Butt-Ugly New Submachinegun!

Post by **Coyote** » 2005-10-14 10:09am

Check out this link to a new style of submachinegun being made for (hopeful) military use. The KRISS .45 SMG article has a video clip at the end showing how it would be fired. It looks awkward as hell, and they're talking about adding 30-round drums to it... the sight is awkward, I think....

I've said for a long time the US Army needs to adopt a good, robust sub-machinegun for vehicle crews but... I dunno about this.

Caveat: The reporter makes a jab at the makers for developing a SMG in Washington, DC, which has strict gun-control laws, potentially turning this a diatribe thread. Please don't succumb to the temptation.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2005-10-14 10:13am

Yeep. That's one ugly gun.

Soontir C'boath · Post by **Soontir C'boath** » 2005-10-14 10:17am

It looks like someone made this during his spare time in shop.

That NOS Guy · Post by **That NOS Guy** » 2005-10-14 10:25am

Soontir C'boath wrote:It looks like someone made this during his spare time in shop.

Wasn't that how the AK-47 was made?

Crossroads Inc. · Post by **Crossroads Inc.** » 2005-10-14 10:58am

What The HELL Is that thing??? It looks like some chezzy Blaster from a bad Sci-Fi movie!!!

drachefly · Post by **drachefly** » 2005-10-14 11:46am

They were thinking, make the grip lie on the barrel axis. That way, firing the gun requires less compensating torque.

The disadvantage I can think of is that you can't run the barrel through where your hands are, so the barrel needs to start entirely in front of the grip. Which means that it's going to be front-heavy.

There may be other disadvantages (I'm so far from gun expert it's not funny)

Post by **fgalkin** » 2005-10-14 12:18pm

...the fuck?

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-10-14 12:28pm

Well, from the video it seems to fire well...

nickolay1 · Post by **nickolay1** » 2005-10-14 12:53pm

This seems like a rather nice choice for vehicle crews. It appears to have the ability to be fired accurately with much less effort.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2005-10-14 01:00pm

That is horrifically ugly, but it seems like it would fit well into support roles in the military, especially if the Army is serious about returning to the .45 caliber round.

Post by **Edi** » 2005-10-14 02:51pm

The firing ergonomics might work. The carrying it around ergonomics don't. That fucker takes up an ungodly amount of space and would get in the way every time you tried to do something other than point it at something.

Edi

Sharpshooter · Post by **Sharpshooter** » 2005-10-14 04:26pm

Crossroads Inc. wrote:What The HELL Is that thing??? It looks like some chezzy Blaster from a bad Sci-Fi movie!!!

If I remember my 8-bit right, it is a cheezy blaster. The old Star Wars game for the NES had a blaster that looked just like this, and was nasty-lookin' like nothing else.

For a moment, I couldn't figure out just how the hell you were supposed to hold the thing. Almost sort of reminds me of the rifle the Japanese Assault guys in Battlefield 1942 were using, what with that big-ass vertical protrusion above the barrel.

YT300000 · Post by **YT300000** » 2005-10-14 09:06pm

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Well, from the video it seems to fire well...

The cyclic rate is a bit on the large side, though. I'm guessing thats a 20 round magazine, which means its ~1200 RPM. The Heckler & Koch UMP would be a far better choice.

Post by **Vympel** » 2005-10-14 09:21pm

Just reissue the M3A1 Grease Guns.

wilfulton · Post by **wilfulton** » 2005-10-14 09:35pm

If vehicle crewmen have to use weapons, most likely they'll be firing weapons mounted on the vehicle. If they are dismounted, then they would have no difficulty carrying rifles. If they're riding out the hatch of an armored vehicle (or even an unarmored HMMWV, like what mine was) and they can't use a vehicle mounted weapon for some crazy reason, then they can still still pivot around with a rifle, without difficulty. Either way, the SMG is somewhat of a mute point. It's a better weapon for SWAT teams, at which point the MP-5 and its ilk are kinda hard to beat.

