Can a lightsaber cut through adamantium?

generator_g1 · Post by **generator_g1** » 2005-03-22 12:16am

Some folks I know were having this discussion on a local message board, some people were saying that a lightsaber can't cut adamantium since it is virtually indestructable. Are there any evidence to back/disprove their claim...

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2005-03-22 12:18am

Adamantium cannot be invincible because it can be shaped. Therefore, assuming it's heat tolerance is infinity is being a fucking dumbass.

Post by **Gandalf** » 2005-03-22 12:21am

Last time this was discussed

Might have some arguments for usage.

generator_g1 · Post by **generator_g1** » 2005-03-22 12:26am

Damn double post, can someone please delete the second post. Thanks...

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2005-03-22 12:39am

Adamantium has a liquid form, and therefore has a melting point, no matter what idiotic explanation the X-Men writers have offered for it being "invincible once hardened." Lightsabers have been shown to flash-melt large quantities of reinforced steel.

Assassin X · Post by **Assassin X** » 2005-03-22 12:41am

"Try and stop me jedi boy hahaha", says wolverine

:BZZZZZZ......SLICE...."AHHHHHHHHHH"....THUMP:

Hehehehe. I can just picture Wolverine thinking he can take on a jedi.

Styphon · Post by **Styphon** » 2005-03-22 12:49am

ugh... you people realize you're arguing against a no limits fallacy with ANOTHER NO LIMITS FALLACY?

"oh, it's stupid that adamantium is completely invincible... Lightsabers cut through anything, roxxors!!"

to rephrase in less insulting terms... just because adamantium can be melted doesn't mean a lightsaber can do it...

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2005-03-22 12:59am

Styphon wrote:ugh... you people realize you're arguing against a no limits fallacy with ANOTHER NO LIMITS FALLACY?

"oh, it's stupid that adamantium is completely invincible... Lightsabers cut through anything, roxxors!!"

I'm sorry, do you find some sort of virtue in making strawmen, knocking them over, and declaring the victims of your fallacy to be Bad People?

Solauren · Post by **Solauren** » 2005-03-22 01:00am

It should be noted that if Adamantium was really the end all be all metal, the Sha'ir Empire would use it and be unstoppable.

They don't.

That being said, Adamantium is indestructable by all tested modern Earth science and no known mutant powers can damage it (change it into another material, sure). or alien abilities appear to have worked on it.

A lightsaber however, can melt through blast doors designed to stop energy weapons, and eventually cut through armor designed to stop Star Wars weapon fire.

Case in point, Luke was going to cut his way into the wreck of the Jedi Training ship he found on Daithimor. You know that was the target of pirates on occasion.

So, I'd have to say, a Lightsaber could probably cut Adamantium, but the time frame to accomplish this is unknown

Styphon · Post by **Styphon** » 2005-03-22 01:08am

a recent thread referencing numerous examples of how lightsabers aren't so uber... sticky lightsabers

when you can find me quantitative proof that floors and hand rails in Star Wars are tougher than adamantium, then we'll talk...

oh, and Dathomir equals EU equals not canon... Wink

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2005-03-22 01:18am

Oh look. A fanboy making a scattergun whining. I've only seen that a few dozen times...

So, since you want to make some affirmations, Styphon, let's start seeing some calculations, some quantifications.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2005-03-22 01:19am

Styphon wrote:oh, and Dathomir equals EU equals not canon...

Sorry, dipshit. EU is still part of SW continuity. You're treading the line up to trolling; contribute or piss off.

ali-sama · Post by **ali-sama** » 2005-03-22 01:19am

admantium is a class 1000 metal. marvel levles go up expponentioally. shift x is enough to blow up a moon. then you got shift y and shift z.
a light saber would in effect be able to cut galactus . since his durability is class 1000.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2005-03-22 01:25am

ali-sama wrote:admantium is a class 1000 metal. marvel levles go up expponentioally. shift x is enough to blow up a moon. then you got shift y and shift z.
a light saber would in effect be able to cut galactus . since his durability is class 1000.

Just as a clarrification Shift Z was classified as damage level of a tactical nuke. (The Revised Rulebook, later reiterated in Harpoon's character sheet when it stated that if he imbued a telephone pole with his mutant power the explosive force would equal a tactical nuke or Shift Z level) Shift X is nowhere near the level to blow up a moon. In the NYC sourcebook it would take Class 3000 damage to destroy the Brooklyn Bridge because of how sturdy it is.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2005-03-22 01:28am

Stravo wrote:
ali-sama wrote:admantium is a class 1000 metal. marvel levles go up expponentioally. shift x is enough to blow up a moon. then you got shift y and shift z.
a light saber would in effect be able to cut galactus . since his durability is class 1000.
Just as a clarrification Shift Z was classified as damage level of a tactical nuke. (The Revised Rulebook, later reiterated in Harpoon's character sheet when it stated that if he imbued a telephone pole with his mutant power the explosive force would equal a tactical nuke or Shift Z level) Shift X is nowhere near the level to blow up a moon. In the NYC sourcebook it would take Class 3000 damage to destroy the Brooklyn Bridge because of how sturdy it is.

