Conflict erupts at Minneapolis, L.A. protests over George Floyd death

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Re: Conflict erupts at Minneapolis, L.A. protests over George Floyd death

Post by The Romulan Republic »

FaxModem1 wrote: 2020-07-02 10:20pm Okay, I'm done. Using bayonets on protesters. Fuck this government.
To be clear, some troops were issued bayonetes, but said bayonets were NOT deployed or used.

It is still fucked up that they were issued at all against civilian protesters, but exactly what I would expect from a regime that is openly campaigning for reelection using Nazi symbols.
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Re: Conflict erupts at Minneapolis, L.A. protests over George Floyd death

Post by Agent Fisher »

To be fair, never underestimate Army beucaracy when it comes to issuing equipment. These weren't MP or National Guard units, so it was likely a 'issue the regular stuff and add riot gear'. An example of how ridiculous it can be for getting gear you don't need or want, an American tank platoon commander, when deployed to Iraq and issued weapons, had his tank crew given two rifles, two carbines, a grenade launcher, a light machine gun, a shotgun, four pistols, and was going to be issued bayonets but he refused to sign for it as if he couldn't just run them over with the tank and was at the point where he'd need a bayonet, he wasn't fated to survive and was just gonna go home. This was in addition to all the machine guns normally mounted on the tank.
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Re: Conflict erupts at Minneapolis, L.A. protests over George Floyd death

Post by Zwinmar »

Bayonets automatically get issued when the weapon was drawn for us. They tended to get just shoved in the butt pack so they wouldnt be lost.
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Re: Conflict erupts at Minneapolis, L.A. protests over George Floyd death

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Remember that $1 Billion cut in the police budget New York City promised?

Turns out nearly half that "cut" is actually just moving school "safety" officers under the Department of Education instead of policing:

Image

AOC's already called them on it, proving once again why she's the best Democrat.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

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Re: Conflict erupts at Minneapolis, L.A. protests over George Floyd death

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Its interesting to see how the 4th of July is being approached in the US in light of recent events. There is the usual patriotism and partying, of course, and Trump's vile stunt at Mount Rushmore yesterday, but there's also more of a recognition from figures in the mainstream than I can recall seeing before that the 4th isn't Independence Day for everybody, and that the ideals and promises of the Declaration of Independence have not been lived up to.

My favorites from social media today:

Robert Reich:

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Joe Biden:

Image

The latter, of course, is not a particularly deep or radical statement, especially compared to the former. But I feel that its important that a mainstream, major party Presidential candidate is using the 4th, America's most sacred patriotic/nationalist holiday, to recognize that the promise of America has not been fulfilled, and to critique Jefferson's text, however softly. His post does three things:

1. It acknowledges that America's founding promise, which this day is supposed to celebrate, has not been kept for all people.

2. It implicitly critiques the text of the Declaration of Independence, which says that "all men" are created equal while excluding more than half the human race.

3. It critiques the Right-wing conception of equality and universal rights as something which ends at birth.

Such recognitions are, of course, no substitute for substantive policy. But they are a part, hopefully, of a cultural shift, which moves away from empty nationalist cheerleading to a deeper form of patriotism- one that acknowledges the failures of America, acknowledges the broken promises, and commits to living up to them.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
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Re: Conflict erupts at Minneapolis, L.A. protests over George Floyd death

Post by Nicholas »

A bit of proof that the police will tolerate minorities protesting while armed the same way they do whites.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-glob ... SKBN24605G
Predominantly Black armed protesters march through Confederate memorial park in Georgia

Steve Gorman

(Reuters) - A predominantly Black group of heavily armed protesters marched through Stone Mountain Park near Atlanta on Saturday, calling for removal of the giant Confederate rock carving at the site that civil rights activists consider a monument to racism.
FILE PHOTO: A man speaks into a bullhorn while pointing at the Confederate Monument carved into granite on Stone Mountain while protesting the monument at Stone Mountain Park in Stone Mountain, Georgia, U.S. June 16, 2020. REUTERS/Dustin Chambers

Video footage of the Independence Day rally posted on social media showed scores of demonstrators dressed in black - many in paramilitary-style clothing and all wearing face scarves - quietly parading several abreast down a sidewalk at the park.

Many of the protesters carried rifles, including military-type weapons, and some wore ammunition belts slung over their shoulders. Although African Americans appeared to account for the vast majority of the marchers, protesters of various races, men and women alike, were among the group.

One video clip showed a leader of the demonstrators, who was not identified, shouting into a loudspeaker in a challenge to white supremacists who historically have used Stone Mountain as a rallying spot of their own.

“I don’t see no white militia,” he declared. “We’re here. Where ... you at? We’re in your house. Let’s go.”

