If a policeman attacks you for no reason (RAR!)

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If a policeman attacks you for no reason (RAR!)

Post by Shroom Man 777 »

This is truly a disturbing randome altarnate realty. A hippotheticel senareo of horrer.

So, with these recent police brutality threads, and the hysteria and anger and exaggerated statement by some, I wonder.

If you're walking along one day, peacefully minding your business, and then a policeman calls you over and it looks like he's just gonna ask you a few questions or shit. Then he tells you to get down on your knees, he seems suddenly agitated, and you obediently do get down on your knees, because good citizens comply, rite? Right. Suddenly, as you kneel, the police officer kicks you in the face and you reel, and now you're down he starts kicking you and hitting you and maybe clubbing or tasering you, brutalizing your testicles and your ovaries and all manner of shit, and spitting at you and cursing and screaming. Something like that.

Your face is all fucked up, your nose is broken, you've spat out your front teeth and the blood from your nasal cavity is dripping to the back of your mouth, one of your eyes has swollen shut. Your ribs hurt like fuck, breathing hurts. If you touch your groin, you can't feel your testicles anymore because his stomping has scrambled it into mashed potatoes. Or, likewise, your ovaries. One of your ears is ringing, deafened. You're all bruised up, cut up and fucked up. Maybe the police officer ripped your clothes off, partially or completely, in the process of beating you. Your forehead is wounded, your face is bleeding profusely. You believe that you are going to die.

But then he stops and walks back a few feet. You try to get up. You look at him, and you see that he's drawing his gun. He will kill you. But he turns around first, to see if there are any witnesses.

In this brief moment, you have the choice to defend yourself - there is a rock, or a piece of broken glass, a broken bottle, or a metal pipe, on the ground. The cop is still scoping for witnesses, making sure nobody's seen or heard the commotion.

It's a dead end. You can't run away, because there's a wall. If you run PAST the police officer, he still has his gun and he will shoot you before you can escape (and report his brutality to you).

The only way out is to smash his skull in, or cut his throat with the bottle, or ram the pipe up his... you get the picture.

Would you do it to survive?

Or, in other words, if an authority figure suddenly starts doing violence towards you, would you defend yourself?

(Additional goodies. Since you don't know the guy, haven't seen his badge properly or his ID or rank and serial number, there's a chance that he might NOT be a police officer - that he might just be some murdering psycho pretending to be a cop!)

Well? :)

[I understand this may be a bit graphic. If this is too much, then please tell me and I'll remove this. I think this is pretty disturbing stuff, personally, and I wonder if I may be wrong to post this post.]
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Re: If a policeman attacks you for no reason (RAR!)

Post by Ilya Muromets »

Shroom, in that situation of course you're supposed to defend yourself. Deal with any legal difficulties later. This wacko's clearly trying to kill you for no good reason and has you cornered. There's no real choice. Him wearing a police uniform be damned.

Of course, personally speaking, I wouldn't know if I'd be able to defend myself. I've no illusions as to how tough or brave I am. Likely thing that'll probably happen would be I'd be too frozen in fear or shock and I'd either just stare dumbly while he shoots me, blubber and beg for my life before he shoots me, or try to make a break for it and hope he's lousy with moving targets. Then again, as I've never faced a real life or death situation of that sort, who knows? Maybe in desperation I would attack the guy, though how effectively a thin guy like me with no exercise (and injured as stated by the scenario) can fight off an armed cop who has apparently gone killfuck crazy is the question.
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Re: If a policeman attacks you for no reason (RAR!)

Post by Kamakazie Sith »

Shroom Man 777 wrote: The only way out is to smash his skull in, or cut his throat with the bottle, or ram the pipe up his... you get the picture.

Would you do it to survive?
Absolutely. Legally you'd be justified. Though I'd hate to see the court battle after the fact...
Or, in other words, if an authority figure suddenly starts doing violence towards you, would you defend yourself?
The violence that you described? Yes. Just a general beat down? No. I'd just take it and deal with the cop in court.
(Additional goodies. Since you don't know the guy, haven't seen his badge properly or his ID or rank and serial number, there's a chance that he might NOT be a police officer - that he might just be some murdering psycho pretending to be a cop!)

