Another Correction For BaldStar...

[Lord Poe]

BaldStar claims that the Romulan plasma weapon in "Balance of Terror"
'maneuvered' to follow the Enterprise after it was fired

I claim Rogaine jockey is purposely misrepresenting the scene, and that the
pulsating plasma ball is on a straight course.

When we first see the plasma weapon fired, we can clearly see it pulsating;
growing bigger and then smaller as it travels:

http://h4h.com/louis/baldy1.mpv

Now, when the plasma weapon is fired at the Enterprise, Kirk orders
emergency warp. We see the ship firing, then come back to a scene asking if
they have achieved emergency warp. Sulu answers, and then we see another
shot of the plasma ball:

http://h4h.com/louis/baldy2.mpv

Now, BaldStar claims this ball MANEUVERED. Even though, the ship that fired
it allegedly can't even achieve warp. Not only that, but I don't believe
we've ever seen an energy weapon home in on a target. Now, wouldn't it make
MORE sense that, when Kirk orders emergency warp, the Enterprise clearly
didn't have time to spin around yet, (warp pivot, which is done in "Elaan of
Troyus") but as the stars show, the ship IS traveling "backward" from the
Romulan ship? Then when we switch back to Kirk, then back to the viewscreen,
wouldn't it make MORE sense that, by that time, Sulu has had time for the
warp pivot, and the ship is pointed AWAY from the plasma ball, and in fact,
we are seeing the ball on ANOTHER external camera?

Note that the ball is SMALLER in the second scene, lending weight to the
above theory. Unless BaldStar wants us to believe that the plasma ball was
courteous enough to slow down for few seconds...

[DarkStar]

BaldStar claims that the Romulan plasma weapon in "Balance of Terror"
'maneuvered' to follow the Enterprise after it was fired

I claim Rogaine jockey is purposely misrepresenting the scene, and that the
pulsating plasma ball is on a straight course.

Man, that "Darth Mullet" thing really got to you.

When we first see the plasma weapon fired, we can clearly see it pulsating;
growing bigger and then smaller as it travels:

http://h4h.com/louis/baldy1.mpv

Duh. Nice waste of your server space.

Now, when the plasma weapon is fired at the Enterprise, Kirk orders
emergency warp. We see the ship firing, then come back to a scene asking if
they have achieved emergency warp. Sulu answers, and then we see another
shot of the plasma ball:

http://h4h.com/louis/baldy2.mpv

There we go. I knew you could digitize the right scene.

Now, BaldStar claims this ball MANEUVERED.

It was fired from above the plane of the ship. When the ship started zipping backward at a speed faster than light, the object continued to follow them. Had it been a straight-shooting weapon, it would have continued on a downward trajectory. This is really simple. I don't understand how the concept eludes you.

Even though, the ship that fired it allegedly can't even achieve warp.

Man, there's a bullshit story I never get tired of hearing. No, wait, I did get tired of it long ago.

Not only that, but I don't believe we've ever seen an energy weapon home in on a target.

V'ger fired some, and the Defiant's phaser pulses were once seen to turn along with the ship. (I personally consider it an FX gaffe, but that argument isn't allowed in most ST/SW quarters.)

Now, wouldn't it make
MORE sense that, when Kirk orders emergency warp, the Enterprise clearly
didn't have time to spin around yet, (warp pivot, which is done in "Elaan of
Troyus")

It's about damn time you admit that they pivoted.

but as the stars show, the ship IS traveling "backward" from the
Romulan ship? Then when we switch back to Kirk, then back to the viewscreen,
wouldn't it make MORE sense that, by that time, Sulu has had time for the
warp pivot, and the ship is pointed AWAY from the plasma ball, and in fact,
we are seeing the ball on ANOTHER external camera?

