Progressives and the Ron Paul fallacies

[Ralin]

It's not that he doesn't hold horrible views. It's that I'm relatively sure he wouldn't be able to do things like ban abortion as president. Whereas Obama has demonstrated that he's more than capable of implementing the horrible views he has.

[bobalot]

It's not that he doesn't hold horrible views. It's that I'm relatively sure he wouldn't be able to do things like ban abortion as president. Whereas Obama has demonstrated that he's more than capable of implementing the horrible views he has.

Don't fucking bullshit us. Did you miss how much damage George Bush the dumber did to the country? What makes you think that Ron Paul wouldn't implement half of this nutjob ideas? Some of these retarded ideas have widespread support within the Republican party.

All he would have to do is pass his Bill which would constrain the Supreme Court from over riding regressive laws passed by the States under the guise of "States Rights" and many Atheists, Homosexuals and Women would be completely fucked.

[bobalot]

What I find really funny is that people defending Ron Paul's viability as a candidate try to have it both ways.

They claim that Ron Paul's more retarded ideas will never be implemented while claiming at the same time he will change America for the better.

[Ralin]

Don't fucking bullshit us. Did you miss how much damage George Bush the dumber did to the country? What makes you think that Ron Paul wouldn't implement half of this nutjob ideas? Some of these retarded ideas have widespread support within the Republican party.

All he would have to do is pass his Bill which would constrain the Supreme Court from over riding regressive laws passed by the States under the guise of "States Rights" and many Atheists, Homosexuals and Women would be completely fucked.

Christian President George W Bush wasn't able to ban abortion. What makes you think that Ron Paul would be able to? I don't like libertarianism, but if he seriously tried to do things like end Social Security there'd be fucking riots. But as president he could end the war and prevent any other ones.

[Zaune]

How many people would you be willing to sacrifice for those things you treasure so dearly...?

Maybe we should have some sort of side-by-side comparison and see how many people (current US legal definition of "person") worldwide would be likely to die between 2012 and 2016 as a consequence of each Presidential candidate's manifesto. Then we could compare them to the number of people President Obama's decisions in office have killed since 2008. The end result would be at least 50% educated guesswork, but it might at least be a start.

We could also take a shot at figuring out how many people would not die as a consequence, I suppose, but that would be virtually 100% educated guesswork and a rather depressing number into the bargain.

[bobalot]

Christian President George W Bush wasn't able to ban abortion.

Ron Paul doesn't have to (Despite trying via a bill). He could simply go through with his Bill to allow the states to ban Abortion, shit all over atheists and discriminate against homosexuals by constraining the ability of the Supreme Court to override the States. You also have conveniently not noticed that the Republicans control the house and are not that far from having a majority in the senate. This is all George Bush needed to push his schemes through. On top of all that, the current batch of Republicans are considerably more radical and right-wing.

What makes you think that Ron Paul would be able to?

Because the Republican party (You know the party that controls the house) wants to?

While it would take a congressional order to abolish the numerous agencies he wants to get rid of. He could seriously cripple agencies like FEMA (Like George Bush the dumber), EPA and FDA by making them as small and infective as possible.

I don't like libertarianism but if he seriously tried to do things like end Social Security there'd be fucking riots.

Really? Why? The Republican party almost caused another great depression almost defaulting on America's debts and the generally public did absolutely jack shit. Here's a question for you. Faced with another debt ceiling crisis, would Ron Paul allow a default on America's public debts?

But as president he could end the war and prevent any other ones.

The war in Iraq is in the process of being wound down, and it doesn't appear that Obama is looking to start another trillion dollar military disaster. So I'm not sure how this upside outweighs the potential impact of Ron Paul's domestic policies.

[Zablorg]

I'd just like to pop in here and say what an utterly uncomprehendable position Nit's has turned out to be. Never in my fucking life have I heard suggested even on the internet that civil rights were more important than preventing war. The two ideas, that Nit cares about other people enough to support their rights, and simultaneously cool with war by comparison, are like... pushing magnets together. No matter how hard I try to reconcile them, they just shoot right back away from each other.

They are shooting away from each other so forcefully in my brain that they are actually ripping my skull apart.

So before I black out I'd just like to ask; does Nit actually think that people being oppressed is worse than people being killed?

Does Nit support his own moral principles or just the Obama administration in general?

wait shit that's not a qu

[Ryan Thunder]

What's your opinion on the American Civil War, then? I suppose the North should've just left the South alone in your opinion?