John Bankhead, a spokesman for the Stone Mountain Memorial Association, said the protesters were peaceful and orderly.

“It’s a public park, a state park. We have these protests on both sides of the issue from time to time. We respect people’s First Amendment right,” Bankhead told NBC affiliate station WXIA-TV.

“We understand the sensitivities of the issue here at the park ... so we respect that and allow them to come in as long as it’s peaceful, which it has been.”

Stone Mountain, which reopened for the holiday weekend following a weeks-long closure over the coronavirus, has faced renewed calls for its removal since the May 25 death of George Floyd, an unarmed Black man, at the hands of Minneapolis police.

Floyd’s killing helped revive a long-simmering conflict between groups seeking to do away with Confederate statues and sculptures, which they see as pro-slavery symbols, and those who believe they honor the traditions and history of the Deep South.

Nine stories high and spanning the length of a football field, the bas-relief Stone Mountain sculpture carved into a granite wall overlooking the Georgia countryside some 25 miles (40 km) east of Atlanta remains the largest such monument to America’s Civil War Confederacy.

It features the likenesses of Jefferson Davis, who was president of the 11-state Confederacy, and two of his legendary generals, Robert E. Lee and Thomas “Stonewall” Jackson.

Stone Mountain has long held symbolism for white supremacists. The Ku Klux Klan, a hate group that was formed by Confederate Army veterans and has a history of lynchings and terror against Black people, held its rebirth ceremony atop mountain in 1915 with flaming crosses. Klansmen still hold occasional gatherings in the shadows of the edifice, albeit now met with protesters behind police tape. Many of those cross-burnings took place on or around July 4.
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Re: Conflict erupts at Minneapolis, L.A. protests over George Floyd death

Post by Zaune »

I hate the fact that this makes me feel slightly better.
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Re: Conflict erupts at Minneapolis, L.A. protests over George Floyd death

Post by Kamakazie Sith »

Good for them. Maybe it will keep the white supremacists out as well.
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Re: Conflict erupts at Minneapolis, L.A. protests over George Floyd death

Post by The Romulan Republic »

There appears to be a rising wave of terrorist attacks using vehicles to drive into crowds of protesters.

At least 50 cases thus far linked to the Right.

Some of the vehicle rammings, of course, have been by police.

https://theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/ ... of-attacks
Sustained demonstrations across the US calling for racial justice and an end to police brutality in the wake of the May killing of George Floyd are being met with a rising trend for apparent counter-protesters using vehicles to threaten or slam into marchers.

Tension has also continued between protesters and police in some areas, with reports of law enforcement officers confronting crowds with flash-bang grenades and pepper spray.

In several US cities there has been a spate of people driving into protesters, with reports of multiple injuries and at least one death.

A truck was witnessed accelerating towards a small crowd demonstrating in Newton, near Boston, Massachusetts, on Tuesday.

“It was horrifying,” Rachel Alpert-Wisnia, a 16-year-old high school student, told the local outlet WCVB, after a man in a truck reportedly revved his engine and beeped before speeding toward the crowd.

Alpert-Wisnia was one of the organizers of the Black Lives Matter action, a protest group of mostly teens. In two videos shared online, a truck can be seen rushing toward the students as they fled to a driveway nearby.

New York police department officials confirmed they had detained a man who drove through a Black Lives Matter protest near Times Square in Manhattan on Tuesday night. The driver pulled on to the street after demonstrators first attempted to stop his car as they marched or cycled along.

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#BreakingNews an SUV just plowed through protesters on 42nd street in #manhattan Still assessing injuries if any. More on ⁦@NY1⁩ #blacklivesmatter #nycprotest more on ⁦@NY1⁩ pic.twitter.com/RMs1tsc2zT

July 8, 2020
No one was injured or arrested in the incident. The driver was later released by NYPD officers. According to authorities, protesters pushed their bikes under the SUV, and the vehicle rolled over them.

These are the latest of several incidents involving drivers endangering protesters in recent days. Elsewhere in New York state, Suffolk county officials confirmed they arrested a driver who hit two demonstrators taking part in a Black Lives Matter protest on Monday. The man initially sped away but was caught soon after and charged with third-degree assault.

“His charges need to be raised to at least a felony,” Jeremiah Bennett, 26, said in an interview. Bennett was one of two victims who were rushed to a nearby hospital with non life-threatening injuries.

Earlier this week, a Seattle man was arrested and is under investigation for vehicular assault after driving his car on to a freeway that had been blocked by protesters.

Witnesses reported that he swerved around makeshift roadblocks before hitting a panicked crowd of young activists.

Summer Taylor, 24, of Seattle, died and Diaz Love, 32, of Portland, Oregon, was seriously injured on Interstate 5 early on Sunday.

