More on Terri Schiavo--UPDATE: Schiavo dead 31 Mar 05

[The Dark]

The fundie trend towards anti-intellectualism dates back to the mid 1800s, when the German theologians began using the historical critical method to analyzing the Bible. Post-Civil War Southerners had retreated to religion as a consolation after losing the war, and this "attack" on religion (which was nothing of the sort) led to a backlash against the intellectuals that had developed the method. It's lasted for nearly 150 years, and explains some of Southern culture that I had seen but not understood the reasoning behind (the distrust of higher education, Biblical literalism, et cetera).

[Spacebeard]

The fundie trend towards anti-intellectualism dates back to the mid 1800s, when the German theologians began using the historical critical method to analyzing the Bible. Post-Civil War Southerners had retreated to religion as a consolation after losing the war, and this "attack" on religion (which was nothing of the sort) led to a backlash against the intellectuals that had developed the method. It's lasted for nearly 150 years, and explains some of Southern culture that I had seen but not understood the reasoning behind (the distrust of higher education, Biblical literalism, et cetera).

One could also argue that it dates back to certain events in the Middle Ages or Renaissance, such as the Bonfire of the Vanities in Florence, where fundamentalists under the leadership of Giralamo Savonarola seized the city and burned books and works of art in a frenzied reaction against their "immoral materialistic influence".

But it's probably the Civil War, like you said, that holds the most sway in America. I see almost as many Confederate flags here in the north as I do in rural Georgia; I think the Southern narrative of "Yankees trying to destroy the Southern lifestyle" has become "liberals trying to destroy the rural American lifestyle", and has been picked up by many reactionaries with no connection to the South.

[Alyrium Denryle]

Hell it dates back farther than that. In the early days of the catholic church, the archbishop of Alexandria Cyril, now Saint Cyril, whipped up a frenzy in local christians and they ripped the Scholar hypatia from her chariot and flayed her alive with abolone shells, they then proceeded to burn the library top the ground

[Xon]

It seems to me as though fundamentalism has always had a streak of anti-intellectualism:

Religious fundamentalism has to contain anti-intellectualism in its agenda.

Intellectualism promots knowladge and learning, which is completely against the near total information control religious fundamentalism requires to operate.

[Darth Servo]

It seems to me as though fundamentalism has always had a streak of anti-intellectualism:

Religious fundamentalism has to contain anti-intellectualism in its agenda.

Intellectualism promots knowladge and learning, which is completely against the near total information control religious fundamentalism requires to operate.

Faith and logic/science/rationality are complete polar opposites. Science, learning, etc requires evidence while faith is accepting that for which there is no evidence as even the Bible admits.

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

[Kizarvexis]

Well, Gov Bush doesn't want to 'err on the side of life' in this case. Granted, he's a convicted murder, but he seems to have some mental issues.

Confessed killer is set to die today
By CARRIE JOHNSON, Times Staff Writer
Published April 5, 2005

TALLAHASSEE - When they arrested him, Glenn Ocha told investigators he calmly sipped a beer and cleaned his kitchen after hanging a 28-year-old woman from her neck in his home outside Kissimmee.

Since that October 1999 night, Ocha has made no secret of his desire to die. After pleading guilty to first-degree murder without a trial, he asked an Osceola County circuit judge to sentence him to death. Later, he fired an attorney who tried to appeal the ruling.

Tonight, Ocha, 47, may finally get his wish. He is scheduled to die by lethal injection at 6 p.m. at the Florida State Prison in Raiford, the state's 60th execution since the U.S. Supreme Court reinstated the death penalty in 1976.

No appeals are pending, and a lawyer appointed to represent Ocha said that as of Monday afternoon, the execution was scheduled to proceed as planned.

Abe Bonowitz, director of Floridians for Alternatives for the Death Penalty, said serious questions remain about Ocha's mental health. He legally changed his name to Raven Raven and has a tattoo on his left shoulder of a black bird and a heart that reads "Nevermore."

Ocha also has a well-documented history of suicide attempts. In 1978, he begged an Orange County deputy who arrested him for fighting to shoot him. He also tried to hang himself with his jacket in a holding cell.

"This is yet another state-assisted suicide, or suicide by governor," Bonowitz said. "This isn't punishment. It's reward if it's what the prisoner is asking for."

Bonowitz, who is organizing protest demonstrations around the state, on Monday called on Gov. Jeb Bush to halt the execution. This will be the 16th execution in Florida since Bush became governor.

Bonowitz called Bush's stance on the death penalty hypocritical in light of his objection to the death of Terri Schiavo.

"In this state, you cannot get an assisted suicide," Bonowitz said. "Unless you commit murder and then the state will bend over backward to help you die."

According to court records, Ocha pleaded guilty to killing Carol Skjerva, who gave him a ride to his home in Buenaventura Lakes from a nearby bar the night of Oct. 5, 1999.

Ocha said he had sex with with Skjerva. But he became enraged after she made a disparaging remark about his anatomy, and attempted to strangle her.

When his arms grew tired, Ocha hanged Skjerva from a door, then stuffed her into an entertainment center in his garage, according to court records.

Mark Gruber, an appeals attorney who was dismissed by Ocha, said the inmate strenuously objected to any attempts to overturn his sentence. "He was very adamant from the beginning he did not want anything done for him," Gruber said.

Ocha's refusal to fight for his life isn't unique among death row inmates. John Blackwelder, a Fort Pierce man who was put to death last May, also fired his lawyers and waived all of his appeals.

Gruber said the practice has been deemed permissible by the courts provided the inmate has been found competent to proceed on his own. Ocha has twice been judged competent.