[Zablorg]

I will be the first to admit I don't know much about the political intricacies of the civil war, but I am almost positive that waging war right now is not actually going to bring about equality within America in any direct sort of way.

Also I'd guess that the people we're talking about aren't going through anything quite as bad as slavery, so there's that.

[Shroom Man 777]

I think that the government shooting people in the face with a JDAM or bombing people with M-16s is worse than the government disallowing some people to marry, and I think shrapnel emissions are much more serious than carbon emissions, and such. These things are all bad, yes, and I can get that people feel strongly about a lot of these issues. Which is a good thing, because if a guy's organs were scattered to pieces thanks to a JDAMRAAM landing right in the middle of the street, I bet he or she wouldn't be feeling strongly about lots of things right then.

[Flagg]

I think that the government shooting people in the face with a JDAM or bombing people with M-16s is worse than the government disallowing some people to marry, and I think shrapnel emissions are much more serious than carbon emissions, and such. These things are all bad, yes, and I can get that people feel strongly about a lot of these issues. Which is a good thing, because if a guy's organs were scattered to pieces thanks to a JDAMRAAM landing right in the middle of the street, I bet he or she wouldn't be feeling strongly about lots of things right then.

Considering the human suffering and death brought about by future wars, droughts, famines, and water shortages thanks to global warming, I'd think carbon emissions are a bit more important than some terrorist getting blown up by a drone.

[Shroom Man 777]

That's very indirect though. "Not getting/getting into wars that kill thousands of your countrymen and murder hundreds of thousands, possibly millions, of other people from those countries" is far more direct and achievable in a four year term or an eight year two-term.

Anyway, yes this can be argued with and haggled and debated with paragraphs worth of text blocks interspaced with paragraphs worth of text blocks in quote boxes, but all I'm saying is "do not want countless peoples killfucked" is the gist of the no-war guise, and it's not a very bad gist.

[Julhelm]

I think Nitram was talking about christian terrorists who bomb abortion clinics.

[MKSheppard]

Link to PDF scan of a Ron Paul 1995 newsletter

DID YOU KNOW that yetis are REAL human-alien hybrids created in a laboratory by the US government?

DID YOU KNOW that the CIA has hidden secret monitoring equipment in everyday objects in every one of our homes? Your wife's bra may contain a transmitter wire RIGHT NOW!

DID YOU KNOW that the chemicals added to your drinking water are intended to enslave and control you? And also ATTRACT YETIS?

Dear Fellow American:

You may not have much time left.

Next year, or next month, the New Money could wipe you out — destroy everything you’ve worked and saved for — and leave your family destitute.

It could happen any time. And I don’t mind telling you I’m scared. For myself, for my family, for my friends, for my country.

We’ve seen a lot of financial tyrannies from Washington in this century. This one could take the cake. And popping out of the cake, with a big Surprise!, will be an IRS agent with an AK-47.

Picture this: your feet are aching, your back is sore, and your patience ran out about two hours ago. How dare these bureaucrats treat you like this? How dare they make you wait in this line, this incredibly tedious line, to turn in your greenbacks? Then, when it’s finally your turn, it’s not so tedious after all.

An IRS agent with the dead eyes of a mako shark, asks — with that chilling police politeness — for your name, address, Social Security number, and “explanation.” From his tone and body language, you expect the Miranda warning next.

While muggers, robbers, and rapists run free on the streets, the power of the state is focused on you.

And no wonder. You’re a suspicious character. You’ve always kept some emergency cash. And now you’re in trouble. . . because you tried to take care of yourself and your family, because you saved and planned ahead.

When President Bush announced the New Money during a War-on-Drugs speech, few realized what it meant, or just how bad it would be — for innocent Americans, not drug dealers. Turning in all your old money for a new currency wasn’t so bad. They’d done it often enough in Latin America, after all.

But as someone with more cash than the secret federal ceiling allows, you’re treated like a possible drug dealer or a tax evader. Who else deals in cash?

You’re not arrested, though the tax man would obviously love to clap the cuffs on you right now. No, he just marks you down for the most horrifying ordeal at his disposal: the new SCA — Suspicious Cash Audit — and moves on to the next victim.

Months later, after the tax police have put you and every aspect of your life through the wringer, you’ll wish you’d used your old Federal Reserve Notes for wallpaper, or flushed them down the toilet.

It will be that bad. And it will only be the beginning.

But you don’t need to be a mark in this federal scam. You don’t have to be ripped-off. Won’t you let me send you my brand-new report, Surviving the New Money? It normally costs $50, but I want to hurry it to you, at absolutely no charge.

