americans. She sees me every other weekend. What do I gain by contradicting what she is exposed to at home? Why do I stir that up? Some higher ideal of truth? No thank you. Domestic tranquility is a far better ideal to aspire to with an 8yo.

I happen to think spirituality is a deeply personal affair and a journey of self discovery. I'll provide her some guide posts when she's older but for now, believing in Jesus, god in a long white beard and angelic choirs isn't going to hurt her. Am I supposed to actively discourage her to disbelieve in Santa Claus and the toothfairy too?

I welcome and indeed have encouraged a parents' views on how they handle their children's spirituality in this thread and I continue to do so. But assuming facts not in evidence - such as my daughter's mother somehow warring with me over our daughter's religion is just wrong.

I know some people like Mike may strongly disagree with some of what I've said here but that's what discussion is all about.

[Darth Wong]

I happen to think spirituality is a deeply personal affair and a journey of self discovery.

Right, so allow totally one-sided indoctrination from early childhood on, and see what happens. Why is this preferable to a balanced approach? It's not as if the other side is quietly shutting up and deciding to let her make up her own mind. They're programming her.

I'll provide her some guide posts when she's older but for now, believing in Jesus, god in a long white beard and angelic choirs isn't going to hurt her.

Yeah, there's no harm in lying to your kid, right? Of course, you probably don't see it that way. But think of this: everything you're saying here indicates that you figure the "neutral" position on religion is to teach it to her. That is quite simply not the case; the neutral position on religion is to either not say anything about it at all (from either side) or to give a balanced perspective, which is to say that both sides get to speak up. Censoring one side while letting the other side indoctrinate at will is hardly neutral.

Am I supposed to actively discourage her to disbelieve in Santa Claus and the toothfairy too?

Given the virtual impossibility of someone maintaining those particular beliefs into adulthood, I'd say they truly are harmless. The same cannot be said of Catholicism.

[Akhlut]

Are there any religions which honestly say "you can't join" as long as you're heterosexual?

Zoroastrianism doesn't allow converts, only people who were born into the religion. There's a similar religion based on John the Baptist that is in Iraq that has the same deal going.