Gingers Hold Their Own Pride March

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Gingers Hold Their Own Pride March

Postby Zaune » 2013-08-12 07:41am

Press Association via Yahoo UK

More than a hundred redheads have taken part in the UK's first Ginger Pride march.

A parade led by Canadian comic Shawn Hitchins wound through Edinburgh city centre to demonstrate against ''gingerism'' - described as prejudice or discrimination against people with red hair.

The march created an "amazing" atmosphere as it made its way from the Balmoral Hotel on Princes Street across North Bridge to the city's Royal Mile, Mr Hitchins said.

"Everyone was cheering and we definitely let everyone know that it gets redder," he said.

"I just want to thank all my fellow gingers who took the time attend today's inaugural Ginger Pride event.

"I believe we truly sent a message to the world of how proud we are to be ginger. It was a special moment for gingers everywhere. All hail the red, orange and pale."

Marchers held aloft signs carrying messages such as ''For the love of ginger'', ''All hail! The red, orange and pale'' as well as ''Ginger and proud''.

Mr Hitchins is also performing a show inspired by his hair colour called Ginger Nation at this year's Edinburgh PBH's Free Fringe.


And yes, gingerism is a thing that happens.
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Replace "ginger" with "n*gger," and suddenly it become a lot less funny, doesn't it?
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Re: Gingers Hold Their Own Pride March

Postby Wicked Pilot » 2013-08-12 07:58am

I had a ginger on my crew last deployment and we'd give him so much shit. For example when pulling up the flight line checkpoint, we'd tell the guard "twelve souls and one ginger, all secure".
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Re: Gingers Hold Their Own Pride March

Postby Spoonist » 2013-08-12 08:18am

Wicked Pilot wrote:I had a ginger on my crew last deployment and we'd give him so much shit. For example when pulling up the flight line checkpoint, we'd tell the guard "twelve souls and one ginger, all secure".

Why?
And why would you remenisce about it here?
Why do so many american military personnel think that ribbings are a great way to bring camraderie when all evidence is to the contrary?

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Re: Gingers Hold Their Own Pride March

Postby FaxModem1 » 2013-08-12 08:44am

I have never understood the dislike of those with red hair. Though, I am a bit biased, as I find redheads rather attractive.
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Re: Gingers Hold Their Own Pride March

Postby fgalkin » 2013-08-12 09:07am

Replace "ginger" with "n*gger," and suddenly it become a lot less funny, doesn't it?

Have a very nice day.
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Re: Gingers Hold Their Own Pride March

Postby Zaune » 2013-08-12 09:14am

fgalkin wrote:Replace "ginger" with "n*gger," and suddenly it become a lot less funny, doesn't it?

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

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Replace "ginger" with "n*gger," and suddenly it become a lot less funny, doesn't it?
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Re: Gingers Hold Their Own Pride March

Postby Lagmonster » 2013-08-12 09:38am

Spoonist wrote:
Wicked Pilot wrote:I had a ginger on my crew last deployment and we'd give him so much shit. For example when pulling up the flight line checkpoint, we'd tell the guard "twelve souls and one ginger, all secure".

Why?
And why would you remenisce about it here?
Why do so many american military personnel think that ribbings are a great way to bring camraderie when all evidence is to the contrary?

I've heard the argument - and I'm not here to either defend or deconstruct it - that military hazing is a way of trust building between males. The idea being that you push your peers - the men you rely on to not abandon you while under extreme, life-threatening duress, and who will possibly kill or die on your behalf - so that your pack can separate those who will stick with you and hold together under stress, from the washouts who will crack when the real hardships begin.
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Re: Gingers Hold Their Own Pride March

Postby Thanas » 2013-08-12 09:39am

^Light hazing happens everywhere with newcomers to established groups. Used properly, it can build trust and acceptance. Used improperly and you get shitbags abusing others.
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Gingers are awesome.

They are also soulless bastards.