Well? :)
I personally feel that would make the decision a lot easier...
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Re: If a policeman attacks you for no reason (RAR!)

Post by Dave »

Considering the likely pain resulting from the injuries listed, I seriously doubt I could muster the energy to get up at that point, much less actually do anything else.
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Re: If a policeman attacks you for no reason (RAR!)

Post by Knife »

Well, in the first part of the scenario, I giggle to myself as he is beating me because I'm sooooo going to get paid by the city. By the end of it, yes I defend myself and kill the fucker. Having my teeth kicked in, ribs broke, ear drum mashed, nuts smashed, and assorted other injuries is more than enough to justify my story in court, especially with the list enshrined on an ER chart, reporters called in 10 minutes after that, just after I call a lawyer and the departments IAD.
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But as far as board culture in general, I do think that young male overaggression is a contributing factor to the general atmosphere of hostility. It's not SOS and the Mess throwing hand grenades all over the forum- Red
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Re: If a policeman attacks you for no reason (RAR!)

Post by Shroom Man 777 »

Alright, I guess that was pretty straightforward then. :P

Now I know that it is possible to nail cops for police brutality, despite the way cops make it difficult to prosecute/persecute their screwups, when one has really good evidence (like camera recordings, ala Rodney King).

But just how damn difficult is it to justify self-defense against cops, including the use of lethal force to protect oneself? Has this ever happened in an American court case? I mean, shit, if you do self-defense and kill the cop in the process, you're a cop-killer and shit gets real (other cops will fuck you up). What protection does one have in cases like these? Legal precedents? Laws?

Question is now less situational, and more procedural/legal.
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Re: If a policeman attacks you for no reason (RAR!)

Post by Ilya Muromets »

Assuming I survive the encounter, and in our legal environment? I call up my relatives in high-ranking police and military positions and ask for some help. Given the joke that's the Filipino legal system, every bit of influence helps. Mind you, I'm not gonna enjoy doing that since I'd rather do things completely by the book. But you can only do that if the courts are actually half-decent.

Given that this is a country where a judge sported injuries which clearly indicated he was savagely beaten and murdered in a hotel room (possibly by dirty cops), yet the NBI (National Bureau of Investigation for you non-Filipinos) got away with declaring it a suicide and calling the case closed, I'm not taking any chances.
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Re: If a policeman attacks you for no reason (RAR!)

Post by Shroom Man 777 »

This is why I mentioned "American" when talking about court cases, etcera. Their justice system is truly a fair and just one for theirs is a land where there is true equality, where the rule of law prevails amongst all men.

(I am being facetious again because we know that is totally not true. :P)

(But even then, they have it better than here and any Philippine examples would be terrible.)
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Re: If a policeman attacks you for no reason (RAR!)

Post by Big Phil »

This scenario seems made for Internet Tough Guy bullshit... and given that this is a board filled with abject cowards, that's really all it is. I can't imagine anyone wouldn't try to the defend themselves or escape, but I also have a tough time believing any of you have the courage to do it. I expect most people on this board would be on the ground, either unconscious or crying like a baby, and wouldn't have a chance to defend themselves.
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Re: If a policeman attacks you for no reason (RAR!)

Post by Knife »

Shroom Man 777 wrote:Alright, I guess that was pretty straightforward then. :P

Now I know that it is possible to nail cops for police brutality, despite the way cops make it difficult to prosecute/persecute their screwups, when one has really good evidence (like camera recordings, ala Rodney King).

But just how damn difficult is it to justify self-defense against cops, including the use of lethal force to protect oneself? Has this ever happened in an American court case? I mean, shit, if you do self-defense and kill the cop in the process, you're a cop-killer and shit gets real (other cops will fuck you up). What protection does one have in cases like these? Legal precedents? Laws?