Taylor’s mother, Dalia Taylor, talked at a press conference on Wednesday about Summer’s love, empathy, and dedication to fighting for people’s rights.

“Even in death, we want Summer’s passion as an ally to continue lifting up Black lives in Seattle and all over our country,” Taylor said.

A detective, Mike Brown, in the King’s county sheriff’s office in Washington state has since been placed on leave and an investigation opened into reports that he posted on social media mocking the two activists who were hit.

The detective is a cousin of Washington Democratic governor Jay Inslee, known nationally for his work on the climate crisis and making that a central theme of his now-ended 2020 run for the presidency.

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I'm deeply disappointed and totally reject the language of my cousin Mike Brown who made inflammatory comments about recent protests. The language is unacceptable and just flat wrong, particularly from a law enforcement officer, as we try to heal the divisions of our community.

July 7, 2020
The driver of the car on I-5, Dawit Kelete, is in custody and a judge on Monday set a $1.2m bail.

John Henry Browne, Kelete’s lawyer, called the crash a “horrible, horrible accident”, telling the Associated Press “there’s absolutely nothing political about this case”.

“My client is in tears,” Browne said. “He’s very remorseful. He feels tremendous guilt”.

Kelete was charged on Wednesday with homicide.

There have also been instances of police patrol vehicles driving into protesters during the initial protests that broke out in the days after George Floyd, an African American man living in Minneapolis, was killed by a white police officer who kneeled on his neck.

And in an infamous 2017 case, the campaigner Heather Heyer was killed and numerous people badly injured in Charlottesville, Virginia, when those protesting a rightwing, white nationalist rally were crushed or thrown into the air after neo-Nazi sympathizer James Fields drove into them.

Last month a report from the University of Chicago’s Project on Security and Threats concluded that rightwing extremists were behind at least 50 vehicle-ramming incidents since the latest waves of protests began in late May.

At least 18 were categorized as deliberate while another two dozen were considered unclear as to motivation, or were still under investigation.

“The message they’re trying to send is, ‘You need to get out of the street and stop these protests,’” Ari Weil, a terrorism researcher and the report’s author, told NPR.

At least 20 people face prosecution for the attempted assaults, including a state leader of the Virginia Ku Klux Klan and other white supremacists. One California man was charged with attempted murder after antagonizing protesters and then driving into them, striking a teenage girl.

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Just informed 9 protesters arrested at #BlackLivesMatter Plaza of those #OccupyHStreet protesters. Was just told “we need people down here”.

With police sweep of tents yesterday, this is unsurprising. Police keep escalating tactics as ppl refuse to stop #DCProtests pic.twitter.com/thBfKNZ6B5

July 8, 2020
Donald Trump has balked at any associations between agitators and his base but has been accused of stoking racial division, especially in speeches over the Fourth of July long weekend.

He has called a proposed Black Lives Matter mural outside Trump Tower in New York City a “symbol of hate”.

Press secretary Kayleigh McEnany later attempted to clarify that the president was directing his remarks toward the organization and not protesters.

But an investigation by the Intercept found the Trump campaign falsely portrayed Black Lives Matter protesters who acted legally to stop a looter threatening violence as dangerous thugs plotting to “unleash a wave of violent crime in our cities” in two separate ads.

Meanwhile officers clashed with protesters outside the White House on Tuesday night after marchers gathered from different parts of Washington DC. Online, protesters shared videos of officers detaining organizers. According to WJLA, as many as eight were arrested but were later released by early Wednesday.

And tensions escalated between activists and law enforcement officials across the country, with clashes reported in states including Georgia, Washington, Oregon and Maryland.
Remember when Charlottsville shocked the whole country? Now its just another day in America.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

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Re: Conflict erupts at Minneapolis, L.A. protests over George Floyd death

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Pulled this off Tumblr- I'm not sure of the veracity of the source, but it adds up:

Image

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"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
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Re: Conflict erupts at Minneapolis, L.A. protests over George Floyd death

Post by MKSheppard »

Lol spoken like someone who's never been a public servant. Life sucks, fuck overtime, go home on time
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Re: Conflict erupts at Minneapolis, L.A. protests over George Floyd death

Post by mr friendly guy »

I don't know Shep. It depends on a lot of factors to be willing to work overtime. In my 20s I would jump out to get extra work and make money. Now I am more interested in work life balance, so it doesn't seem implausible to me that some cops would like to work overtime.
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Re: Conflict erupts at Minneapolis, L.A. protests over George Floyd death

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mr friendly guy wrote: 2020-07-17 11:34am I don't know Shep. It depends on a lot of factors to be willing to work overtime. In my 20s I would jump out to get extra work and make money. Now I am more interested in work life balance, so it doesn't seem implausible to me that some cops would like to work overtime.
Police overtime is very different from normal overtime, it was like my overtime at my old job in that a great deal of time on the clock involves very little from minute to minute. If your sitting in the car, or driving from place to place it's not the same thing as being on the line for 12 hours a day or warehouse overtime. I recall days I worked 14 hours days and did not notice because there was 3 hours of driving in there an hour lunch (Paid) and sitting around talking about possible outcomes to a fix. There are several jobs where overtime with little supervision is great.