No, it wouldn't. We see the stars moving toward the ship, then Kirk learns the Romulans are decloaking. Kirk guesses their move, orders "full astern, emergency warp speed" (your second video begins there), and we see the Romulan ship fire. When the Romulans fire, the stars are already moving in reverse, and there are no further turning orders. Those reversing stars are heading toward a point below the plasma weapon. By the next viewscreen shot, they are headed toward a point behind the plasma weapon.

Note that the ball is SMALLER in the second scene, lending weight to the above theory. Unless BaldStar wants us to believe that the plasma ball was courteous enough to slow down for few seconds...

Geez... whatever crackwhore format you put that movie in sucks. I can't get anything but Windows junk to open it, so I can't go counting pixels.

But, yes, it does appear to be about ten percent smaller... and in the center, instead of the upper left of the screen where it started out. Oh, right, I forgot that makes your theory look stupid. Sorry.

The idea that you're missing isn't that the plasma weapon slowed... the Enterprise was speeding up. The most you can claim out of the smaller plasma weapon was that the magnification on the screen changed. But, changing magnification, or even entire cameras, isn't going to change the direction of the ship's travel, or the direction of travel of the plasma weapon. There is no evidence that the ship changed direction of travel (well, except for reversing), so the plasma ball must have.

Are you still going to argue your stupid point, or face the facts?

[Mr Bean]

*Question Dark Mullet because I agree with Darkstar that picture is distirbed
How is being bald a bad thing agian?
Besides a lack of heat retition in the Winter which can be solved by any numbers of meansures(Hats, Cats, Hoods,Hairpieces) there are no real disadvantages
In the summer you would stay cooler do to lack of heat retition
Prehaps you could even glue a heatsink where your hair would have been to increase heat-disperson.
Lack of mating does not seem to be a problem because Bald men producde more teststeron so then what are the disadvatanges of being Bald
And if you can't think of anything don't you need a better insult than Baldstar?
Its almost a complement

[The Yosemite Bear]

I am bald and I have a thsarus full of nicknames for Dumbstar, or was it <Bleap>star, <Bleap>sore, idiot, Dumbkof, Sheikof, Neutronstar, Quantum Singularity of Intellgent Thought, Creature with attention span below that of a Ferret or Hummingbird, Detlevstar, and many others.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

Well, there was that time in the Spock thread where Poe kept calling him Fuckface.

[Stravo]

Well, there was that time in the Spock thread where Poe kept calling him Fuckface.

Ahhh, those were the days....

[Lord Poe]

I claim Rogaine jockey is purposely misrepresenting the scene, and that the pulsating plasma ball is on a straight course.

Man, that "Darth Mullet" thing really got to you.

Once again, nope. Like every other argument of yours that has been shot down in flames here and elsewhere, the hair to the left isn't a "mullet". The haircut I CURRENTLY have would definitely be considered a mullet, but that one is just long hair. I simply notice your obsession with my hair for what it is- envy to the "follicly challenged".

It was fired from above the plane of the ship.

It was fired from direct center.
When the ship started zipping backward at a speed faster than light, the object continued to follow them. Had it been a straight-shooting weapon, it would have continued on a downward trajectory. This is really simple. I don't understand how the concept eludes you.[/quote]
Probably because its idiocy is immediately canceled. Not only do you assume incorrectly that it was "pointing down", but that the weapon is "fixed" and can't fire off-center. Rather, you stick to the more ludicrous assumption that the plasma ball adjusted its course for no reason against a target that wasn't maneuvering.

Even though, the ship that fired it allegedly can't even achieve warp.
Man, there's a bullshit story I never get tired of hearing. No, wait, I did get tired of it long ago.

Ah yes, another Trekkie that insists that Scotty MUST be wrong when he said the ship's power was "simple impulse". That's right up there with "DS9 wasn't missing all those Klingon ships; they were firing at ships off camera!"

Not only that, but I don't believe we've ever seen an energy weapon home in on a target.
V'ger fired some,

V'ger's weapons never adjusted course after being fired. Didn't need to since not one of its targets even tried to evade.

and the Defiant's phaser pulses were once seen to turn along with the ship.