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Re: Gingers Hold Their Own Pride March

Postby Dominus Atheos » 2013-08-12 10:11am

FYI, in the US calling redheads "gingers" is just a funny reference to an episode of South Park.

In the UK, "ginger" is a vile racial slur, especially against the Irish.

I suspect Wicked Pilot and our british members might not have known that.
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Re: Gingers Hold Their Own Pride March

Postby Patroklos » 2013-08-12 10:16am

That might be how most of the US got introduced to the term, that is not how most people use it nor is that how it is recieved.

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Re: Gingers Hold Their Own Pride March

Postby Ralin » 2013-08-12 10:46am

Patroklos wrote:That might be how most of the US got introduced to the term, that is not how most people use it nor is that how it is recieved.


I'd only known the South Park reference and had no idea about the rest. I'd always thought ginger hate was an ironic meme thing.

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Re: Gingers Hold Their Own Pride March

Postby Dominus Atheos » 2013-08-12 10:57am

For the vast majority of America, it is. Patroklos doesn't know what he's talking about.
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Re: Gingers Hold Their Own Pride March

Postby Patroklos » 2013-08-12 11:43am

Do you have red hair? If not please STFU. It maybe considered friendly banter amongst friends like any number of insults, that does not mean just because many will simply smile and shrug it off instead of causing a scene out of embarrasement constitutes an endorsment of its use. If someone were to import the a uniqely British term equivalent to "fag" would you happily endorse its use since its only being done for shits and giggles? Do you go around work telling stupid blonde jokes?

Its spiteful and hurtful, especially amongst children where it is a horrendous bullying tool exactly because douches like you attempt to normalize it and nobody has any choice but to take it or make a scene that other douches like you will call an overreaction.

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Re: Gingers Hold Their Own Pride March

Postby Spekio » 2013-08-12 12:32pm

Patroklos wrote:Do you have red hair? If not please STFU.


Oh fallacy.

It maybe considered friendly banter amongst friends like any number of insults, that does not mean just because many will simply smile and shrug it off instead of causing a scene out of embarrasement constitutes an endorsment of its use.


Sure. But not all people are offended, as you are implying.

If someone were to import the a uniqely British term equivalent to "fag" would you happily endorse its use since its only being done for shits and giggles? Do you go around work telling stupid blonde jokes?


People do it all the time. Have you heard of American Otaku? Or even the Verga Phone Venezuela developed?

The word has the connotations the culture they are inserted gives them. If I'm not mistaken, while is a mild insult in the US, the term "Bloody" is (or was) a more serious insult in Britain.

Its spiteful and hurtful, especially amongst children where it is a horrendous bullying tool exactly because douches like you attempt to normalize it and nobody has any choice but to take it or make a scene that other douches like you will call an overreaction.


Everything is a bullying tool in the hands of children. I'm sure a bullyed kid in the US, when called ginger, does not care that is a seriously offensive term in England, but because South Park said gingers do not have souls.

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Re: Gingers Hold Their Own Pride March

Postby Patroklos » 2013-08-12 12:55pm

Spekio wrote:
Patroklos wrote:Do you have red hair? If not please STFU.


Oh fallacy.


Whats your next trick, deciding “niger” isn't offensive via a panel of white people?

Sure. But not all people are offended, as you are implying.


I did no such thing, I noted the ridiculousness of a non redhead (perhaps) declaring it was not insulting. What group of anything is uniformly offended by a word? Does that mean none of them are offensive?

People do it all the time. Have you heard of American Otaku? Or even the Verga Phone Venezuela developed?


Does either of those refer to a term used directly against a group of people in those countries introduced? Was either of them introduced via a media that was specifically intended to be insulting (the South Park Episode)?

The word has the connotations the culture they are inserted gives them. If I'm not mistaken, while is a mild insult in the US, the term "Bloody" is (or was) a more serious insult in Britain.


Bloody is not specific to any group of people.

Everything is a bullying tool in the hands of children. I'm sure a bullyed kid in the US, when called ginger, does not care that is a seriously offensive term in England, but because South Park said gingers do not have souls.


