The most elaborate TV crossover universe in history

dr. what · Post by **dr. what** » 2004-10-04 01:48am

Ok--my head just exploded from trying to figure this out....

Got this little conundrum from here http://www.xoverboard.com/blogarchive/w ... tml#000967

I absolutely love things like this. Brace yourself, this one's a bit complicated.

Okay, so there was once this medical drama on TV called St. Elsewhere. It was before my time, but I know of it; probably a lot of you know what I'm talking about. The series, to much controversy, ended its final episode by revealing that the entire series- the characters, the story, everything- was in fact the dream of a dying autsitic child named Tommy Westphall.

A strange concept in itself, but wait- this just gets better.

This website http://home.vicnet.net.au/~kwgow/crossovers.html has started tracking an interesting "gimmick" of television- crossovers. For example, a character on one show appears not just as the same actor, but actually the same character. Like, say, Michael Richards as Kramer appearing on an episode of Mad About You. It's a gimmick, but it also suggests, logically, that Mad About You and Seinfeld exist in the same "universe" of story continuity.

Thanks to series creator Tom Fontana, of Oz, Homicide, and Law & Order fame, these crossovers occur frequently. Richard Belzer, for example, has played Detective John Munch on at least three series. So since this guy exists in all these series, that means Oz, Homicide, and Law & Order take place in the same New York City in the same plane of TV existence.

Now, on an episode of The X-Files, Belzer once again appeared as Munch. Logic dictates that this means The X-Files exists in the same plane as Law & Order: SVU. But wait, in a later episode of The X-Files, there's a crossover from a character from Millenium, so those two series also share the same universe.

You're starting to see where this is going, aren't you?

That's right... on one episode of Law & Order, the lawyers were involved in a trial of a doctor from St. Elsewhere. Which, as explained above, didn't really exist.

So this website, by means of a Kevin-Bacon-style relationship of crossovers, has logically linked one hundred and sixty-two television series as existing in the same universe of continuity... and therefore are all the creation of the autistic Tommy Westphall.

In other words, in a very subtle, but logically solid way, Tom Fontana has technically implied that over 160 television shows are complete figments of one of his own characters' imagination.

The man is a genius.

Post by **Gandalf** » 2004-10-04 02:08am

There's a big inconsistency with the Mad About You/Seinfeld crossover.

In an ep of MAY, Paul visits Kramer. He's clearly his Seinfeld character. In an ep of Seinfeld, Susan mentions taping Mad About You. (At least I think it was Susan.)

That's been bothering me for years.

dr. what · Post by **dr. what** » 2004-10-04 02:22am

I've been thinking about this some more--Ok--so, like, 164 shows are connected to Law & Order and St. Elsewhere--and St. Elsewhere was just some kid's imagination...

But wait--on several of the shows listed, there's been crossovers with 'real people' (for example--the real mayor of New York often makes cameos as the mayor of New York on Law and Order). This implies a connection with the Law and Order/St. Elsewhere universe--which has already been established to be fake--which implies, by extension, that our universe is ALSO the product of some kid's imagination....

But wait again! There's been crossovers of tv shows with cartoon shows--namely The Simpsons (remember the episode where Scully and Mulder investigate a mysterious alien in Springfield?). This implies that The Simpsons are within the X-Files universe--which is connected to our universe--which is the product of some kid's imagination.....

And The Simpsons are ALSO connected with other cartoon shows--which are in turn loosely connected with other tv shows...

What this means is that not only are 164 tv shows the product of a child's imagination but nearly every cartoon show AND our own universe as well....

Post by **Gandalf** » 2004-10-04 02:27am

Well the Simpsons episode with Mulder & Scully also had ALF, Gort, Marvin the Martian and Chewbacca.

There's a few universes for you.

SylasGaunt · Post by **SylasGaunt** » 2004-10-04 02:30am

You've made my brain hurt. Thanks.

Post by **Gandalf** » 2004-10-04 02:39am

Fictional characters on the Simpsons I can think of:

The Flintstones (An opening couch gag)
Lt. Sulu (On the sub when Homer joins the Navy)
Spinal Tap
The cast of Cheers (Sans Frasier, when Homer looks for a new bar to hang out in)
Dr Strangelove (He's visible when we see the "War Room" in the ep where Bob gets the nuke.)

Think of the universes that gives us.

More later.

Edit: A few more:

Peter from Family Guy
Bender from Futurama
The Hill family from King of The Hill
Fat Albert
The Fonz
Those guys from the Archie comics

Demandred · Post by **Demandred** » 2004-10-04 02:57am

Peter from Family Guy

In the Family Guy Spider Man appeared

The Fonz was also on South Park

InnerBrat · Post by **InnerBrat** » 2004-10-04 06:46am

Half the grid is based on a Friends/Caroline in the City crossover. If this occured in CitC, fine, but I don't remember it, but it's not mentioned in Friends. Yes, the actress who plays Caroline appears in an episode, but not playing Caroline, unless someone can show that Caroline has a gay brother in a serious long term relationship and that they're trying to adopt.

