The Agony Booth does Threshold

Bounty · Post by **Bounty** » 2006-09-27 10:08am

Part of the ongoing The Worst of Trek series, it's the one you've been waiting for:

Threshold

SUMMARY: Tom Paris, navigator of the starship Voyager, discovers a way to travel at warp 10. Which, until now, was apparently a "theoretical impossibility", and means the same thing as achieving "infinite velocity". His test flight is a raging success, except for the part where he mutates and his body can no longer process oxygen or water, and his head expands to twice its normal size and various body parts fall off. The holographic Doctor races to find a cure, but not before Paris kidnaps Captain Janeway, subjects her to a warp 10 shuttle flight, and causes them both to mutate into... no, no, it's just too stupid. You'll never believe me if I just blurt it out like this. Read the whole review, and just maybe you'll believe an ending this idiotic was actually scripted and filmed.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2006-09-27 10:36am

I will say this, the Braga bit at the end confirmed really he wasn't just a moron, but a truly special case moron.

Brannon Braga: I wrote the episode, or at least the teleplay. It's a terrible episode. People are very unforgiving about that episode. I've written well over a hundred episodes of Star Trek, yet it seems to be the only episode anyone brings up, you know? "Brannon Braga, who wrote 'Threshold'!"

Out of a hundred and some episodes, you're gonna have some stinkers! Unfortunately, that was a royal, steaming stinker. And... it had some good intentions behind it. It had a good premise, breaking the warp 10 barrier.

I don't know where this whole "de-evolving into a lizard" thing came from. I may have blocked it out. I think I was trying to make a statement about evolution not necessarily being evolving toward higher organisms, that evolution may also be a de-evolution. You know, we kind of take it for granted that evolution means bigger brains, more technology, you know, more refined civilization. When in fact, for all we know, we're evolving back toward a more primordial state. Ultimately, who can predict?

Unfortunately, none of this came across in the episode. And all we were left with were some lizard... things crawling around in the mud. So. It was not my shining moment.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2006-09-27 10:51am

So he's a retard trying to make a vague point about his lack of biological knowledge... but he doesn't remember? Is he basically admitting he was on a huge bender at the time?

Bounty · Post by **Bounty** » 2006-09-27 10:58am

Stark wrote:So he's a retard trying to make a vague point about his lack of biological knowledge... but he doesn't remember? Is he basically admitting he was on a huge bender at the time?

If rumours are to be believed, Braga was on a constant bender-slash-depraved orgy throughout Trek's run. I once saved this bit of a forum, reprinted from a magazine, but I haven't been able to find the source (yet):

Rumors about Braga´s private life buzz through the Star Trek fanzines, the Web, and the corridors of Paramount. His famous orgies, for instance: During seasons breaks he’d fly four or five uniquely skilled women to a hidden island retreat and frolic with them in various configurations until his juices ran dry. At tonight’s party he’s with a steady girlfriend - an exotic dancer - but Polaroids of once and future lovers still decorate his refrigerator door, and porno magazines skid off a living-room table.
"Look," he says, "I’m very adventurous, experimental person striving to live out whatever fantasies I might have. I’m not into bondage and S/M. I’m not into voyeurism in the traditional sense of the word. I am something of an amateur gynecologist. I’ve been known to utilize speculum now and again. The female body, as a functional instrument, obsesses me. If I were on the Enterprise´s holodeck…" He grin. "My greatest fantasy is to be with that fifty-foot woman from those 1950s sci-fi films. That would be the ultimate: To actually crawl up into a vagina."
Even as a kid, Braga had a taste for the unusual. He once drew a comic book about going into a Denny´s and being accosted by a born-again Christian. The story ends with the hero chopping the guy into pieces. After college (where he tried his hand at writing hard-core porno), he made a short film at the U.C. Santa Cruz film program called System Error, which features a stodgy executive (played by Braga) who goes inexplicably mad and literally devours himself in a gruesome, blood-soaked orgy.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2006-09-27 12:19pm

Only in Star Trek and Fundie Camp are the words "evolution" and "metamorphosis" considered synonyms.

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2006-09-27 01:38pm

Rumors about Braga´s private life buzz through the Star Trek fanzines, the Web, and the corridors of Paramount. His famous orgies, for instance: During seasons breaks he’d fly four or five uniquely skilled women to a hidden island retreat and frolic with them in various configurations until his juices ran dry.

He wishes...

At tonight’s party he’s with a steady girlfriend - an exotic dancer

Because Brannon couldn't just chop off his own right hand; naturally it went to parties with him.

Polaroids of once and future lovers still decorate his refrigerator door, and porno magazines skid off a living-room table.

Like some sort of sick shrine.

Brannon Braga wrote:"Look," he says, "I’m very adventurous, experimental person striving to live out whatever fantasies I might have. I’m not into bondage and S/M. I’m not into voyeurism in the traditional sense of the word. I am something of an amateur gynecologist. I’ve been known to utilize speculum now and again. The female body, as a functional instrument, obsesses me.