Obviously some material is more apt than others. You have to be blind not to see the abuse this particular instance is prone to.

And you just proved my point. It was never introduced to the US devoid of its insulting meaning. It was specifically introduced to show a historically bigoted and insulting person being bigoted and insulting. If it is divorced from its English meaning, which it is not, it still started out here along the same lines.

So you are adopting the language of a bigot to use indiscriminatly. Congratulations?

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Re: Gingers Hold Their Own Pride March

Postby Spekio » 2013-08-12 01:28pm

Patroklos wrote:
Whats your next trick, deciding “niger” isn't offensive via a panel of white people?


Oh, do I have to be black to understand that "nigger" is offensive? I'm not homossexual, but I understand that "faggot" is. Mind you, I'm not stating that ginger is or isn't offensive, I'm attacking your statements.

For instance, black face wasn't a problem in my country. One famous (and recently deceased) comic here had a black character he played in black face in the late eighthies. Yet I'm not oblivious to the unfortunate implications it would carry to an US' audience.

I did no such thing, I noted the ridiculousness of a non redhead (perhaps) declaring it was not insulting. What group of anything is uniformly offended by a word? Does that mean none of them are offensive?


On the other hand, If a small, yet vocal, part of a group of people find it offensive, is it so? Is "retarded" offensive?

We have cases of people being offended by "Black Hole", I kid you not.

Does either of those refer to a term used directly against a group of people in those countries introduced? Was either of them introduced via a media that was specifically intended to be insulting (the South Park Episode)?


Otaku is a derision term in japanese, yet many foreing fan of anime and manga self-identify as such. Verga means penis in many areas of the spanish world, yet not in Venezuela.

Bloody is not specific to any group of people.


One theory on the origin of the term is that it derives from the phrase by Our Lady, a sacrilegious invocation of the Virgin Mary. Catholics offended.


Obviously some material is more apt than others. You have to be blind not to see the abuse this particular instance is prone to.


Gay is apt material. Yet people don't say "the G-word".

And you just proved my point. It was never introduced to the US devoid of its insulting meaning. It was specifically introduced to show a historically bigoted and insulting person being bigoted and insulting. If it is divorced from its English meaning, which it is not, it still started out here along the same lines.

So you are adopting the language of a bigot to use indiscriminatly. Congratulations?


It is insulting, perhaps, but not in the same way it is insulting in the UK. South Park had to add gingers did not have souls. By itself the word was just another way to say redhead.

And fallacy again. Not from the US (or an english speaking country).

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Re: Gingers Hold Their Own Pride March

Postby Teebs » 2013-08-12 02:28pm

Dominus Atheos wrote:FYI, in the US calling redheads "gingers" is just a funny reference to an episode of South Park.

In the UK, "ginger" is a vile racial slur, especially against the Irish.

I suspect Wicked Pilot and our british members might not have known that.


I've never heard of ginger being a racial slur... I don't mock people for being ginger because it's distasteful victimisation of a group that seems to go on in this country, but I am very sceptical that it would even occur to your average British person that it has anything to do with being Irish.

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Re: Gingers Hold Their Own Pride March

Postby Zaune » 2013-08-12 02:35pm

It doesn't, not consciously. It's just that people are dimly aware that being ginger means you're not "ethnically British" and are therefore fair game for all the verbal and physical abuse they feel like throwing around along with the French, the Germans, the Italians and... well, pretty much everyone, really. It's quite egalitarian, in a twisted sort of way.
There are hardly any excesses of the most crazed psychopath that cannot easily be duplicated by a normal kindly family man who just comes in to work every day and has a job to do.
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Replace "ginger" with "n*gger," and suddenly it become a lot less funny, doesn't it?
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Re: Gingers Hold Their Own Pride March

Postby Teebs » 2013-08-12 02:46pm

Zaune wrote:It doesn't, not consciously. It's just that people are dimly aware that being ginger means you're not "ethnically British" and are therefore fair game for all the verbal and physical abuse they feel like throwing around along with the French, the Germans, the Italians and... well, pretty much everyone, really. It's quite egalitarian, in a twisted sort of way.