Similar for Annie. That's the actress, not the character.

Post by **Gandalf** » 2004-10-04 06:49am

InnerBrat wrote:Half the grid is based on a Friends/Caroline in the City crossover. If this occured in CitC, fine, but I don't remember it, but it's not mentioned in Friends. Yes, the actress who plays Caroline appears in an episode, but not playing Caroline, unless someone can show that Caroline has a gay brother in a serious long term relationship and that they're trying to adopt.

Similar for Annie. That's the actress, not the character.

My local TV guide billed it as a crossover. Don't know if it counts though.

InnerBrat · Post by **InnerBrat** » 2004-10-04 06:58am

Gandalf wrote:
InnerBrat wrote:Half the grid is based on a Friends/Caroline in the City crossover. If this occured in CitC, fine, but I don't remember it, but it's not mentioned in Friends. Yes, the actress who plays Caroline appears in an episode, but not playing Caroline, unless someone can show that Caroline has a gay brother in a serious long term relationship and that they're trying to adopt.

Similar for Annie. That's the actress, not the character.
My local TV guide billed it as a crossover. Don't know if it counts though.

Billed which episode? TOW Nana Dies Twice or TOW the Baby on the Bus? The character in Nana is called Andrea, not Annie, and although Lee's character doesn't have a name, if Caroline doesn't have a gay brother, then it ain't her, any more then Manny in Black Books also masquerades as Bilbo and runs a comic shop...

Post by **Gandalf** » 2004-10-04 07:03am

InnerBrat wrote:
Gandalf wrote:
InnerBrat wrote:Half the grid is based on a Friends/Caroline in the City crossover. If this occured in CitC, fine, but I don't remember it, but it's not mentioned in Friends. Yes, the actress who plays Caroline appears in an episode, but not playing Caroline, unless someone can show that Caroline has a gay brother in a serious long term relationship and that they're trying to adopt.

Similar for Annie. That's the actress, not the character.
My local TV guide billed it as a crossover. Don't know if it counts though.
Billed which episode? TOW Nana Dies Twice or TOW the Baby on the Bus?

I can't remember the name of the ep, but it involved Chandler in a video store, trying to impress Annie by picking up a copy of The Piano. He then saw she had a few slasher movies.

dr. what · Post by **dr. what** » 2004-10-04 09:57am

InnerBrat wrote: Billed which episode? TOW Nana Dies Twice or TOW the Baby on the Bus? The character in Nana is called Andrea, not Annie, and although Lee's character doesn't have a name, if Caroline doesn't have a gay brother, then it ain't her, any more then Manny in Black Books also masquerades as Bilbo and runs a comic shop...

Is there just the one connection? How about we think of another one? Friends/Mad about You had the Phoebe and her twin connection, so all we have to do is try to connect CitC with either one through a different route.

Just realized that we're argueing over what is considered canon --TV Guide 'background info' or what was directly said in the actual episode....

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2004-10-04 03:26pm

Well, it's obvious to me that Lucy Butler, in conjunction with Madison Avenue, has stolen the brain of America.

Warm, soft cookies for those that get that one.

StarshipTitanic · Post by **StarshipTitanic** » 2004-10-04 03:43pm

When was The Bob Newhart Show crossed over with I Dream of Jeannie?

dr. what · Post by **dr. what** » 2004-10-04 04:43pm

StarshipTitanic wrote:When was The Bob Newhart Show crossed over with I Dream of Jeannie?

On The Bob Newhart Show reunion special Howard Borden said he once dreamed he was Astronaut Roger Healey and dreamed the
entire series I Dream of Jeannie.

InnerBrat · Post by **InnerBrat** » 2004-10-04 05:01pm

dr. what wrote:
InnerBrat wrote: Billed which episode? TOW Nana Dies Twice or TOW the Baby on the Bus? The character in Nana is called Andrea, not Annie, and although Lee's character doesn't have a name, if Caroline doesn't have a gay brother, then it ain't her, any more then Manny in Black Books also masquerades as Bilbo and runs a comic shop...
Is there just the one connection? How about we think of another one? Friends/Mad about You had the Phoebe and her twin connection, so all we have to do is try to connect CitC with either one through a different route.

Just realized that we're argueing over what is considered canon --TV Guide 'background info' or what was directly said in the actual episode....

Did you look at the spreadsheet? The Mad About You connection is dependent on the non existent CitC/Friends connection...

This is of course unless one of the Friends was in CitC, which I didn't watch, Gandalf: I honestly don't remember that episode. The only Friends in Video store I can remember is Monica and Richard.

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2004-10-04 05:08pm

Our universe can't be part of Tommy's dream, since his character was made by someone from the real world. So then, how can someone who's just a dream think up the person who's dreaming him and therefore make the entire universe nonexistant?

Barring some sort of paradox, I don't think he can.

*walks away, having successfully sucked the fun right out of the room*

Agent Fisher · Post by **Agent Fisher** » 2004-10-04 05:10pm

Reno 911 is connect to cops which is connected to X-files and so on and so on.