Question is now less situational, and more procedural/legal.
If you succeed and kill the cop, it really becomes a he said/ you said situation with the cops record and your medical record. Like I said, with an ER chart documenting all that you listed in the OP, plus my testimony that he drew his weapon and was looking around like he was making sure there were no witnesses, even if he wasn't if he had his gun drawn and you believed he was about to shoot you, it puts a huge reasonable doubt into your trial.
They say, "the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots." I suppose it never occurred to them that they are the tyrants, not the patriots. Those weapons are not being used to fight some kind of tyranny; they are bringing them to an event where people are getting together to talk. -Mike Wong

But as far as board culture in general, I do think that young male overaggression is a contributing factor to the general atmosphere of hostility. It's not SOS and the Mess throwing hand grenades all over the forum- Red
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Re: If a policeman attacks you for no reason (RAR!)

Post by RIPP_n_WIPE »

That situation would never happen to me. One I'm not obliged to go to my knees for anyone, let alone a cop. I listen to my SGT when I am doing my job because I am legally obligated to. Anything outside of work I will immediately question. A civilian cop can go fuck himself with his baton. If this situation were to actually happen that cop for his sake had better hit me and kill me on the spot with his baton or hope to god my trigger hand is slow.

I don't even see where this type of situation would come up. A single cop, even one who is out to brutalize an innocent, probably isn't going to do it alone because he has no backup.

And if it is a single cop and no one is around, no witnesses what so ever, then you take your rock, pipe, shell casing and walk away.

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Re: If a policeman attacks you for no reason (RAR!)

Post by J »

As a poor defenceless woman I have a nearly airtight case for self-defence should I kill the police officer, chances are quite good that all charges against me will be dropped or beaten. So with that taken care of, rock to the head.
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Re: If a policeman attacks you for no reason (RAR!)

Post by Whiplash »

SancheztheWhaler wrote:This scenario seems made for Internet Tough Guy bullshit... and given that this is a board filled with abject cowards, that's really all it is. I can't imagine anyone wouldn't try to the defend themselves or escape, but I also have a tough time believing any of you have the courage to do it. I expect most people on this board would be on the ground, either unconscious or crying like a baby, and wouldn't have a chance to defend themselves.
At first I thought you were just being an asshole, but you've definitely been here long enough to make this judgment.

Case and point.
RIPP_n_WIPE wrote:That situation would never happen to me. One I'm not obliged to go to my knees for anyone, let alone a cop. I listen to my SGT when I am doing my job because I am legally obligated to. Anything outside of work I will immediately question. A civilian cop can go fuck himself with his baton. If this situation were to actually happen that cop for his sake had better hit me and kill me on the spot with his baton or hope to god my trigger hand is slow.

I don't even see where this type of situation would come up. A single cop, even one who is out to brutalize an innocent, probably isn't going to do it alone because he has no backup.

And if it is a single cop and no one is around, no witnesses what so ever, then you take your rock, pipe, shell casing and walk away.
Anyway ... yes I would kill the fucker. Call 911 and explain the situation and ask to be taken to the hospital (hoping that another cop doesn't come to finish me off).
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Re: If a policeman attacks you for no reason (RAR!)

Post by aerius »

That depends on how much money you got and who you know.
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Re: If a policeman attacks you for no reason (RAR!)

Post by Big Phil »

Whiplash wrote:
SancheztheWhaler wrote:This scenario seems made for Internet Tough Guy bullshit... and given that this is a board filled with abject cowards, that's really all it is. I can't imagine anyone wouldn't try to the defend themselves or escape, but I also have a tough time believing any of you have the courage to do it. I expect most people on this board would be on the ground, either unconscious or crying like a baby, and wouldn't have a chance to defend themselves.
At first I thought you were just being an asshole, but you've definitely been here long enough to make this judgment.
Just because I'm an asshole doesn't mean I'm wrong... :wink:
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Re: If a policeman attacks you for no reason (RAR!)