First the feds claimed the New Money was an anti-counterfeiting measure. But that lame excuse, in a time of dwindling counterfeiting (non-Fed, of course), went down the memory hole.

Now — when not pretending it doesn’t exist — they claim the New Money will nab money launderers and drug dealers. But just as before, they’re lying.

Not that they don’t pursue criminals, but we’re their real targets. The politicians and bureaucrats want to tax and control us to their hearts’ content — if they can he said to have hearts — and the New Money will make this possible.

Remember that money laundering — despite its evil ring — has nothing to do with taxation or drugs. It is the crime of using your own after-tax, honestly earned cash without filling out a government form. And tine banks are ordered by the Controller of the Currency to report customers who display the Orwellian infraction of “reluctance” at filling out a Treasury CTR (currency transaction report).

The feds see us as rats in a maze. And they want to own the maze. And the New Money is a key part of this scheme.

I uncovered the New Money plans during my last term in the U.S. Congress, and I held the ugly new bills in my hands. I can tell you — they made my skin crawl.

These totalitarian bills were tinted pink and blue and brown, and blighted with holograms, diffraction gratings, metal and plastic threads, and chemical alarms. It wasn’t money for a free people. It was a portable inquisition, a paper “third-degree,” to allow the feds to keep track of American cash, and American citizens.

As one federal scientist confirmed to me, these bills can be computer imprinted and read, to lay a paper trail hundreds of transactions long. Who uses them, when, and where. The taggents — chemical alarms — will set off federal cash-detection machines at airports and anyplace else they choose. And there are other swindles involved as well.

Thank goodness, a patriotic American within the Federal Reserve told me about this financial Manhattan Project. But this time, the government wants to drop the bomb on us.

To manufacture the New Money, the feds have built a colossal blockhouse in Ft. Worth, Texas, as ugly as it is evil. Designed in Stalin-style, guarded by KGB-level security, and full of three-color printing presses and spy device embedders, it belongs in Moscow, not Texas.

Stage One of the New Money — microprinting and a polyester thread — was meant to lull us to sleep, before the knife fell. But the bureaucrats’ scheme went awry when the old Bureau of Engraving and Printing plant in Washington, D.C., couldn’t handle the new technology.

They’ve fixed that now, and Stage Two will chill your blood.

The New Money will steal our freedom and our prosperity; it will accelerate the transfer wealth and power from the people to the government and its friends.

No wonder the Establishment is cheering. And ex-Treasury Secretary Don Regan is the head cheerleader. Regan, who was also White House chief of staff and president of Merrill Lynch, is the personification of special-interest government. When I fought him on the U.S. Gold Commission, he was as nasty a statist as I encountered in Washington. A man who hates hard money and our Constitution, and lusts after power.

How appropriate that they chose Regan as the front man for the most vicious currency switch possible, including a “National Finance Guard” to enforce the New Money and destroy our privacy. The Romanians get rid of Ceaucescu’s Securitate, and we get the cash police.

The government loves war because it can commandeer more power over the people, and the War on Drugs is no exception. The feds want to eliminate our privacy and our independence, so they can track and tax every dime we earn, save, and spend.

Drug Czar William Bennett says we have no right to privacy. Drug Hitlerite malarkey.

Justice Brandeis said the most important Constitutional right the founding Fathers gave us was the “right to be left alone.” He said it was the right most cherished by “civilized’ men and women.

You and I have the right to keep our intimate financial affairs private from a snoopy but harmless brother-in-law. How much more right do we have when it’s a power-mad bureaucrat who seeks to do us harm?

Americans have the right to be free. We are born free. And we must live free.

We have a duty to our country, to our families, and ourselves to preserve our liberty and our assets from the government wolves, and to bequeath our freedom and prosperity to generations yet to come.

Washington, D.C. — HUD, Barney Frank, the IRS, the whole bunch — is our declared enemy in this. But we have a model to follow.

The founding Fathers didn’t hesitate to pledge their lives, their fortunes, and their sacred honor to battle tyranny.

We don’t want to have to follow Thomas Jefferson’s advice, and have a revolution every once in awhile to toss out despotic government. And thanks to the remnants of the system he and the government of 1776 established, we don’t have to. We can battle for our freedom, and protect our savings, within the law.

Politicians and their big bank pals don’t like it. But when did free Americans ever let the pique of moral pygmies stop them?