I know my local PD growing up in NC would take cat naps in the car between calls the entire time on overtime and no one would say a thing.

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Re: Conflict erupts at Minneapolis, L.A. protests over George Floyd death

Post by MKSheppard »

MR FRIENDLY GUY, HAPPY COMMIE wrote:I don't know Shep. It depends on a lot of factors to be willing to work overtime. In my 20s I would jump out to get extra work and make money. Now I am more interested in work life balance, so it doesn't seem implausible to me that some cops would like to work overtime.
Mr Bean wrote: 2020-07-17 12:23pmPolice overtime is very different from normal overtime
Look, let's look at this rationally. Cops have lives. (At least the ones more than a few months out of the academy do).

The last thing a cop wants to do is to arrest someone 30 minutes before their shift ends.

It's not just sitting around doing nothing but typing up papers and waiting to talk to the DA.

You can't go End of Watch until the detained person is formally turned over to someone; this may entail hours of watching over your prisoner, and then formally transporting them over to the local jail for turnover.

Baltimore starting salary is $53,512/year, or about $26~ bucks an hour.

Let's say you do all this to get three to four hours of overtime by randomly arresting someone -- at 1.5 scale, that's only $39 bucks/hour; or at 3.5 hours of extra OT, only $136.50. Taxes and whatever will take a big chunk out of that.

You're basically destroying your ability to have a normal life -- you're literally going to come home from work, strip your uniform and go straight to bed, for a measly $70-80 bucks extra. That doesn't buy shit in 2020.

Point One, you won't see that money for about two weeks, if your department is on a biweekly pay schedule.

Point Two, Baltimore Cops have had body cameras since July 2016, with full deployment since 2017. Want to risk false arrest and imprisonment charges for the equivalent of a single dinner night out or taking the kids to a movie?

Final point: If anything, cops will go "blue flu" as EOW approaches; so you have to do something blatantly egregious that they can't ignore.

If anything else, the REAL money maker are riots and civil unrest. That's where OT comes into play; where cops get paid time and a half to just sleep at the station -- if riots last an entire weekend, at 1.5 scale, 48 hours of overtime from a weekend of unrest translates into 72 hours of pay, or $1,872 extra. Even after the tax bite, that's about a grand more money.
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Re: Conflict erupts at Minneapolis, L.A. protests over George Floyd death

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MKSheppard wrote: 2020-07-17 11:14am Lol spoken like someone who's never been a public servant. Life sucks, fuck overtime, go home on time
Well then, as a PUBLIC SERVANT, let me say, I 100% agree with defunding the police if they're pulling shit like this. It's a waste of time, resources, and negatively effects lives.

Especially since, in most public jobs, overtime is closely watched and monitored.

This is literally the cops being able to write their own cheques for overtime, and it's disgusting.
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Re: Conflict erupts at Minneapolis, L.A. protests over George Floyd death

Post by Ziggy Stardust »

OH LOOK I CAN BE A SMUG FUCK AND CHANGE THE QUOTE HEADER TOO OMG LOL wrote: 2020-07-17 11:14am Lol spoken like someone who's never been a public servant. Life sucks, fuck overtime, go home on time

You do realize many public servants (other than cops, obviously) are essentially forced to work overtime without pay, right? Because they are chronically understaffed but qualifications for overtime pay are often unreasonably strict? I mean, I don't really know why I bother engaging with you, since I know you are just going to scamper off like a little bitch instead of actually bothering to substantiate any of your nonsense, like you always do. But for the benefit of everyone else I feel obliged to call out yet another one of your falsehoods.
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Re: Conflict erupts at Minneapolis, L.A. protests over George Floyd death

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Ziggy Stardust wrote: 2020-07-17 07:11pmYou do realize many public servants (other than cops, obviously) are essentially forced to work overtime without pay, right?
They should quit, then.