I am infinitely amused by the idea of Adamantium being inferior to the Brooklyn Bridge.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2005-03-22 01:31am

SirNitram wrote:
Stravo wrote:
ali-sama wrote:admantium is a class 1000 metal. marvel levles go up expponentioally. shift x is enough to blow up a moon. then you got shift y and shift z.
a light saber would in effect be able to cut galactus . since his durability is class 1000.
Just as a clarrification Shift Z was classified as damage level of a tactical nuke. (The Revised Rulebook, later reiterated in Harpoon's character sheet when it stated that if he imbued a telephone pole with his mutant power the explosive force would equal a tactical nuke or Shift Z level) Shift X is nowhere near the level to blow up a moon. In the NYC sourcebook it would take Class 3000 damage to destroy the Brooklyn Bridge because of how sturdy it is.
I am infinitely amused by the idea of Adamantium being inferior to the Brooklyn Bridge.

The wonders of modern engineering. I'm just glad the writers of the sourebook didn't make it ridiculous so that any Joe Blow villain could take down the Bridge.

It also pegs the weirdly weak cosmic level of some villains under that gaming system. By those standards Galactus would have to exert his full power to just destroy the bridge.

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2005-03-22 01:38am

Is not normal matter also generaly indestructible ?

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2005-03-22 06:37am

Stravo wrote:
SirNitram wrote:
Stravo wrote: Just as a clarrification Shift Z was classified as damage level of a tactical nuke. (The Revised Rulebook, later reiterated in Harpoon's character sheet when it stated that if he imbued a telephone pole with his mutant power the explosive force would equal a tactical nuke or Shift Z level) Shift X is nowhere near the level to blow up a moon. In the NYC sourcebook it would take Class 3000 damage to destroy the Brooklyn Bridge because of how sturdy it is.
I am infinitely amused by the idea of Adamantium being inferior to the Brooklyn Bridge.
The wonders of modern engineering. I'm just glad the writers of the sourebook didn't make it ridiculous so that any Joe Blow villain could take down the Bridge.

It also pegs the weirdly weak cosmic level of some villains under that gaming system. By those standards Galactus would have to exert his full power to just destroy the bridge.

BWHAHAHAHA...I remember that. What's funnier is how things like some Shang-Chi or someone has class 1000 Martial arts or some shit. Meaning he could whip Sentinel ass, barehanded. Both Marvel and DC RPGs had the funniest stats for shit.

Oh and Styphon, if you're not going to put the effort and actually quantify both, shut the fuck up.

Adamantium has been broken, and beaten down, and not by people going "By the power Odin, this yonder metal is invincible!!...but if I use the.......". Literally you are doing what rabid retard marvel fanboy always does "Ummm...but look at what the other thing does!!!" Gee, haven't heard that one before a concession because they have the lack of proof a groundhog has about the seasons.

Xon · Post by **Xon** » 2005-03-22 07:56am

Stravo wrote:Just as a clarrification Shift Z was classified as damage level of a tactical nuke. (The Revised Rulebook, later reiterated in Harpoon's character sheet when it stated that if he imbued a telephone pole with his mutant power the explosive force would equal a tactical nuke or Shift Z level) Shift X is nowhere near the level to blow up a moon. In the NYC sourcebook it would take Class 3000 damage to destroy the Brooklyn Bridge because of how sturdy it is.

So how would you classify a StarDestroyer's weapons and shields under such a system? Or an Staraget-verse Ancient ZPM which can frag a solar system at 1/2 charge?

Describe it in exponent form?

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2005-03-22 08:12am

ggs wrote:
Stravo wrote:Just as a clarrification Shift Z was classified as damage level of a tactical nuke. (The Revised Rulebook, later reiterated in Harpoon's character sheet when it stated that if he imbued a telephone pole with his mutant power the explosive force would equal a tactical nuke or Shift Z level) Shift X is nowhere near the level to blow up a moon. In the NYC sourcebook it would take Class 3000 damage to destroy the Brooklyn Bridge because of how sturdy it is.
So how would you classify a StarDestroyer's weapons and shields under such a system? Or an Staraget-verse Ancient ZPM which can frag a solar system at 1/2 charge?

Describe it in exponent form?