Let me show you how to do all of this. Let me rush you my new $50 report on Surviving the New Money — absolutely free of charge — and each month mail you my Ron Paul Investment Letter and Ron Paul Political Report.

Dollars are held and used by people all over the world. It is the defacto currency in many hyperinflationary countries. What will happen to these dollars when the greenback is declared defunct? When I confronted a startled Treasury official about a world dollar panic brought on by the New Money, he said: “So what? People who hold large amounts of cash are drug dealers or tax evaders. Let them suffer!”

But we’ll suffer too. Such a panic could cause a depression here. But you can protect yourself, and those you love, from all of this.

In Surviving the New Money, I tell you all I have learned. What the feds plan to do and how. The effect on your investments, especially gold and silver. The chances for a ten-to-one revaluation or currency inflation. The trial-run in Hawaii. The holocaust of the underground economy. And how to protect yourself.

We can’t let those swindlers destroy our country. Please join with me in fighting them, for the sake of your finances and your freedom.

Thanks to Americans like you, I was able to work for our ideals for four terms as a U.S. Congressman. Inside the belly of the beast, I saw what these devils plan.

In office, I never joined the federal mafia. Out of office, I didn’t become a bandit lobbyist. Unlike most public officials, I never had one of those For-Sale-to-the-Special-Interests signs on my forehead.

I swore to uphold the Constitution and I took that oath seriously. That’s why I am free to share with you the knowledge, insights, and sources I developed.

While on Capitol Hill, I developed extraordinary sources in House and Senate committees, the White House, the Treasury, the Fed, the Justice Department, and even the IRS. These patriotic Americans won’t talk to the liberal media, but they do trust me. And they want you to know what’s really happening.

No matter what’s in the Constitution, Washington runs our economy. You can ignore that ugly fact. Or you can seek to neutralize it. What you do will determine the fate of the nest egg you have built — or hope to build.

The powerbrokers don’t want you to know about their plans, of course. It’s so much easier to shear the sheep if they don’t recognize the barber.

But you and I aren’t sheep, and we won’t stand still to be fleeced. That’s why I wrote Surviving the New Money. That’s why I publish the Ron Paul Investment Letter and the Ron Paul Political Report. To protect middle-class Americans and their savings from the federal shears.

Large investor or small, my newsletters will armor you against the politicians and the big banks. Each month I give you the facts and analysis — and specific recommendations — that you need to protect yourself, and dramatically increase your wealth, in the spastic economy of the 1990s.

Every American who has worked hard and saved — or who wants to — needs this guidance. And as the only former high official to publish a financial letter supply facts and analysis available nowhere else.

I have exposed the war on cash, and what it means for honest Americans. The little-known law, rushed through Congress, that lets the feds declare bank holidays nationwide, or just in your town, and freeze your accounts indefinitely. The “money laundering” laws that can wash away our freedoms. And the international bankers’ pipeline into your wallet.

I have unmasked the plot for world government, world money, and world central banking. Planned exchange controls to hold you hostage…while the dollar drops down a hole. High officials who are wholly owned subsidiaries of the Trilateral Commission and the Council on Foreign Relations. The FEMA plan to suspend the Constitution in a “national emergency.”

I revealed the Red debt bomb set to explode in your bank account. Schemes to force pension plans to “invest” in federal debt, with coerced rollovers and more debt in lieu of interest. The real, financial reasons Bush invaded Panama. The nightmare of a “cashless society” (watch out for it, if they get away with the New Money). And the Establishment assault on hard assets that will make us nostalgic for FDR.

I’ve been told not to talk, but these stooges don’t scare me. Threats or no threats, I’ve laid bare the coming race war in big cities. The federal-homosexual cover-up on AIDS (my training as a physician helps me see through this one.) The Bohemian Grove — perverted, pagan playground of the powerful. Skull & Bones: the demonic fraternity that includes George Bush and leftist Senator John Kerry, Congress’s Mr. New Honey. The Israeli lobby, which plays Congress like a cheap harmonica. And the Soviet-style “smartcard” the Justice Department has in mind for you.

Most important, I tell you how you can save yourself and your family, and help our country.

The politicians — and their Establishment buddies — won’t be happy until they own you lock, stock, and barrel. And you’ll be wearing the barrel. You must act now, or watch helplessly as they strip you bare.

The feds have taken all the old investment rules and thrown them out the window. We have to forget the old-fashioned methods. Or we’re sunk.

Those who act decisively — and have the right information to act on — will survive the New Money and big government’s other economic calamities. In fact, history shows that bad times offer the greatest profit opportunities.