Meanwhile, somewhere, HR staffers and department heads wonder why they can't seem to keep new hires. :cry:
I don't really know why I bother engaging with you, since I know you are just going to scamper off like a little bitch instead of actually bothering to substantiate any of your nonsense, like you always do. But for the benefit of everyone else I feel obliged to call out yet another one of your falsehoods.
You...actually haven't bothered to refute any of my expanded non-tl;dr reasoning.
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Re: Conflict erupts at Minneapolis, L.A. protests over George Floyd death

Post by MKSheppard »

Solauren wrote: 2020-07-17 05:26pmThis is literally the cops being able to write their own cheques for overtime, and it's disgusting.
*thinks*

Could it be the killings of POC by police are a grand conspiracy by the police to boost their overtime by inciting riots?
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Re: Conflict erupts at Minneapolis, L.A. protests over George Floyd death

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MKSheppard wrote: 2020-07-17 04:53pm You're basically destroying your ability to have a normal life -- you're literally going to come home from work, strip your uniform and go straight to bed, for a measly $70-80 bucks extra. That doesn't buy shit in 2020.
Adds up pretty well. I've done multiple hours of work for less. Especially if it's work that requires minimal effort beyond being there.
Point One, you won't see that money for about two weeks, if your department is on a biweekly pay schedule.
So what?
Point Two, Baltimore Cops have had body cameras since July 2016, with full deployment since 2017. Want to risk false arrest and imprisonment charges for the equivalent of a single dinner night out or taking the kids to a movie?
Yeah, because if there's one thing we know cops need to worry about it's being charged with a crime for violating people's rights or misbehaving on the job.
They should quit, then.

Meanwhile, somewhere, HR staffers and department heads wonder why they can't seem to keep new hires.
And this makes your throwaway line less dumb how?
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Re: Conflict erupts at Minneapolis, L.A. protests over George Floyd death

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MKSheppard wrote: 2020-07-17 07:27pm
Solauren wrote: 2020-07-17 05:26pmThis is literally the cops being able to write their own cheques for overtime, and it's disgusting.
*thinks*

Could it be the killings of POC by police are a grand conspiracy by the police to boost their overtime by inciting riots?
I never mentioned riots or the current situation in the united states. I was referring to the above posted screen shots, that themselves referred to the practice by some members of law enforcement making questionable arrests near the end of their shift, to generate overtime for themselves.

You, on the other hand, are trolling.
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Re: Conflict erupts at Minneapolis, L.A. protests over George Floyd death

Post by mr friendly guy »

MKSheppard wrote: 2020-07-17 04:53pm
Look, let's look at this rationally. Cops have lives. (At least the ones more than a few months out of the academy do).

The last thing a cop wants to do is to arrest someone 30 minutes before their shift ends.

It's not just sitting around doing nothing but typing up papers and waiting to talk to the DA.

You can't go End of Watch until the detained person is formally turned over to someone; this may entail hours of watching over your prisoner, and then formally transporting them over to the local jail for turnover.

Baltimore starting salary is $53,512/year, or about $26~ bucks an hour.

Let's say you do all this to get three to four hours of overtime by randomly arresting someone -- at 1.5 scale, that's only $39 bucks/hour; or at 3.5 hours of extra OT, only $136.50. Taxes and whatever will take a big chunk out of that.

You're basically destroying your ability to have a normal life -- you're literally going to come home from work, strip your uniform and go straight to bed, for a measly $70-80 bucks extra. That doesn't buy shit in 2020.

Point One, you won't see that money for about two weeks, if your department is on a biweekly pay schedule.

Point Two, Baltimore Cops have had body cameras since July 2016, with full deployment since 2017. Want to risk false arrest and imprisonment charges for the equivalent of a single dinner night out or taking the kids to a movie?

Final point: If anything, cops will go "blue flu" as EOW approaches; so you have to do something blatantly egregious that they can't ignore.

If anything else, the REAL money maker are riots and civil unrest. That's where OT comes into play; where cops get paid time and a half to just sleep at the station -- if riots last an entire weekend, at 1.5 scale, 48 hours of overtime from a weekend of unrest translates into 72 hours of pay, or $1,872 extra. Even after the tax bite, that's about a grand more money.
Unlike the others, I will bite. If we assume your $136.50 extra, assume pay is biweekly and assume the cop gets 4 weeks leave per year. So if they do one of these arrests every pay period (2 weeks) that will mean OT for 24 pay periods in a year. That comes out to $3276 extra. Since you consider $1872 a "REAL money maker" then I don't see how this higher figure of $3276 isn't also a good money maker for the cop. And they only need to do this once every pay period (2 weeks) and that wouldn't affect their social life that much since its spread out.
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Re: Conflict erupts at Minneapolis, L.A. protests over George Floyd death

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Federal Officers Use Unmarked Vehicles To Grab People In Portland, DHS Confirms
July 17, 20201:04 PM ET
Heard on All Things Considered
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Police confront demonstrators in Portland, Ore., on July Fourth.
John Rudoff/Anadolu Agency via Getty Images
Updated at 8:48 p.m. ET

In the early hours of Wednesday, after a night spent protesting at the Multnomah County Justice Center and Mark O. Hatfield Federal Courthouse, Mark Pettibone and his friend Conner O'Shea decided to head home.