Having little actual experience with it, perhaps...?

Brannon Braga wrote:If I were on the Enterprise´s holodeck…" He grin. "My greatest fantasy is to be with that fifty-foot woman from those 1950s sci-fi films. That would be the ultimate: To actually crawl up into a vagina."

The word that describes this, I think, is "infantile".

Even as a kid, Braga had a taste for the unusual. He once drew a comic book about going into a Denny´s and being accosted by a born-again Christian. The story ends with the hero chopping the guy into pieces. After college (where he tried his hand at writing hard-core porno), he made a short film at the U.C. Santa Cruz film program called System Error, which features a stodgy executive (played by Braga) who goes inexplicably mad and literally devours himself in a gruesome, blood-soaked orgy.

Sumpin's jes not right with this boy...

mr friendly guy · Post by **mr friendly guy** » 2006-09-27 03:32pm

Its pretty apparent that when Braga says evolution he doesn't mean neo-darwinism or punctuated equilibrium, he thinks its a combination of larmarkianism and finalism (both outdated theories of evolution). Or in other words he thinks evolution works like the children's cartoon pokemon. Interestingly enough some fundies also think evolution works ala pokemon.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2006-09-27 04:03pm

Captain Asshat wrote:"Look," he says, "I’m very adventurous, experimental person striving to live out whatever fantasies I might have. I’m not into bondage and S/M. I’m not into voyeurism in the traditional sense of the word. I am something of an amateur gynecologist. I’ve been known to utilize speculum now and again. The female body, as a functional instrument, obsesses me. If I were on the Enterprise´s holodeck…" He grin. "My greatest fantasy is to be with that fifty-foot woman from those 1950s sci-fi films. That would be the ultimate: To actually crawl up into a vagina."

Because a giantess fetish is so much more normal and consqeuently praiseworthy than a bit of spanking... Oh wait...

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2006-09-27 04:13pm

Jeri Ryan sure knows how to pick 'em, doesn't she?

Sonnenburg · Post by **Sonnenburg** » 2006-09-27 05:34pm

Bounty wrote:If rumours are to be believed, Braga was on a constant bender-slash-depraved orgy throughout Trek's run. I once saved this bit of a forum, reprinted from a magazine, but I haven't been able to find the source (yet):

snip

I... just... wow. It's so out there, and yet, I could actually buy it given the shit I've seen him produce.

"We save Voyager, very simple: Borg chick, really big tits."

"New Star Trek show, calling it Enterprise. The hook: Vulcan chick, really big tits."

"I'm writing the final episode of Enterprise, going to sum up all the series, and of course, there's only one way to do it: Riker, with really big tits."

Jim Raynor · Post by **Jim Raynor** » 2006-09-27 06:27pm

NecronLord wrote:Because a giantess fetish is so much more normal and consqeuently praiseworthy than a bit of spanking... Oh wait...

Not to mention the possible vore:

Even as a kid, Braga had a taste for the unusual. He once drew a comic book about going into a Denny´s and being accosted by a born-again Christian. The story ends with the hero chopping the guy into pieces. After college (where he tried his hand at writing hard-core porno), he made a short film at the U.C. Santa Cruz film program called System Error, which features a stodgy executive (played by Braga) who goes inexplicably mad and literally devours himself in a gruesome, blood-soaked orgy.

WAY too much information about Mr. Braga.

EDIT: Braga's thoughts on evolution are hilarious not just because they're so ignorant and wrong, but because he thought he was making some kind of profound statement on the subject.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2006-09-27 07:13pm

Sonnenburg wrote:"New Star Trek show, calling it Enterprise. The hook: Vulcan chick, really big tits."

Fuck, that's not even original; they had a Vulcan with hooters in TNG The Schizoid Man.

Crossroads Inc. · Post by **Crossroads Inc.** » 2006-09-27 07:19pm

So when has wanting to craw into a Giant Vagina EVER been considered a 'normal' fetish

Kane Starkiller · Post by **Kane Starkiller** » 2006-09-27 07:25pm

Awwww man. Now that I watched that interview where he admits how bad the Treshlod was I kind of feel sorry for him.

Dominus Atheos · Post by **Dominus Atheos** » 2006-09-27 08:12pm

Bounty wrote:
Stark wrote:So he's a retard trying to make a vague point about his lack of biological knowledge... but he doesn't remember? Is he basically admitting he was on a huge bender at the time?
If rumours are to be believed, Braga was on a constant bender-slash-depraved orgy throughout Trek's run. I once saved this bit of a forum, reprinted from a magazine, but I haven't been able to find the source (yet):

Source

CDiehl · Post by **CDiehl** » 2006-09-27 08:45pm

Does anyone else find it interesting that Braga is described as having "tried his hand at writing hardcore porno"? How stupid do you have to be to fail at writing porn?

Cao Cao · Post by **Cao Cao** » 2006-09-27 09:56pm

mr friendly guy wrote:Its pretty apparent that when Braga says evolution he doesn't mean neo-darwinism or punctuated equilibrium, he thinks its a combination of larmarkianism and finalism (both outdated theories of evolution). Or in other words he thinks evolution works like the children's cartoon pokemon. Interestingly enough some fundies also think evolution works ala pokemon.