Can you be any more vague?
It's about damn time you admit that they pivoted.[/quote]
Wrong once again. I've never disputed it.
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=warp+ ... com&rnum=2
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=warp+ ... com&rnum=3

but as the stars show, the ship IS traveling "backward" from the
Romulan ship? Then when we switch back to Kirk, then back to the viewscreen,
wouldn't it make MORE sense that, by that time, Sulu has had time for the
warp pivot, and the ship is pointed AWAY from the plasma ball, and in fact,
we are seeing the ball on ANOTHER external camera?

No, it wouldn't. We see the stars moving toward the ship, then Kirk learns the Romulans are decloaking. Kirk guesses their move, orders "full astern, emergency warp speed" (your second video begins there), and we see the Romulan ship fire. When the Romulans fire, the stars are already moving in reverse, and there are no further turning orders.

This doesn't mean they were already turned around. We've seen the speed of a "warp pivot", and its far from immediate.

Those reversing stars are heading toward a point below the plasma weapon. By the next viewscreen shot, they are headed toward a point behind the plasma weapon.

Yup, when the Enterprise has already completed its turn.

Geez... whatever crackwhore format you put that movie in sucks. I can't get anything but Windows junk to open it, so I can't go counting pixels.

Yes, well, Quicktime MPVIS one of the more underground formats...

But, yes, it does appear to be about ten percent smaller... and in the center, instead of the upper left of the screen where it started out. Oh, right, I forgot that makes your theory look stupid. Sorry.

You're projecting again, since it fully supports my theory-- new camera angle.

The idea that you're missing isn't that the plasma weapon slowed... the Enterprise was speeding up.

No shit. Really? Your theory is the one that allows us idiotic assumptions like the plasma ball can course correct (for no reason) and therefore slow down (for no reason). My theory fits all the facts, without making up a theory so idiotic that even a spacebattles.com resident would laugh at it.

The most you can claim out of the smaller plasma weapon was that the magnification on the screen changed.

Incorrect. Anytime there is a screen magnification change, Kirk orders it. He didn't.

But, changing magnification, or even entire cameras, isn't going to change the direction of the ship's travel, or the direction of travel of the plasma weapon.

It will if the object is being shot from a different perspective.

There is no evidence that the ship changed direction of travel (well, except for reversing), so the plasma ball must have.

Yes, that the most logical explanation.

Are you still going to argue your stupid point, or face the facts?

Ok, I admit it. The fact is, you ARE an idiot.

[Lord Poe]

*Question Dark Mullet because I agree with Darkstar that picture is distirbed
How is being bald a bad thing agian?

Did I say it was a bad thing? I'm merely responding in kind to BaldStar. As you can see, someone so obsessed with my long hair must be feeling quite inadequate with his Male Pattern Baldness.

[His Divine Shadow]

*Question Dark Mullet because I agree with Darkstar that picture is distirbed
How is being bald a bad thing agian?

Did I say it was a bad thing? I'm merely responding in kind to BaldStar. As you can see, someone so obsessed with my long hair must be feeling quite inadequate with his Male Pattern Baldness.

Jeez, poor BaldStar, just a pre-teen and already he's gone bald.

[DarkStar]

I claim Rogaine jockey is purposely misrepresenting the scene, and that the pulsating plasma ball is on a straight course.

Man, that "Darth Mullet" thing really got to you.

Once again, nope. Like every other argument of yours that has been shot down in flames here and elsewhere, the hair to the left isn't a "mullet". The haircut I CURRENTLY have would definitely be considered a mullet, but that one is just long hair. I simply notice your obsession with my hair for what it is- envy to the "follicly challenged".

Actually, my hair is approaching the length of yours, but I freely admit (and take pride in the fact) that it isn't the bouffant coiffure (or any other faggy poodle terms which apply) that your megamullet represents. If you now have a less bouffant mullet, my congratulations. But, you are still Darth Mullet either way it goes.

It was fired from above the plane of the ship.