It had been a calm night compared with most protesting downtown. By 2 a.m. law enforcement hadn't used any tear gas and, with only a few exceptions, both the Portland, Ore., Police Bureau and federal law enforcement officers had stayed out of sight.

A block west of Chapman Square, Pettibone and O'Shea bumped into a group warning them that people in camouflage were driving around the area in unmarked minivans grabbing individuals off the street.

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"So that was terrifying to hear," Pettibone said.

They had barely made it half a block when an unmarked minivan pulled up in front of them.

"I see guys in camo," O'Shea said. "Four or five of them pop out, open the door and it was just like, 'Oh s**t. I don't know who you are or what you want with us.'"

Federal law enforcement officers have been using unmarked vehicles to drive around downtown Portland and detain protesters since at least Tuesday. Personal accounts and multiple videos posted online show the officers driving up to people, detaining individuals with no explanation about why they are being arrested, and driving off.

The tactic appears to be another escalation in federal force deployed on Portland city streets as federal officials and President Trump have said they plan to quell nightly protests outside the federal courthouse and Multnomah County Justice Center that have lasted for more than six weeks.

Officers from the U.S. Marshals Special Operations Group and U.S. Customs and Border Protection's Border Patrol Tactical Unit have been sent to Portland to protect federal property during the protests against racism and police brutality.

In a statement, the U.S. Marshals Service declined to comment on the practice of using unmarked vehicles but said its officers had not arrested Pettibone. The Marshals Service operates under the Department of Justice.

On Thursday, a Department of Homeland Security spokesperson said on background that the agency could confirm Acting DHS Secretary Chad Wolf was in Portland during the day. The spokesperson didn't acknowledge other questions about the arrests. U.S. Customs and Border Protection is part of DHS.

Speaking to NPR's All Things Considered on Friday, Homeland Security Acting Deputy Secretary Ken Cuccinelli acknowledged that federal agents had used unmarked vehicles to pick up people in Portland but said it was done to keep officers safe and away from crowds and to move detainees to a "safe location for questioning."

"The one instance I'm familiar with, they were, believed they had identified someone who had assaulted officers or ... the federal building there, the courthouse. Upon questioning, they determined they did not have the right person and that person was released," Cuccinelli said.

"I fully expect that as long as people continue to be violent and to destroy property that we will attempt to identify those folks," he added. "We will pick them up in front of the courthouse. If we spot them elsewhere, we will pick them up elsewhere. And if we have a question about somebody's identity, like the first example I noted to you, after questioning determine it isn't someone of interest, then they get released. And that's standard law enforcement procedure, and it's going to continue as long as the violence continues."

Customs and Border Protection released a statement Friday about one incident on video, though it did not specify which one. It said its agents approached a person suspected of assaulting federal agents or destroying federal property, but "a large and violent mob moved towards their location" so they moved to a safer place. "The CBP agents identified themselves and were wearing CBP insignia during the encounter. The names of the agents were not displayed due to recent doxing incidents against law enforcement personnel who serve and protect our country."

U.S. Attorney Billy J. Williams, the Department of Justice's chief law enforcement official in Oregon, on Friday called for an inspector general investigation into DHS personnel over reports of two protesters being detained without probable cause.

"What is happening now in Portland should concern everyone in the United States. Usually when we see people in unmarked cars forcibly grab someone off the street we call it kidnapping," said Jann Carson, interim executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union of Oregon, in a written statement. "The actions of the militarized federal officers are flat-out unconstitutional and will not go unanswered."

A judge has allowed the ACLU to add federal agencies to its lawsuit seeking to limit what law enforcement can do during the protests.

Federal officers have charged at least 13 people with crimes related to the protests so far, while others have been arrested and released, including Pettibone. They also left one demonstrator hospitalized with skull fractures after shooting him in the face with "less lethal" munitions on Saturday, according to video and local reports.

"This is a whole lot of nothing"

Interviews conducted by Oregon Public Broadcasting show officers are detaining people on Portland streets who aren't near federal property. Demonstrators such as O'Shea and Pettibone said they think they were targeted by federal officers for simply wearing black clothing in the area of the demonstration.

O'Shea said he ran when he saw people wearing camouflage jump out of an unmarked vehicle. He said he hid when a second unmarked van pursued him.

Video shot by O'Shea and provided to OPB shows a dark screen as O'Shea narrates the scene. Metadata from the video confirm the time and place of the protesters' account.

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"Feds are driving around, grabbing people off the streets," O'Shea said on the video. "I didn't do anything f*****g wrong. I'm recording this. I had to let somebody know that this is what happens."