Ocha's criminal history is long and violent. He was convicted of robbery and attempted murder in 1984 for shooting a Kentucky hotel manager during an argument over room charges. Sentenced to 20 years in prison, Ocha was released in 1998.

He had been out of prison for less than a year when he met Skjerva.

--Carrie Johnson can be reached at 850 224-7263 or [email protected]

[url=http://www.sptimes.com/2005/04/05/State ... is_s.shtml]link/[url]

I'm all for putting down mad dogs, but since the Bush brothers want a 'culture of life' well, I thought they would stick to it a little better. I guess Raven Raven is not a fundamentalist issue.

Kizarvexis

[Ekiqa]

I think my dad put it best in an email reply to some comments I made about Schiavo's brain, and the hypocrosy of Bush and co.

I think you've misinterpreted the significance of the CT scan. It's not the
fact that 90% of the volume is missing that's important, it's what bits are
missing. It's not the responsiveness that's important, it's the nature of
it. If you compare that scan to one of George Bush you'll see that there is
no difference, they're both missing 90%. The significant difference is the
remaining functionality and type of response shown to stimuli. Bush lies,
cheats, bullies and kills people. Schiavo, in contrast, doesn't lie,
doesn't cheat or bully or hurt anyone. Clearly Schiavo is incapable of
making any kind of constructive contribution to society and therefore must be
brain-dead.

Dad

[The Dark]

Given the responses to my post, let me rephrase: the Civil War is the root of modern American religious fundamentalism. I believe the Cyril-Hypatia incident was due to the "non-Christian" books contained in the library (and that Cyril was a loon).

Servo: I would mostly agree, though there are quite a few theologians who accept all of science's conclusions about the physical world while still refusing the metaphysics of secular materialism. It's a matter of defining where each is capable of going, and I frankly am still learning about that myself.

[Darth Servo]

Servo: I would mostly agree, though there are quite a few theologians who accept all of science's conclusions about the physical world while still refusing the metaphysics of secular materialism. It's a matter of defining where each is capable of going, and I frankly am still learning about that myself.

And there are scientists with religious up-bringing who accept that the Earth is billions of years old but can't swallow evolution.

That doesn't change the fact that faith and rationality are polar opposites and don't mix. The "religious scientist" simply abandons the ideas that he/she knows are scientifically nonsense but clings to the ones they aren't educated enough to see whats wrong with them.

[DPDarkPrimus]

The "religious scientist" simply abandons the ideas that he/she knows are scientifically nonsense but clings to the ones they aren't educated enough to see whats wrong with them.

Or are too deeply ingrained to let go of, leading to double-think.

[Atlan]

So... Anything on the autopsy yet? The Pope is kinda overshadowing everythign right now.

[Kizarvexis]

The physical autopsy is complete and Terri's body was turned over to Michael Shiavo. She has been cremated as he planned to do, but I don't believe he has had her service yet. The coroner has said that he will not release any results until all the tests have come back in, which should take a few weeks.

Here is a link to a St Pete Times story about the memorial service held by the Schindler family.

Personally, I think that the people who want to make hay off of this, will make up conspiracy theories about all kinds of BS that should have been found in the autopsy or that was found but now can't be followed up because she was cremated. The spinning will continue on. I'm also betting that her grave site becomes some kind of 'shrine' once the location is known.

Kizarvexis

[Wicked Pilot]

Nope, no abuse. Shocking isn't it?

Fla. Finds No Abuse of Schiavo by Family

Apr 16, 8:54 AM (ET)

By VICKIE CHACHERE

TAMPA, Fla. (AP) - State investigators found no evidence that Terri Schiavo had been abused or exploited by either side of her family, according to documents released by Florida's Department of Children and Families.

The agency investigated 89 complaints dating back to 2001, when Schiavo's feeding tube was removed for the first time and the legal battle surrounding her right-to-die case intensified.

The calls alleged that the brain-damaged woman was being mistreated by her husband and her parents for financial gain. One complaint alleged that Schiavo's parents were selling videos of her through a Web site; another said Schiavo's husband wasn't spending money intended for her rehabilitation.

But investigators said they found no evidence that either her husband or parents were exploiting her, and often noted in their records that they found Schiavo well cared for on their visits to her Pinellas Park hospice.

The agency released the records Friday under court order.

Schiavo, 41, died last month after her feeding tube was removed for the third time, ending a bitter court battle between her husband, Michael Schiavo, and parents, Robert and Mary Schindler, over whether she would have wanted to live in a vegetative state.

The repeated allegations of abuse were based partly on bone scans showing Terri Schiavo suffered fractures and statements she made to family and friends that she was unhappy in her marriage.

Schiavo's husband has denied harming his wife. His lawyer said the fractures resulted from osteoporosis caused by the woman's years of immobility and complications of her medication.

Robert Schindler declined to comment there on the release of the DCF documents. An attorney for Michael Schiavo did not immediately return calls.

[Jalinth]

Nope, no abuse. Shocking isn't it?

Guess they really didn't need that restraining order after all. Who woulda thunk. Can the legal bills to defend against this be billed to them since it was a political maneuver, nothing more?

[DPDarkPrimus]

Suck on that, you heartless fuckers who called Micheal Schiavo a wife-beater!

[wolveraptor]

Urgh. I'm glad this fiasco is over. I guess it took John Paul "the Great's" death to stop people from harping on about Michael Schiavo's wife-beating, homicide etc.

[Patrick Degan]

A political cartoonist (can't recall which one now) came up with an ideal motto for Florida: the Permanently Vegetative State.