It was fired from direct center.

Oh, please... we can all see it, you lying whore. All you have to do is draw a damn X with lines from viewer corner to viewer corner, and see that the plasma weapon is not centered, even though the moving stars were.

When the ship started zipping backward at a speed faster than light, the object continued to follow them. Had it been a straight-shooting weapon, it would have continued on a downward trajectory. This is really simple. I don't understand how the concept eludes you.

Probably because its idiocy is immediately canceled. Not only do you assume incorrectly that it was "pointing down", but that the weapon is "fixed" and can't fire off-center. Rather, you stick to the more ludicrous assumption that the plasma ball adjusted its course for no reason against a target that wasn't maneuvering.

Your hair-care products have gone to your brain. Let me spell it out for you:

The Romulan ship was above the plane of the Enterprise. (The orientation or firing arc of the Romulan ship doesn't matter.) In order to hit the Enterprise, it would have to fire the weapon on a trajectory which, from the Enterprise's perspective, would be downward. The Enterprise reversed engines and flew backwards at high speed. Instead of continuing the downward trajectory, the object followed them from the front, on the same plane.

A plane change involves a turn. Therefore, the plasma weapon turned. If it turned, it must be capable of maneuvering.

The more you argue against this simple point, the dumber you look.

Even though, the ship that fired it allegedly can't even achieve warp.
Man, there's a bullshit story I never get tired of hearing. No, wait, I did get tired of it long ago.

Ah yes, another Trekkie that insists that Scotty MUST be wrong when he said the ship's power was "simple impulse".

Funny that the same class of ship pursued the Enterprise at warp speeds in "The Deadly Years". Funny that the moving blip we see of the Enterprise which is moving at maximum warp shows that the trip just to get to the Earth Outposts would have taken several lifetimes in a sublight vessel (http://www.trek5.com/caps/tos/09_BOT/pa ... OT_030.htm). Funny that a society which supposedly doesn't have warp drive has no trouble using weapons that go FTL. And finally, it's funny that the ship's apparent engines would have little clear pieces in the front (http://www.trek5.com/caps/tos/09_BOT/pa ... OT_090.htm) that put out a blue glow from a spot analogous to the ramscoops of the Enterprise (http://www.trek5.com/caps/tos/09_BOT/pa ... OT_157.htm).

Not only that, but I don't believe we've ever seen an energy weapon home in on a target.
V'ger fired some,

V'ger's weapons never adjusted course after being fired. Didn't need to since not one of its targets even tried to evade.

The Enterprise pitched and yawed, and Spock specifically mentioned a guidance system (even if he didn't know what it was).

and the Defiant's phaser pulses were once seen to turn along with the ship.

Can you be any more vague?

Sure:
http://www.h4h.com/louis/trekmiss.html

While you revel in your Benny Hill music, notice that at about 1:42 in the clip, we see a shot out of the Defiant's viewscreen. The Defiant fires her phaser cannons while engaging in a hard port turn. Notice that the phaser pulses stay in front of the ship, even while she's turning. Notice also that one of the shots which would have missed had it continued along its original course hits the Dominion ship due to whatever kept it directly in front of the Defiant.

FX screwup? Yeah, probably, but that is an invalid argument in most ST vs SW circles, and may even be invalidated by the fact that the shots were actually shown to hit after doing that.

It's about damn time you admit that they pivoted.

Wrong once again. I've never disputed it.
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=warp+ ... com&rnum=2
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=warp+ ... com&rnum=3

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=g:thl ... %40h4h.com

What, a pivot isn't a maneuver to you?

No, it wouldn't. We see the stars moving toward the ship, then Kirk learns the Romulans are decloaking. Kirk guesses their move, orders "full astern, emergency warp speed" (your second video begins there), and we see the Romulan ship fire. When the Romulans fire, the stars are already moving in reverse, and there are no further turning orders.

This doesn't mean they were already turned around. We've seen the speed of a "warp pivot", and its far from immediate.