Pettibone did not escape the federal officers.

"I am basically tossed into the van," Pettibone said. "And I had my beanie pulled over my face so I couldn't see, and they held my hands over my head."

Pettibone and O'Shea both said they couldn't think of anything they might have done to end up targeted by law enforcement. They attend protests regularly, but they said they aren't "instigators." They don't spray-paint buildings, shine laser pointers at officers or do anything else other than attend protests, which law enforcement have regularly deemed "unlawful assemblies."

Blinded by his hat, in an unmarked minivan full of armed people dressed in camouflage and body armor who hadn't identified themselves, Pettibone said he was driven around downtown before being unloaded inside a building. He wouldn't learn until after his release that he had been inside the federal courthouse.

"It was basically a process of facing many walls and corners as they patted me down and took my picture and rummaged through my belongings," Pettibone said. "One of them said, 'This is a whole lot of nothing.' "

Pettibone said he was put into a cell. Soon after, two officers came in to read him his Miranda rights. They didn't tell him why he was being arrested. He said they asked him if he wanted to waive his rights and answer some questions, but Pettibone declined and said he wanted a lawyer. The interview was terminated, and about 90 minutes later he was released. He said he did not receive any paperwork, citation or record of his arrest.

"I just happened to be wearing black on a sidewalk in downtown Portland at the time," Pettibone said. "And that apparently is grounds for detaining me."


Graffiti from recent demonstrations covers an area outside the Mark O. Hatfield Federal Courthouse in Portland on July 8. Protesters are facing off against the Portland police as well as a group of federal agents.
Gillian Flaccus/AP
OPB sent DHS an extensive list of questions about Pettibone's arrest including: What is the legal justification for making arrests away from federal property? What is the legal justification for searching people who are not participating in criminal activity? Why are federal officers using civilian vehicles and taking people away in them? Are the arrests federal officers make legal under the Constitution? If so, how?

The DHS spokesperson didn't acknowledge the questions.

"It's like stop and frisk meets Guantanamo Bay," said attorney Juan Chavez, director of the civil rights project at the Oregon Justice Resource Center.

Chavez has worked on litigation surrounding the weeks of protests and helped lead efforts to curb local police from using tear gas and munitions on protesters. He called the arrest by federal officers "terrifying."

"You have laws regarding probable cause that can lead to arrests," he said. "It sounds more like abduction. It sounds like they're kidnapping people off the streets."

Ashlee Albies, a civil rights attorney with the National Lawyers Guild, said Pettibone's detention is an example of intimidation by federal law enforcement, and noted that people have a First Amendment right to demonstrate. She also said law enforcement officials have to follow procedures when they detain someone.

"I would be surprised to see that pulling up in an unmarked van, grabbing people off the street is an acceptable policy for a criminal investigation," Albies said.

''We're going to do what needs to be done''

In a letter released Thursday, Wolf, the acting DHS secretary, said, "Portland has been under siege for 47 straight days by a violent mob while local political leaders refuse to restore order to protect their city."

"A federal courthouse is a symbol of justice," Wolf wrote, denigrating protests against racism in the U.S. criminal justice system as an angry mob. "To attack it is to attack America."

This week, Trump has repeatedly spoken about what he calls lawlessness in the city. He praised the role of federal law enforcement officers in Portland and alluded to increasing their presence in cities nationwide. Speaking to Fox News on Thursday, acting Customs and Border Protection Commissioner Mark Morgan called the protesters criminals.

"I don't want to get ahead of the president and his announcement," Morgan said, "but the Department of Justice is going to be involved in this, DHS is going to be involved in this, and we're really going to take a stand across the board. And we're going to do what needs to be done to protect the men and women of this country."

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Early Thursday morning, Portland police tried a new approach to stop the protests. Officers cleared two nearby parks, Lownsdale and Chapman squares, including Riot Ribs, a barbecue stand that had been cooking free food since July Fourth. The city said it was closing the parks for maintenance. By early afternoon, fences had been installed around both parks.

Police arrested nine people during the closure, including three of the people who ran Riot Ribs. They face a variety of charges, including trespassing and disorderly conduct.

Mayor Ted Wheeler's office declined to comment on the latest events involving federal officers but reiterated a statement from earlier this week, saying federal officers should be restricted to guarding federal property.

"We do not need or want their help," Wheeler said. "The best thing they can do is stay inside their building, or leave Portland altogether."

Democratic Sen. Jeff Merkley of Oregon said if Wolf's visit to Portland was to inflame the situation so the president can "look tough," the acting DHS leader should leave.

"Federal forces shot an unarmed protester in the face," Merkley said in a tweet. "These shadowy forces have been escalating, not preventing, violence."

