When the topic of the thread rapidly degenerates from "smokers who litter trash" to "smokers and their disgusting habit" (my summary of how the topic changed before I even entered into it), I get rather peeved myself.FSTargetDrone wrote:I really have no idea what you're arguing. You came in here whining about the "stigma" of non-smokers' negative attitudes towards smokers, that we see ourselves as "superior," that you wish to methaphorically throw full ashtrays in our faces because we make you feel marginalized. That we act "holier than thou" be criticizing such unhealthy lifestyles as you yourself readily admitted to living (i.e., a smoker), that smokers might as well be compared to "slave-labor," that we non-smokers are "Fucking elitist health-nut pricks, every single fucking one of you."
I already told you what I expect, and it doesn't involve the word sympathy...FSTargetDrone wrote:Do you really expect to find sympathy when you are challenged on such statements? Did you not think someone would find your outlandish claims of persecution in anyway defensible?
Just had to sneak that "your" in, didn't you? Regardless of your claims, you seem to want to use me as the mule to be beaten with a stick.FSTargetDrone wrote:It's so awful, non-smokers might expect and hope that those who do smoke would please not exhale your carcinogen-laden breath in our general direction?
And I never argued otherwise on the matter of second-hand smoke, despite my unconcealed opinion of your position and your stuborness in insisting that I consider such actions as that as being anything but rude and inconsiderate.
I sense, sarcasm...FSTargetDrone wrote:Great, wonderful. Kudos to you. You're a model of civil behavior.
And I have a problem with whiny non-smokers who complain about smokers in general.FSTargetDrone wrote:I have a problem with whiny smokers who complain that they are marginalized because they smoke. You yourself said, "You light one, smoke it, ash it when its done and later in the day light another if your feeling a little high-strung. When one is down to the last smoke, they don't take kindly to you asking them to just toss it in trash-can."
No, I don't expect you to find anything agreeable, much less this issue. Smoking in a non-smoking area shouldn't be tolerated, and it would be easy enough for said smoker to leave without having to put out the cigarette. Nonetheless I doubt that even touches the tip of the iceberg when comes to your issues with these people.FSTargetDrone wrote:Do you expect me to find this agreeable? Why should I care that a nicotine addict might have to waste his or her last cigarette because he or she is smoking in a public place where smoking isn't even permitted in the first place?
Why don't you start quoting the bible while your at it?FSTargetDrone wrote:You are fortunate to have had the extra time. But I don't care why you smoke. It's wholly irrelevant. I just hope you're able to quit someday. Every time you buy more cigarettes you are feeding the beast that's killing you.
If your mind is so delicate that you can't even be arsed to hear a request that said person could have no idea would rattle your senses so, then I think you have a big problem of your own.FSTargetDrone wrote:I don't hate smokers. I hate that they smoke. I don't have a problem with people asking me to do anything in the car, change the radio, roll down the window, take off shoes. I DO have a problem with such people asking to smoke. Period. It's troublesome to me that people who are otherwise intelligent can be so enslaved to such an addiction. But you are going to have to realize that people who do not smoke are probably not going to want smokers lighting up in their homes or cars. The arrogance comes when you even think otherwise, by asking at all.
Again, I MUST be subjecting some horrible fate to people in the front yard, while I'm in the back yard? Is that quite correct El Stiffo? Oh yeah, we DIFFINATELY have VERY different distinctions.FSTargetDrone wrote:You don't find it rude to subject your friends to your smoking? Okay, then we most certainly DO have different distinctions of rudeness.
You live a sheltered life.FSTargetDrone wrote:Not quite the clean freak, as my computer room is quite messy. Lots of stacked boxes and books on the floor. Some dirty laundry on the bedroom floor I haven't gotten around to collecting yet. Dishes in the sink that need washing. Not quite the same as tobacco smoke or paint fumes, though.