I'm still sceptical even of that. Just my experience, butt still wouldn't occur to me that ginger means not British. Every ginger person I know is British, except one German IIRC. Ginger British people are hardly uncommon.

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Re: Gingers Hold Their Own Pride March

Postby Grandmaster Jogurt » 2013-08-12 03:52pm

Spekio wrote:On the other hand, If a small, yet vocal, part of a group of people find it offensive, is it so? Is "retarded" offensive?

Yes.

Or, to be more accurate, it's problematic, harmful, and ableist. But "offensive" is the usual term people use for language of that sort.

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Re: Gingers Hold Their Own Pride March

Postby Dartzap » 2013-08-12 04:21pm

Teebs wrote:
Dominus Atheos wrote:FYI, in the US calling redheads "gingers" is just a funny reference to an episode of South Park.

In the UK, "ginger" is a vile racial slur, especially against the Irish.

I suspect Wicked Pilot and our british members might not have known that.


I've never heard of ginger being a racial slur... I don't mock people for being ginger because it's distasteful victimisation of a group that seems to go on in this country, but I am very sceptical that it would even occur to your average British person that it has anything to do with being Irish.


DA, where on earth did you get that from? I have to agree on never having heard 'ginger' being used in a racist context over here. Just to be sure, I'll check in with a mate of mine from Dublin, see if he has heard such a thing. :?

The amount of bollocks one reads on here about the UK......
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Re: Gingers Hold Their Own Pride March

Postby Iroscato » 2013-08-12 04:33pm

Dartzap wrote:
Teebs wrote:
Dominus Atheos wrote:FYI, in the US calling redheads "gingers" is just a funny reference to an episode of South Park.

In the UK, "ginger" is a vile racial slur, especially against the Irish.

I suspect Wicked Pilot and our british members might not have known that.


I've never heard of ginger being a racial slur... I don't mock people for being ginger because it's distasteful victimisation of a group that seems to go on in this country, but I am very sceptical that it would even occur to your average British person that it has anything to do with being Irish.


DA, where on earth did you get that from? I have to agree on never having heard 'ginger' being used in a racist context over here. Just to be sure, I'll check in with a mate of mine from Dublin, see if he has heard such a thing. :?

The amount of bollocks one reads on here about the UK......

Quite. Discrimination against Gingers seems to be one of the few remaining 'acceptable' forms of bigotry in the UK, along with hatin' on the travellers/gypsies. But I've never heard of it being used as a slur against the Irish. We have a whole other set of insults for them :lol:
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Re: Gingers Hold Their Own Pride March

Postby Alyeska » 2013-08-12 04:36pm

Patroklos wrote:Do you have red hair? If not please STFU.


Yes, I do have Red Hair. You can kindly Fuck Off.
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Re: Gingers Hold Their Own Pride March

Postby Zaune » 2013-08-12 04:46pm

Teebs wrote:I'm still sceptical even of that. Just my experience, butt still wouldn't occur to me that ginger means not British. Every ginger person I know is British, except one German IIRC. Ginger British people are hardly uncommon.

I think it only really affects the sort of person who can use the phrase "ethnically British" with a straight face.

You know, complete and utter wankers.
There are hardly any excesses of the most crazed psychopath that cannot easily be duplicated by a normal kindly family man who just comes in to work every day and has a job to do.
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Replace "ginger" with "n*gger," and suddenly it become a lot less funny, doesn't it?
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Re: Gingers Hold Their Own Pride March

Postby Dartzap » 2013-08-12 05:11pm

Thinking back to my schools days, down 'ere near the Celtic Fringe, I seem to recall that none of the Irish/Scots/Welsh were ginger, it was all pasty faced buggers from the Home Counties.
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