Oregon Gov. Kate Brown similarly called for federal law enforcement officers to leave Portland. She added that Wolf is on a "mission to provoke confrontation for political purposes."

"This political theater from President Trump has nothing to do with public safety," Brown said in a statement. "The president is failing to lead this nation. Now he is deploying federal officers to patrol the streets of Portland in a blatant abuse of power by the federal government."
Well, there it is...
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Re: Conflict erupts at Minneapolis, L.A. protests over George Floyd death

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And people thought we had "Trump Derangement Syndrome" when we said he is a fascist.
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Re: Conflict erupts at Minneapolis, L.A. protests over George Floyd death

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Well, anyone who thought that the media was done with this story and it was just going to fade away was mistaken, if only because Trump can't avoid escalating a crisis even when it would be to his advantage to do so. Thanks to him pulling a Pinochet in Portland (and announcing plans to do so in numerous other heavily Democratic cities), there are more protesters in Portland (including groups who say they are there to protect their fellow protesters from the Feds), and CNN appears to be covering it extensively.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

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Re: Conflict erupts at Minneapolis, L.A. protests over George Floyd death

Post by MKSheppard »

mr friendly guy wrote: 2020-07-17 09:21pmUnlike the others, I will bite.
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If we assume your $136.50 extra, assume pay is biweekly and assume the cop gets 4 weeks leave per year.
You won't get all $136.50, due to the way taxes apply.

If there was actually justice in the world and the Democrats were really about the "working man", they'd push to have payroll/social security/etc taxes and such NOT apply on Overtime.

But the Democrats aren't really about the working man, they just use them for soundbytes.

I can't provide precise numbers on typical OT tax bites since we went to online only paystubs years ago (ostensibly to be environmentally friendly, but I bet it was to save the $0.10 each employee every 2 weeks)

But a good rule of thumb is you'll lose about 30-40% of your income before you ever see it. That leaves you with about only $95.50.
So if they do one of these arrests every pay period (2 weeks) that will mean OT for 24 pay periods in a year. That comes out to $3276 extra. Since you consider $1872 a "REAL money maker" then I don't see how this higher figure of $3276 isn't also a good money maker for the cop. And they only need to do this once every pay period (2 weeks) and that wouldn't affect their social life that much since its spread out.
My reduced figure of $95.50 post-tax times 24 pay periods = $2,292 extra.

As for Since you consider $1872 a "REAL money maker" -- that's when it comes to you all at once in one big chunk, instead of having to slowly build up every two weeks.

The thing is, while there are bad cops who will do "collars for dollars":

NYPD Detective likes to gig people for fake DUI arrests

Doing so is exceptionally stupid -- especially for something as easily proveable as a DUI -- all it takes is someone only slightly more intelligent than a turnip to demand a blood draw right then and there -- or if the cop refuses to have the blood draw done -- have it done immediately after you bond out of the jail for your DUI arrest, because it takes about 24 hours for the body to eliminate alcohol completely, because metabolites and such will linger in your system, and you can determine how much you've been drinking by the amount of metabolites in your blood.

As a cop, your continued employment is contigent on you maintaining the public trust -- if you're found to have done false arrests purposely for a few extra dollars of spending money, you're done -- you're of no use to the department, as all prior cases you're involved in, or given testimony in are now suspect -- and furthermore..at best, only the shittiest, most desperate police departments will hire you after you get fired.

At worst, you'll be reduced to being an unarmed private contractor security guard making $8.50 an hour guarding a nightclub.

Cops of average intelligence in the Baltimore PD will do a cost-benefit analysis of:

"Bust people falsely to pad overtime:

Upsides: I get maybe $2000 extra, tops a year.

Downsides: I can be fired from my $58,000 average income job at Baltimore PD, and the best I can make as an unarmed security guard is $32,600 a year; and I won't be able to apply for a cushy $71,800/year job at a Suburban Maryland Police Department (Montgomery County); or even jump into a federal job as an ATF agent ($61,600).

But goddamn it; I need extra money to pay for my motorcycle/boat/camper note, or for Timmy's Braces. How do i get overtime?

Well, there's two ways:

Volunteer for special details -- when they do marathons or events, you can volunteer -- get paid to just stand around or sit around, with virtually zero odds of having to arrest someone.

Granted, some events are bad -- the NYPD has to "voluntold" officers each year to fill out the details for the annual Jamaician festivals, since they're total shitshows, arrests galore.

Volunteer for Contract Details -- This is more of an option for suburban departments. Basically, lots of places like synagogues, etc will pay the department for contract protection, and officers at the end of their watches basically roll out of the precinct straight to the contract site in their issued squad car, wearing their issued uniform, and basically sit around and watch the kids or congregation, and then go home.

This is why my "BS" flag goes up when public defenders start to spin these tall tales.
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