Concession accepted. The Enterprise did not pivot, because she was not ordered to do so... she was ordered into reverse, and there was not even time for a warp pivot.

Those reversing stars are heading toward a point below the plasma weapon. By the next viewscreen shot, they are headed toward a point behind the plasma weapon.

Yup, when the Enterprise has already completed its turn.

Concession accepted. Your turning, maneuvering Enterprise requires (even moreso than before) a turning, maneuvering plasma weapon.

But, yes, it does appear to be about ten percent smaller... and in the center, instead of the upper left of the screen where it started out. Oh, right, I forgot that makes your theory look stupid. Sorry.

You're projecting again, since it fully supports my theory-- new camera angle.

New camera angle? The Enterprise would need a huge boom off to the side to be able to mount a camera like you are describing, and even then it wouldn't do all the magic tricks you would require of it.

The idea that you're missing isn't that the plasma weapon slowed... the Enterprise was speeding up.

No shit. Really? Your theory is the one that allows us idiotic assumptions like the plasma ball can course correct (for no reason)

Except for the fact that it was fired at a position which no longer contained the Enterprise.

and therefore slow down (for no reason).

You're the one claiming it must have slowed down, ignoring the fact that the Enterprise was speeding up. If the plasma weapon was smaller (and therefore further away), yet continued to overtake the ship when the Enterprise had reached full power, this implies that the weapon also accelerated.

My theory fits all the facts, without making up a theory so idiotic that even a spacebattles.com resident would laugh at it.

Ha! You just called simple geometry idiotic. Dumbass.

The most you can claim out of the smaller plasma weapon was that the magnification on the screen changed.

Incorrect. Anytime there is a screen magnification change, Kirk orders it. He didn't.

Fine, then. The plasma weapon accelerated. Also, since Kirk has ordered reverse angle on the viewscreen (which, by your logic, would mean that anytime there is an angle change, Kirk orders it), I accept your concession in regards to your stupid camera change argument.

But, changing magnification, or even entire cameras, isn't going to change the direction of the ship's travel, or the direction of travel of the plasma weapon.

It will if the object is being shot from a different perspective.

The Enterprise is only ~130 meters wide. For such a drastic perspective change, the plasma weapon would have had to have been fired at point blank range. Since you're probably going to argue with the acceleration argument, I'll go ahead and point out that if it didn't accelerate, the weapon must have been fired at warp. Point blank range... warp speed weapon... you do the math.

There is no evidence that the ship changed direction of travel (well, except for reversing), so the plasma ball must have.

Yes, that the most logical explanation.

Your first truthful, valid statement... and it is sarcasm. So sad.

Are you still going to argue your stupid point, or face the facts?

Ok, I admit it. The fact is, you ARE an idiot.

You're the one who doesn't understand simple geometry, and I am an idiot? Puh-leeze.

[Master of Ossus]

*Question Dark Mullet because I agree with Darkstar that picture is distirbed
How is being bald a bad thing agian?
Besides a lack of heat retition in the Winter which can be solved by any numbers of meansures(Hats, Cats, Hoods,Hairpieces) there are no real disadvantages
In the summer you would stay cooler do to lack of heat retition
Prehaps you could even glue a heatsink where your hair would have been to increase heat-disperson.
Lack of mating does not seem to be a problem because Bald men producde more teststeron so then what are the disadvatanges of being Bald
And if you can't think of anything don't you need a better insult than Baldstar?
Its almost a complement

I think that DumbShit is a good insulting term for DarkStar, though I also like Rogaine jockey for its inventiveness.

[Lord Poe]

[quote="DarkStar
Actually, my hair is approaching the length of yours,[/quote]
There's nothing sadder than someone with no hair on top but long hair in a ponytail in the back. I feel for you.

It was fired from above the plane of the ship.

It was fired from direct center.

Oh, please... we can all see it, you lying whore.[/quote]
Yeah, we can see it was fired from the direct center. Twat.