Beyond but below Infinite

I shit you not...they classfied everything above Class 5000 as that regardless.

ali-sama · Post by **ali-sama** » 2005-03-22 02:20pm

ggs wrote:
Stravo wrote:Just as a clarrification Shift Z was classified as damage level of a tactical nuke. (The Revised Rulebook, later reiterated in Harpoon's character sheet when it stated that if he imbued a telephone pole with his mutant power the explosive force would equal a tactical nuke or Shift Z level) Shift X is nowhere near the level to blow up a moon. In the NYC sourcebook it would take Class 3000 damage to destroy the Brooklyn Bridge because of how sturdy it is.
So how would you classify a StarDestroyer's weapons and shields under such a system? Or an Staraget-verse Ancient ZPM which can frag a solar system at 1/2 charge?

Describe it in exponent form?

here is a conversions of some sw characters and mecha using the traditional marvel system.
http://rivendell.fortunecity.com/battle ... arwars.htm
we used to powergame in marvel when i was in highschool. we took out galaxies with class 5000 blasts. The galaxies blowing up being colladeral dammage. Ened up destroyeing serveral universes with some of the beyonder blasts.

Styphon · Post by **Styphon** » 2005-03-22 02:20pm

Ghost Rider wrote:Oh and Styphon, if you're not going to put the effort and actually quantify both, shut the fuck up.

Adamantium has been broken, and beaten down, and not by people going "By the power Odin, this yonder metal is invincible!!...but if I use the.......". Literally you are doing what rabid retard marvel fanboy always does "Ummm...but look at what the other thing does!!!" Gee, haven't heard that one before a concession because they have the lack of proof a groundhog has about the seasons.

God, sorry for having to sleep, eat, and check on my other message boards first...

Why do you people keep assuming I'm some rabid X-men fanboy? All I know of X-men is what I've picked up from the cartoons, the movies, and from my friend who happens to write alternate universe X-men fanfiction...
speaking of that friend, since I've jumped into a debate about something I don't know too perfectly well, I e-mailed her asking for some assistance in both X-men knowledge and logic last night, since I'll admit she's better than me at both... mostly I just got confirmation of things I'd already been thinking... like...

We should throw out those game system based calculations, cause they're based on a shitty game system... not to mention, although she didn't know this, it's already been stated a thousand times over on this board that game stats aren't usable source material (see every 40k debate ever), so it doesn't even matter how shitty the game system is...

fuck it, I'm just gonna quote her whole thing now...

Well, um, first, they're using a crappy game system. *^_^* I'm sorry, I'm calling it like I see it. Marvel Superheroes is not a very good gaming system. I have the original system, maybe it's changed, but from my experience, it sucks.
In canon, Adamantium can only be shaped for a very short time after it's formation, as it's an alloy. Of course, I blow this out of the freakin' water in my universe (where it's an actual element), but according to The Marvel Directory, that's where canon is. Of course, I'm depending on the reliability of that site. *shrugs* Afterwards, Marvel puts it forth as "practically indestructable." (Of course, Magneto went and proved it's at least malleable under enough stress. *realization* Hey, wait, WTF was that about? If "Only a device celled a Molecular Rearranger can alter the form of hardened Adamantium", then what did Mags do to Wolverine? Dammit, even when Marvel was good, it was bad! Ugh! *falls over the dies*)
What have we really seen lightsabres do in canon that could not be done by a powerful enough plasma welding torch? No, really? Cutting through flesh, no problem. They've cut through some doors, but I think in some cases, it's taken a while. You already linked to the thread where NecronLord has good from-canon arguments in the thread that was linked to (http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=64117) .
1. The side of the reactor pit in episode one. Maul hits it repeatedly, and only raises sparks, not even making the edge glow.
2. Dooku's ship's armoured hull deflects a blow from his lightsabre, leaving a small portion glowing.
3. Darth Vader's body armour is resistant to lightsabre blows. It deflects Luke's sabre in TESB
4. Not once, but twice, the sabres of Lord Vader and his son are blocked by the railings of the Emperor's throne room. Luke later slices through these same railings with a heavy overarm strike using both hands, indicating that the railings are only good against glancing blows.
And later, "Mandolirian armour can stop lightsabres." NecronLord knows better what rules y'all are operating under.
"Lightsabres can cut through anything" is a popular fan idea, but I don't see it born out through canon, or else Luke never would have been stopped by a closing door.
BTW, your initial argument was not a straw man. It was a quite legitimate point-out of a logical fallacy (attempting to negate a "no limits" fallacy with another "no limits" fallacy). Frankly, I don't think these people are worth arguing with on this one. When fanboys start doing stuff like this, there's little you can do with them. (See an infinite number of "Kenshin vs. whoever" threads on other fan boards.)

before I go, a little thing about Magneto effecting Adamantium... this is a guy who can fuck with the entire planet's magnetic field... really don't think that's helping YOUR argument if it takes that kind of power to mess with Adamantium...

now, either use the logic you claim to be so fond of or flame me for running crying to my mommy (who she's not

), either way I'm done until you guys stop being fanboys...