The other hang up I have about this gun, is that when you fire it for awhile, the barrel will start to heat up. I don't know many rounds it would take to make it uncomfortably hot through the plastic grip, but I don't see this weapon as being intended for any continued use, as there doesn't seem to be much room for air to circulate. I doubt the foregrip would last long either, were that the case.

The other thing...seems like firer's hand has to be awfully close to the muzzle blast. The risk of the firer somehow letting go of the weapon and accidently grabbing the flame shooting out of the muzzle might in all actuality be rather insignificant, but that thought still jumps out at me.

Ninja of the North · Post by **Ninja of the North** » 2005-10-14 09:50pm

I don't know anything about guns, but I do know that having your fingers just a couple inches from the muzzel is NOT a good idea.

Danny Bhoy · Post by **Danny Bhoy** » 2005-10-14 11:56pm

YT300000 wrote:
Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Well, from the video it seems to fire well...
The cyclic rate is a bit on the large side, though. I'm guessing thats a 20 round magazine, which means its ~1200 RPM. The Heckler & Koch UMP would be a far better choice.

Wasn't the Ingram also a .45 with 1200rpm?

But the gun in the OP sure looks fucked up. I'm not sure it's any better to shoot. Then again, the closest weapon I ever shot to an SMG was the CAR-15 (the old ones not the current M-4s) which I rather liked.

Setesh · Post by **Setesh** » 2005-10-15 12:43am

I see some problems with it though. The casings eject straight up infront of the sight. And the forward hand grips are placed so the spent shells are faling all over the supporting hand and arm, if you look close you can see they're bouncing all over the guy. If the channeled the shells one way or the other it might work.

Post by **Beowulf** » 2005-10-15 03:30am

Casings ejecting upwards isn't really a problem, since they're going fast enough to not be very visible. Having the forward grip only a couple inches from the muzzle isn't any problem either, so long as you have something to keep it from going in front of the muzzle.

Death from the Sea · Post by **Death from the Sea** » 2005-10-15 04:48am

the ejecting the casing straight up is asking for a malfunction. also watching the slo-mo video shows the charging handle moving up and down and extending several inches out of the bottom. That too could cause a weapon malfunction easily.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2005-10-15 07:07am

What the hell is an rtsp:// link?

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2005-10-15 10:20am

Rogue 9 wrote:What the hell is an rtsp:// link?

Real Time Streaming Protocol, usually used for streaming media.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2005-10-15 12:39pm

Crossroads Inc. wrote:What The HELL Is that thing??? It looks like some chezzy Blaster from a bad Sci-Fi movie!!!

well the syer AUG looks like it belongs in a cheesy sci fi movie, this just looks like it escaped from an anime.

YT300000 · Post by **YT300000** » 2005-10-15 02:04pm

Danny Bhoy wrote:
YT300000 wrote:
Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Well, from the video it seems to fire well...
The cyclic rate is a bit on the large side, though. I'm guessing thats a 20 round magazine, which means its ~1200 RPM. The Heckler & Koch UMP would be a far better choice.
Wasn't the Ingram also a .45 with 1200rpm?

The MAC-10/11 series? Yes it was, but its not the most accurate of weapons. And thats putting it nicely.

The reason I brought up the UMP is because its basically an MP-5 with some nice bonus features (bolt catch, lighter polymer frame, .45 ACP) that has a ROF of 450-550 RPM or so, which makes it very controllable.

Vympel wrote:Just reissue the M3A1 Grease Guns.

Also a possibility, since they're fairly reliable, only go at 400 RPM and cost what... $40 to stamp out? The problem is, they're loud as all hell, whereas the UMP isn't.

EDIT: Well, relatively obviously, but its not quite the eardrum-popper the M-3 is.

Sidewinder · Post by **Sidewinder** » 2005-10-16 02:12am

According to the "Army Times" article I read, the KRISS is designed to almost completely eliminate recoil, allowing both high accuracy and a very high cyclic rate of fire. What you see is only a prototype, and they'll make more and different looking prototypes before they find one worthy of mass production.