Not only do you assume incorrectly that it was "pointing down", but that the weapon is "fixed" and can't fire off-center. Rather, you stick to the more ludicrous assumption that the plasma ball adjusted its course for no reason against a target that wasn't maneuvering.
Your hair-care products have gone to your brain.

Again with the hair obsession. Must be hell on Earth to walk around looking like Terry Bradshaw.
[Q]The Romulan ship was above the plane of the Enterprise.[/quote]
And fired "down" toward it. Concession Accepted.

Ah yes, another Trekkie that insists that Scotty MUST be wrong when he said the ship's power was "simple impulse".

Funny that the same class of ship pursued the Enterprise at warp speeds in "The Deadly Years".[/quote]
Wasn't the same class of ship, asswipe. The one in "Balance Of Terror" was a prototype with an uber-plasma weapon, which we haven't seen since.

Funny that the moving blip we see of the Enterprise which is moving at maximum warp shows that the trip just to get to the Earth Outposts would have taken several lifetimes in a sublight vessel [/q]
So you have canon proof that it DIDN'T take them a long time to get there? Hey, *I* didn't write this shit...

Funny that a society which supposedly doesn't have warp drive

Strawman. I never claimed that.

V'ger's weapons never adjusted course after being fired. Didn't need to since not one of its targets even tried to evade.

The Enterprise pitched and yawed, and Spock specifically mentioned a guidance system (even if he didn't know what it was).

Again, for those like DarkBradshaw that can't read:

V'ger's weapons never adjusted course after being fired.

While you revel in your Benny Hill music, notice that at about 1:42 in the clip, we see a shot out of the Defiant's viewscreen. The Defiant fires her phaser cannons while engaging in a hard port turn. Notice that the phaser pulses stay in front of the ship, even while she's turning. Notice also that one of the shots which would have missed had it continued along its original course hits the Dominion ship due to whatever kept it directly in front of the Defiant. FX screwup?

Nope. You're just wrong, once again. The pulse clearly hit the ship, there was no "turn"

What, a pivot isn't a maneuver to you?

Didn't claim it wasn't.

Concession accepted. The Enterprise did not pivot, because she was not ordered to do so...

Kirk ordered "full astern", pretty much like he did in Elaan of Troyus. Unless you want to say the Enterprise was flying sideways relative to the plasma ball..

she was ordered into reverse,

Concession Accepted. Kirk NEVER ordered the ship "into reverse".

and there was not even time for a warp pivot.

ROTF!! "there was not even time for a warp pivot"

Concession accepted. Your turning, maneuvering Enterprise requires (even moreso than before) a turning, maneuvering plasma weapon.

Incorrect. A warp pivot would involve all the maneuvering you're tal;king about.

New camera angle? The Enterprise would need a huge boom off to the side to be able to mount a camera like you are describing,

Bullshit. The simple reverse angle on the viewer would show exactly what we saw.

[snip more useless bullshit repetition from DarkBradshaw already covered.]

[DarkStar]

It was fired from direct center.

That is simply a lie. You can see with your own eyes that the Romulan ship and the plasma weapon are on the top half of the viewscreen, above the plane of the ship's travel. You can delete the entire bottom half of the viewscreen and end up still being able to see the ship and weapon.

The Romulan ship was above the plane of the Enterprise.

And fired "down" toward it. Concession Accepted.

Concession accepted? You just agreed with me! Fool!

Funny that the same class of ship pursued the Enterprise at warp speeds in "The Deadly Years".

Wasn't the same class of ship, asswipe. The one in "Balance Of Terror" was a prototype with an uber-plasma weapon, which we haven't seen since.

The ships were visually identical, and fired a visually identical (if apparently less-powerful) weapon.

Funny that the moving blip we see of the Enterprise which is moving at maximum warp shows that the trip just to get to the Earth Outposts would have taken several lifetimes in a sublight vessel [/q]
So you have canon proof that it DIDN'T take them a long time to get there? Hey, *I* didn't write this shit...