Some? I have never talked to a fundie creationist who didn't think that evolution worked like Pokemon; their typical argument being "Well why don't we see chimps turning into humans right now? BECAUSE EVILUTION IS A LIE!!!"

On a side note I think it's hilarious how Braga completely missed the point of why his "evolution" story was so bad. He really is a grade A imbecile.

mr friendly guy · Post by **mr friendly guy** » 2006-09-27 10:21pm

Cao Cao wrote:
mr friendly guy wrote:Its pretty apparent that when Braga says evolution he doesn't mean neo-darwinism or punctuated equilibrium, he thinks its a combination of larmarkianism and finalism (both outdated theories of evolution). Or in other words he thinks evolution works like the children's cartoon pokemon. Interestingly enough some fundies also think evolution works ala pokemon.
Some? I have never talked to a fundie creationist who didn't think that evolution worked like Pokemon; their typical argument being "Well why don't we see chimps turning into humans right now? BECAUSE EVILUTION IS A LIE!!!"

Actually when I wrote that I was thinking of a letter of the editor where the Fundie wrote (and I paraphrase) if antibiotic resistance bacteria is an example of evolution, when humans become to resistant to antibiotics what do we evolve into? But like your above example, both think evolution works like pokemon. I wonder if some trekkies also think evolution works like pokemon.

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2006-09-28 02:14am

Ok Star Wars I get. I have tattoos and everything. Star Trek? I watched every episode brand spankin' new, 'cept TOS. I was like, negative 28 years old or somethin'. But Pokemon? WTF are you guys talking about? What does a cartoon have to do with evolution and why do fundies watch it?

mr friendly guy · Post by **mr friendly guy** » 2006-09-28 05:57am

Its obvious that trek writers think "Evolution" works via

1. lamarkianism (evolution by acquired characteristics of the individual - see Paris turning into a salamander, John Doe turning into an energy being)

and

2. finalism (evolution towards a "perfect" or better form - See Braga's statement in the interview, John Doe turning into an energy being, Q's statement about humans evolving to eventually be better than the Q).

Both of these are outdated theories on evolution.

I pointed out that Pokemon "evolution" also works by this method, for example

Bulbasaur gains bigger size, better attacks when it "evolves" into Ivysaur (lamarkianism) and it also "evolves" into better form, first into Ivysaur, and then Venasaur (finalism).

I also note that fundies also think evolution works in such a manner. Coincidentally Darth Wong has mentioned several times a lot of trekkies he debates also turn out to have creationist leanings. Funny that.

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2006-09-28 09:57am

But Pokemon? WTF are you guys talking about?

In Pokemon, an individual creature can suddenly "evolve" into a completely different creature is it gets enough combat skills or something. That's the ludicrous position of some if not all, Fundies when discussing evolution. They would claim, if true, evolution should happen to a single individual at some point in his or her life.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2006-09-28 10:43am

It's not just Braga. Star Trek consistently treats evolution as a miraculous event that mutates individual members of a species to make them surge ahead to the next level. Look at Kes, or the TNG episode "Transfigurations", or for that matter, the TOS series pilot, "Where No Man Has Gone Before".

It's all part of the "Fantastic Four" pop culture misconception about mutation, ie- that it's an event which occurs during the life of an organism rather than something which happens between generations. That naturally affects how people imagine evolution to work, especially when they're ignorant retards (ie- 90% of the population).

Post by **Vympel** » 2006-09-28 11:44am

Heh:

Oh sure, it continued on for nearly ten years after that. Two more seasons of Deep Space Nine, five more seasons of Voyager, four of Enterprise, and even two feature films with the TNG crew. But it was over. Because that speech was the signal that from here on out, no chances would ever be taken with the franchise. It was now Star Trek, Incorporated, and when you tuned into Voyager every week, you knew you were getting the same product, just in slightly different packaging. And no matter what events transpired over the course of the episode, you could rest assured that the ol' reset button would be pushed in the final five minutes, and everything would go back to the way it was.

Such a good paragraph.

Post by **Vympel** » 2006-09-28 11:52am

Wow, this is gold:

Robert Beltran (Chakotay) badmouthing the shit out of Voyager

Marina Sirtis and LeVar Burton badmouthing Insurrection and Nemesis

Jolene Blalock calls the Enterprise finale "appalling"

I'd seen the last one, but not the previous two. Sirtis and Burton lambasting the shit out of well, a lot of things in Trek was very refreshing.

Kane Starkiller · Post by **Kane Starkiller** » 2006-09-28 11:58am

That really explains some of Beltran's acting. I mean he openly admits he didn't even bother to read scripts and barely memorised his lines. And really who can blame him. What with all that "reversely polarized tachyon beams" and shit.

That last bit with Geniveve Bujold was especially amusing. How the directors didn't want a captain that was actually tormented by her moraly ambiguous actions.