No, I don't. In my case however I consider my father's death to have been the point at which I decided to embrace "the beast". May or may not be accurate but would consider myself to be a good judge of my reason for doing things.FSTargetDrone wrote:Do you honestly think that a parent who smokes is not going to have an influence on his or her child's chances of smoking?
Your going to have to accept that you simply can't rescue everyone from their vices, their moral choices, or their political leanings. Sometimes one just has to let them, live their lives. People can do that, you know. They shouldn't be smoking around those who don't, very true. Should you be alienating them because they pick up a habit you don't approve of?FSTargetDrone wrote:I have no doubt that smokers can be good people. I never claimed otherwise. My argument is that the moment they start lighting up around non-smokers, they are imposing an unhealthy environment around those non-smokers. I have friends to smoke. Friends who I care for deeply, who enrich my life in ways I can't even describe. Which makes it all the more distressing that they are doing something to themselves which is adversely impacting their lives.
I have my own issue with drugtests, namely the number of ingestible foods and drinks that can cause a false positive depending on the test. Thank goodness my job doesn't do that, I'd quit.FSTargetDrone wrote:So now we are looking to score points? What is this, highschool? The fact is that unhealthy behavior by some people, whether it be driving without a seatbelt, not using a motorcycle helmet, driving reckelessly, eating to unhealthy degrees, excessive drinking, drug use, and smoking, all of those things are a burden on the health care costs. Why do you think some employers are trying to impose non-smoking on their own employees? Think it's to score brownie points? No, it's not about that, it's not about marginalizing the smoking employees, nor is it to make them feel bad about themselves. Such employers have decided that the increased health-care costs for medical insurance are adversely affecting the company. Some of them even want to do what amounts to drug testing to make sure that the employees they hire do not smoke, even outside work!
If by started, you mean responded when the topic shifted from smokers littering butts to smokers simply smoking, then yes. I guess I "started" this...FSTargetDrone wrote:See above. You started this by complaining that us non-smokers make you feel bad.
And I am as persuaded by your attempts to change my lifestyle as I would be by a Jehova's witness trying to convert me.FSTargetDrone wrote:I don't care if you choose to recycle the razor blade-festooned potato rape fantasy you seems to enjoy, but making what could be construed as a physical threat towards me ("curbstomping you" if I were to come into your home) is not something to be undertaken lightly. If you think you are going to scare me or cause me to back down here by using increasingly violent language, you are mistaken. I am about as afraid of your tough talk as I am of getting brained by a meteor this afternoon.
And I hope you don't preach to the wrong smoker, as not everyone is willing to dredge through this little debate peacefully face to face. You don't have to be a smoker to end up on a respirator, all that is required is pissing off the wrong person when you lack a few hundred miles of telephone line and ethernet cable to act as a buffer. Not a threat, just fair warning in the event that you choose to start canvasing. Stop now, before it is too late.FSTargetDrone wrote:And yet, I do not wish the same to you. I hope you quit smoking before you find yourself using a respirator, painfully wheezing as you cough up bits of blood and dying an agonizing death that is largely preventable. Don't let that happen. Stop now, before it is too late.
Until you grab a lynching crew and come to my house, no. But one does not have to be racist to be prejudiced.FSTargetDrone wrote:No, please, I want to hear more about the comparison to the hell various ethnic groups have suffered. Non-smokers' pissy attitudes towards smokers is just like rampant racism, is that what you meant to claim?
You just happen to be right, this is going nowhere. You'll keep implying something dreadfull is wrong with us and I'll keep calling you an asshole for it. No more discussion value as it appears neither one of us is willing to accept the opinion of the other, or even try to understand the contradicting viewpoints. Maybe its just a misunderstanding but I nolonger wish to converse with you about this matter, not worth my time. Agree to disagree I guess.FSTargetDrone wrote:I don't care that you use insults or lace your posts with strings of profanity. Some of them are quite entertaining. You can type "fuck" every other word for all I care. But when the bulk of your replies degenerate into little more than increasingly dull ways of attempting to insult me, and then the questionable use of a threat towards me, you are not arguing anything at all.
Later.