Spock: "Still no answer from Outpost Two, Captain, and now number Three has gone silent."
Kirk: "Maintain course for Outpost Four..."

Within about two minutes of this conversation, Outpost Four comes under attack.

Look here: http://www.trek5.com/caps/tos/09_BOT/pa ... OT_030.htm

It was to take the Enterprise about seven minutes to traverse the distance to Outpost Four at maximum warp speed, from the Enterprise position seen in the screenshot. From the front of the E's blip to the bottom left corner of Outpost Four's icon is 201 pixels. From the lower right corner of Outpost Four's icon to the Romulan side of the Neutral Zone is 40.5 pixels, and 14 pixels to the Federation side of the zone. From the uppermost point of the Outpost Three icon to the lower left corner of the Outpost Four icon is 14 pixels. These are conservative figures, but will do to prove the point:

The Enterprise travelling at maximum warp (presumably 8, though we've seen them at 9 for short periods in "Enterprise Incident") would have been moving at ~28 pixels per minute. The exact time between Spock reporting that Outpost Three had gone silent and his report that Outpost Four had reported being under attack was 1 minute, 12 seconds. So, a minimum of 1.2 minutes elapsed, during which time the Romulan ship would have traveled a minimum distance of 14 pixels, for a speed of 11.67 pixels per minute, or 41% of the Enterprise's maximum warp speed.

After the destruction of Outpost Four, the Romulan ship, low on fuel (as stated repeatedly by the Romulan crew and commander), then tried to make its way home. It turned to 111 mark 14, and 7.5 minutes later in the episode the Enterprise was "less than an hour" from entering the Neutral Zone. Assuming one hour exactly for the Romulan ship to go from Outpost Four to the Neutral Zone, this works out to .23 pixels per minute, or .008 of the maximum warp speed of the Enterprise.

Now, all we need is the maximum warp speed of the Enterprise. I am choosing to disregard Spock's figure of 11 hours to travel 990.7 light years in "That Which Survives"[TOS], suggesting 90 ly/hr, or 788,400 times lightspeed, and I'll also discount "Bread and Circuses"[TOS], which has the Enterprise cross .2 light years in about a minute, suggesting a speed of 107,000c.

The Kelvan-enhanced Enterprise was travelling at warp 11 to the Andromeda galaxy in "By Any Other Name", and would take 300 years to reach it. The Andromeda galaxy is at least 2,500,000 light years away, giving Warp 11 a rough speed of 8333c. (By the way, the Enterprise-D would have taken 300 years to travel 2.7 million light years in 'WNOHGB'.) If warp eight is even 25% of that figure, it still works out to over 2000c. So, if the Romulan ship was moving at .008 of the Enterprise maximum, it would still be travelling at a speed of 16c to the Neutral Zone, after having made its trip to attack Outpost Four at a speed of at least 850c.

Funny that a society which supposedly doesn't have warp drive

Strawman. I never claimed that.

Ah, yes, so you didn't. That is the usual stupid claim made alongside the argument that the Bird of Prey had no warp drive, though, and knowing your fondness for making stupid claims, I'm sure it will be one of yours soon.

The Enterprise pitched and yawed, and Spock specifically mentioned a guidance system (even if he didn't know what it was).

Again, for those like DarkBradshaw that can't read:

V'ger's weapons never adjusted course after being fired.

Hmm... pitching and yawing during powered flight does not affect a ship's trajectory? How odd.

While you revel in your Benny Hill music, notice that at about 1:42 in the clip, we see a shot out of the Defiant's viewscreen. The Defiant fires her phaser cannons while engaging in a hard port turn. Notice that the phaser pulses stay in front of the ship, even while she's turning. Notice also that one of the shots which would have missed had it continued along its original course hits the Dominion ship due to whatever kept it directly in front of the Defiant. FX screwup?