Post by Darksider »

SancheztheWhaler wrote:
Just because I'm an asshole doesn't mean I'm wrong... :wink:
I'm going to have to ask you to back your "abject cowards" statement up right the fuck now then, seeing as i've never seen any behavior on the board which would lead me to believe that the majority of our posters are unwilling to defend themselves under threat of death. Also, I've seen no sufficient evidence that you can determine weather or not someone is an "abject coward" simply by viewing their posts on an internet message board.

Proof please?

EDIT: Being rendered unconscious is a real possibility given the injuries described in the OP, but breaking down and crying like a baby? Back it up sanchez.
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Re: If a policeman attacks you for no reason (RAR!)

Post by Teebs »

For the beating, I can't see how I wouldn't just take it. I'm already on my knees in this scenario and once I've been hit by surprise I'm very unlikely to be in any position to fight back. As for the killing, I'd like to think I'd try to stop him with whatever force was necessary, but whether I'd be in any state to do so I hope I'll never find out.
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Re: If a policeman attacks you for no reason (RAR!)

Post by Kamakazie Sith »

RIPP_n_WIPE wrote:That situation would never happen to me. One I'm not obliged to go to my knees for anyone, let alone a cop. I listen to my SGT when I am doing my job because I am legally obligated to. Anything outside of work I will immediately question. A civilian cop can go fuck himself with his baton. If this situation were to actually happen that cop for his sake had better hit me and kill me on the spot with his baton or hope to god my trigger hand is slow.
Maybe I misunderstand you, but ignoring the scenario in the OP. What if you matched the description of a guy who just robbed a 7-11 with a gun and shot the clerk? Or you're driving a car that matched the description of a vehicle involved in a violent felony to a degree that the police decide to conduct a felony stop. You wouldn't comply? Is that what you're saying?
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Re: If a policeman attacks you for no reason (RAR!)

Post by Kanastrous »

Maybe I missed it somewhere up the page, but there's this concept called assault under color of authority. Which by your description sounds like what the cop in the OP is doing: taking advantage of uniform and badge to stage an unlawful assault (well, really, perpetrate unlawful battery).

I figure you can treat this the same way you would treat any such attack. Do whatever you have to, to defend yourself and get out alive. If you're worried about what a court says later...well, better to be tried by twelve than carried by six, they say.
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Re: If a policeman attacks you for no reason (RAR!)

Post by Zixinus »

If I am even conscious or able to act after such a beating... yes, I would definitely try. To be honest, with my non-existant training and poor fitness, I would be amazed that I could even function. But if I could still have the coordination, go straight for the head, preferably the spine or the thinner parts of the skull.

That is why I always ask to see a badge on any police officer and make sure that I got something from it. Otherwise, and I know that I am saying this without knowing the legal background, the guy is just a guy in a police uniform without being confirmed to be actually a police officer. He should have no power over me unless he confirms who he is.

As for a police officer telling me to get to my knees... well, that's a problem. I am not sure, but aren't the police only allowed to do that when there is a clear case of violence?
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Re: If a policeman attacks you for no reason (RAR!)

Post by Kanastrous »

Go for the eyes and genitals. Most vulnerable, easiest to score disabling damage, and most people will instinctively protect those areas, for obvious reasons...

...plus if you're already on the ground anyway and your attacker is standing over you, he's practically handing you his junk, on a platter that didn't come out right...
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Re: If a policeman attacks you for no reason (RAR!)

Post by Uraniun235 »

I can't help but think that in that much pain and after those kinds of injuries, I would be too hurt and disoriented to muster an effective defense. Maybe adrenalin would help, although I certainly hope I never have to find out firsthand.
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Re: If a policeman attacks you for no reason (RAR!)

Post by Kamakazie Sith »

Uraniun235 wrote:I can't help but think that in that much pain and after those kinds of injuries, I would be too hurt and disoriented to muster an effective defense. Maybe adrenalin would help, although I certainly hope I never have to find out firsthand.
I agree. With those kind of injuries you might not even realize what was about to happen let alone do something effective about it.

Frankly. Even if you were uninjured your chances of survival are pretty low because the officer has his weapon drawn and has already decided to kill you. Unless he engages in a monologue you are probably going to die.
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