Of course people will at a certain limit, but how many of them make it the modus operandi of any discussion the moment someone consistantly doesn't agree with them, no matter how trivial subject? I've seen plenty of people scream that people were idiots in a discussion of X-Men superpowers once at Comicon in a very similar way to the way people argue here, and it was the saddest thing I've ever seen there (particularly when the spittle came into play). What makes it any better here?Ghost Rider wrote:Sorry...if they think because telling them they are a fucking moron dissuades them, then really no point in arguing because I've had more then my share of civilized people when it comes down to it, will break down, scream and call all sorts of names to insure their point is brought forth.
It's not about making a friend, it's about your own behaviour being civilized. If you want to convince a person that they are wrong, do you scream and yell at them? Of course not, they'll stop listening to you and you'll never get your point across, because you turned a discussion into a fight. I swear, half the Walls of Ignorance that people complain about here wouldn't exist if people didn't make what should be an idle debate on a non-serious subject into a fight, and once it becomes a fight people aren't going to concede their position no matter what, just because they don't want the other person to have the last word. How much sense does that make? If the point of a debate is to get your point across to the other person, personability is easily the most effective way to do it, not bellowing. Unless, of course, the point of the debate isn't to be productive and just be a dick waving contest.When arguing I am not here to make a friend in a debate where your position is wrong.
Why bother? The moment you start insulting them, they'll never listen to you. Why not ignore them? I know that would mean giving them the last word, but if you've already beaten them with the facts, who cares?If your position is a subjective one between us...then fine I have no problem. If it's one where there is a clear objective line and I've shown you how to find out how I came to my conclusion that Gravity, while a theory, will take more then your ignorant say so to prove me wrong. Then I will call ou a moron.
Let me ask you this. In real life, when you are talking to a person you know and they aren't taking your position (taking a "stupid" one instead), do you blast the fuck out of them or do you remain diplomatic? If the latter, what is different here, the anonymous nature of the internet?Profanity doesn't mean a damned thing, and calling a person a moron when they are amply demonstrating so is not a bad thing to do. I dislike and have always disliked dancing around and appeasing someone's feelings. If the situation is better for being diplomatic then so be it. But if the situation is to appease someone ego because they are being purposefully ignorant then sorry.
I mean, god, from my personal experience I know that if I ripped into the people I know in real life the same way many SD.nets do when one of them utters some damn fool thing (for example, the benefits of homopathic medicine, which I admit I felt the urge to yell a little), I wouldn't have any friends left. They'd have all came to the conclusion that I was an asshole and not talk to me, ever.
That's not to say flaming is bad in all situation, naturally. A well placed insult, particularly if they started it, is an excellent way to set a person off and get them angry enough to say how they really feel (which makes it isn't to get the the heart of the matter occasionally, which is 19/20ths of the barbs I come up with, to speed things along). However, civility in general makes things go alot smooth if the point of a debate or discussion is to get to a productive conclusion.
Yes, but how many posters draw that line? I've seen plenty of new posters get completely toasted for the same stumbling around I did when I first started message boarding and as a result, they didn't come back. I've watched someone mention that they were vegetarian in a thread where they asked for information on animal product free brewing and jackasses jumped him for it, as though him being a vegetarian was an affront to them and demanded with much insults that he rationalize his position. I've seen some new posters say that a Jedi might lose a fight and no less than five people immediately started flaming the hell out of him, though granted three of them were just "me tooing" the other two. Frankly, when you make being an asshole the debating norm, then people won't make the line you described and just flame any person unfortunate enough to step on a subject that has a taboo they couldn't have been aware off. And that drives off people who could have made honest intelligent contributions to the board, particularly female honest intelligent contributions to the board (women don't tend to stick around in places where even the most trivial discussion can turn into a massive flamewar). After all, who would waste their time getting blasted as being a moron because they didn't know some aspect of science, or had to gall to be religious, or have a thing about animal rights, or any of the other myriad of subjects that jackasses ambush and flame a person over.If they are doing it out a position of not knowing the subject then, fine I'll be nice and inform them what they should seek, where to find it, and what to read to futher their studies. But if they come blustering in like a moron thinking they've come upon a new source of wisdom that obviously has never been seen or heard of and are thinking they can refute things without providing proof and continue upon ignorance. I have no problem telling them they are a fucking idiot.
It's one thing to come in and want to learn and stumble...it's another to bluster like a jackass.
I mean, come on. It would do nothing but help the board if people learned to tone it down a little. We are well past the point where our board would make a hilarious entry on the Flamewarrior page, but we can at least try to effect a positive change in our social environment.