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2005-03-22 02:24pm

Requiring you to objectively quantify Adamantium instead of going 'lookit i found teh thingie wich i tink proofs me raight!!!111' is 'acting like fanboys'? You're amusing. Shall I just state 'last chance', or will you even bother trying to act like less than an idiot?

ali-sama · Post by **ali-sama** » 2005-03-22 03:14pm

Styphon wrote:
Ghost Rider wrote:Oh and Styphon, if you're not going to put the effort and actually quantify both, shut the fuck up.

Adamantium has been broken, and beaten down, and not by people going "By the power Odin, this yonder metal is invincible!!...but if I use the.......". Literally you are doing what rabid retard marvel fanboy always does "Ummm...but look at what the other thing does!!!" Gee, haven't heard that one before a concession because they have the lack of proof a groundhog has about the seasons.
God, sorry for having to sleep, eat, and check on my other message boards first...

Why do you people keep assuming I'm some rabid X-men fanboy? All I know of X-men is what I've picked up from the cartoons, the movies, and from my friend who happens to write alternate universe X-men fanfiction...
speaking of that friend, since I've jumped into a debate about something I don't know too perfectly well, I e-mailed her asking for some assistance in both X-men knowledge and logic last night, since I'll admit she's better than me at both... mostly I just got confirmation of things I'd already been thinking... like...

We should throw out those game system based calculations, cause they're based on a shitty game system... not to mention, although she didn't know this, it's already been stated a thousand times over on this board that game stats aren't usable source material (see every 40k debate ever), so it doesn't even matter how shitty the game system is...

fuck it, I'm just gonna quote her whole thing now...

Well, um, first, they're using a crappy game system. *^_^* I'm sorry, I'm calling it like I see it. Marvel Superheroes is not a very good gaming system. I have the original system, maybe it's changed, but from my experience, it sucks.
In canon, Adamantium can only be shaped for a very short time after it's formation, as it's an alloy. Of course, I blow this out of the freakin' water in my universe (where it's an actual element), but according to The Marvel Directory, that's where canon is. Of course, I'm depending on the reliability of that site. *shrugs* Afterwards, Marvel puts it forth as "practically indestructable." (Of course, Magneto went and proved it's at least malleable under enough stress. *realization* Hey, wait, WTF was that about? If "Only a device celled a Molecular Rearranger can alter the form of hardened Adamantium", then what did Mags do to Wolverine? Dammit, even when Marvel was good, it was bad! Ugh! *falls over the dies*)
What have we really seen lightsabres do in canon that could not be done by a powerful enough plasma welding torch? No, really? Cutting through flesh, no problem. They've cut through some doors, but I think in some cases, it's taken a while. You already linked to the thread where NecronLord has good from-canon arguments in the thread that was linked to (http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=64117) .
1. The side of the reactor pit in episode one. Maul hits it repeatedly, and only raises sparks, not even making the edge glow.
2. Dooku's ship's armoured hull deflects a blow from his lightsabre, leaving a small portion glowing.
3. Darth Vader's body armour is resistant to lightsabre blows. It deflects Luke's sabre in TESB
4. Not once, but twice, the sabres of Lord Vader and his son are blocked by the railings of the Emperor's throne room. Luke later slices through these same railings with a heavy overarm strike using both hands, indicating that the railings are only good against glancing blows.
And later, "Mandolirian armour can stop lightsabres." NecronLord knows better what rules y'all are operating under.
"Lightsabres can cut through anything" is a popular fan idea, but I don't see it born out through canon, or else Luke never would have been stopped by a closing door.
BTW, your initial argument was not a straw man. It was a quite legitimate point-out of a logical fallacy (attempting to negate a "no limits" fallacy with another "no limits" fallacy). Frankly, I don't think these people are worth arguing with on this one. When fanboys start doing stuff like this, there's little you can do with them. (See an infinite number of "Kenshin vs. whoever" threads on other fan boards.)
before I go, a little thing about Magneto effecting Adamantium... this is a guy who can fuck with the entire planet's magnetic field... really don't think that's helping YOUR argument if it takes that kind of power to mess with Adamantium...

now, either use the logic you claim to be so fond of or flame me for running crying to my mommy (who she's not ), either way I'm done until you guys stop being fanboys...

magneto crushed the core of the earth in x-men to increase his powers and block prof x from finding him

ali-sama · Post by **ali-sama** » 2005-03-22 03:18pm

SirNitram wrote:Requiring you to objectively quantify Adamantium instead of going 'lookit i found teh thingie wich i tink proofs me raight!!!111' is 'acting like fanboys'? You're amusing. Shall I just state 'last chance', or will you even bother trying to act like less than an idiot?

admantiium is a class 1000 metal. shift x punches are like 500 megaton nukes. gladiator who is not a class 1000 being, with one punch, blew up an earth type planet.