Nope. You're just wrong, once again. The pulse clearly hit the ship, there was no "turn"

Poe, stop lying. The fourth pulse is fired below and to the right of the JH ship, yet manages to hit it dead on. Further, where is the spray of phaser pulses that should still be traveling along the Defiant's old directions? Oh, right, yes, that's funny, they are still in front of the ship, even though the ship changed direction.

What, a pivot isn't a maneuver to you?

Didn't claim it wasn't.

So they can turn and pivot and even go into reverse, but not maneuver? WTF?

Concession accepted. The Enterprise did not pivot, because she was not ordered to do so...

Kirk ordered "full astern", pretty much like he did in Elaan of Troyus. Unless you want to say the Enterprise was flying sideways relative to the plasma ball..

You're lying again. Kirk never ordered full astern in Elaan of Troyius, and certainly not in relation to the warp pivot maneuver.

You're the one claiming that at some point the Enterprise's side was to the plasma ball.

she was ordered into reverse,

Concession Accepted. Kirk NEVER ordered the ship "into reverse".

Full astern at emergency warp speed isn't reverse?

and there was not even time for a warp pivot.

ROTF!! "there was not even time for a warp pivot"

Hey, you're the one that said they were far from instantaneous. Don't laugh at your own ideas, it makes you look even dumber.

Concession accepted. Your turning, maneuvering Enterprise requires (even moreso than before) a turning, maneuvering plasma weapon.

Incorrect. A warp pivot would involve all the maneuvering you're tal;king about.

Ah, of course! This is why you have to argue the blatantly stupid idea that the Romulan ship was directly in front of the Enterprise when it fired! Your foolish belief requires a warp pivot, a simple 180 degree turn, but that would still put the Enterprise out of the way of the plasma weapon, so you must argue that the weapon was in just the right spot.

Of course, it wasn't, but I see now where your lies come from.

New camera angle? The Enterprise would need a huge boom off to the side to be able to mount a camera like you are describing,

Bullshit. The simple reverse angle on the viewer would show exactly what we saw.

The Enterprise is ~130 meters wide. For such a drastic angle change, the Romulan ship would have had to have fired its warp-speed weapon from point-blank range. Your stupid argument now requires that the plasma weapon be able to accelerate to warp, but still not be able to track a target.

[Lord Poe]

[quote="DarkStar"][/quote]
More bullshit without proof. A pulsating weapon is not a maneuvering one. Concession Accepted.

[DarkStar]

More bullshit without proof. A pulsating weapon is not a maneuvering one. Concession Accepted.

And, again, as with the other anti-me thread you started, it seems you're no longer willing to discuss the issue.

Again, neither one of us is going to make the other budge, obviously, since I'm not willing to ignore the canon facts of the episode, and you're not willing to accept them. I could say "Concession accepted" as a result, but I think the best thing would be to simply agree that we disagree.

[Lord Poe]

[quote="DarkStar"][/quote]
More bullshit without proof. A pulsating weapon is not a maneuvering one. Concession Accepted.

[DarkStar]

Well, you're beyond my help. Though you were never willing to be shown the light, at least you made it look like you were willing to discuss the issue before... now you are just trying to get the last word. Sorry, but you have withdrawn from the discussion. This thread and the canon speak for themselves. Concession accepted.

[His Divine Shadow]

And, again, as with the other anti-me thread you started, it seems you're no longer willing to discuss the issue.

Again, neither one of us is going to make the other budge, obviously, since I'm not willing to ignore the canon facts of the episode, and you're not willing to accept them. I could say "Concession accepted" as a result, but I think the best thing would be to simply agree that we disagree.

No... what will happen is that you will refuse canon facts as usual and just claim they support you and claim victory when infact the forum is laughing it's ass off at your stupidity and stubborness.

[DarkStar]

No... what will happen is that you will refuse canon facts as usual and just claim they support you and claim victory when infact the forum is laughing it's ass off at your stupidity and stubborness.

Laugh all you like... until you can actually change Trek canon to suit your views (and that'll be the day), I get the last laugh.