A liberal clergyman sneered: “Isn’t it immoral to benefit from catastrophe?” I told him, “No, not if you didn’t cause it.” In fact, the few who preserve and even increase their wealth in the coming chaos will be needed to rebuild America.

That’s why I must send you Surviving the New Money, the Ron Paul Investment Letter, and the Ron Paul Political Report. I want to show you how to preserve — and enhance — your money, your privacy, and your freedom.

These remarkable publications armor you against the government and the Establishment. Each month I give you the trustworthy information, analysis, and recommendations you need to protect yourself, and increase your wealth, in the 1990s.

To the unthinking, everything may seem OK. But you and I know it isn’t. What’s a middle-class American to do?

Gold? Silver? Platinum? Rare coins? Real estate? Gemstones? Farm land? Penny stocks? A small business? Collectibles? T-bill? Mutual funds? CDs? Corporate bonds? Municipal bonds? Gold stocks? Common stocks? The futures market? Overseas banking? Foreign investments? Privacy and tax strategies?

Some investments will protect you. Others are like walking into the IRS and saying, “Take me; I’m yours.”

The bureaucracy is massive and powerful. But like a big, ugly dog, it is also slow and stupid. Our job: to avoid its lumbering paws and slobbering teeth. And I can help you do exactly that.

I fear there will be welfare riots in the big cities. Massive unemployment. The destruction of wealth. The erosion of personal liberties. Vicious economic controls. The exaltation of envy. The suppression of privacy. Authoritarian clamp-downs. Bank and S&L closings on a massive scale. A world dollar crisis as the greenback (or “pinkback”) is rejected for almost any non-paper alternative.

Maybe the “recovery,” which the politicians are always trumpeting, is permanent. Maybe Bush and company will give us the balanced budget, sound money, and drastic spending and tax cuts we need. Maybe they’ll curb the IRS and the Fed. Maybe lasting prosperity is around the corner. Maybe there’s a tooth fairy. But i don’t believe it.

Trouble is coming, and you must be prepared.

Surviving the New Money, the Ron Paul Investment Letter and the Ron Paul Political Report will be your survival kit, and if you act now, you can get this $224 value for just $99 — 55% off!

(Or increase your savings and protect yourself against price increases with a two-year subscription for $189 or a three-year subscription for $279.)

For just $99, get all this wealth-saving intelligence: 1) Surviving the New Money ($50); 2) The monthly Ron Paul Investment Letter ($99); 3) The monthly Ron Paul Political Report ($50); 4) The unlisted phone number of my Financial Hotline for fast-breaking news ($25); and 5) My manual for investors, The Ron Paul Primer. A $224 value for just $99!

And there is absolutely no risk.

If you ever feel the Ron Paul Investment Letter and the Ron Paul Political Report are not indispensable, let me know and I’ll send you a full pro-rata refund. And you can keep Surviving the New Money, my Hotline number, and my investors’ Primer with my compliments. You can’t lose.

Please, help me help you survive the New Money and other financial debacles. You must conic through not only unscathed, but richer.

Send your check today, or charge your order to American Express, Visa, or Mastercard (by mail or on my toll-free 800 number: 1-800-RON-PAUL). Let me welcome you as a subscriber.

Sincerely,

Congressman Ron Paul

P.S. Your subscription may be tax-deductible. See the enclosed subscription form for details.

P.P.S. There’s no time to waste. The New Money may not come until next year. Or it may be imposed tomorrow. You should subscribe today.

[Crossroads Inc.]

Ok, again while I want to stay out of this, lord knows I don't debate well...
I would really, really like somethign clarified...

I get the fact over the past 12 to 20 years America has fucked over and pissed on much of the rest of the world with worthless wars. I GET that.
I also get that Obama carried on many of Bush's more unsavory aspects and was unable to be the sainted angle many seem to make him out to be.
But..

The war in Iraq is effectivly over.
The war in Afghanistan is winding down.
The 'war' in Libya (which I know some freaked out about) never got a single boot on the ground and is done.
And as far as I know Obama has no murderous plans for raging ENDLESS WAR upon anyone else.
soo....

What the hell is the problem?
I keep hearing "Paul will end the wars! He'll not start new ones!"
Well... Obama is ending them (4years late I'll admit) and he doesn't seem bent on starting new ones...

So why should I support Ron Paul?

[Julhelm]

Because B. Hussein Obama is just waiting for an excuse to start a new war with Iran as an excuse to further militarize America domestically and bring into effect the north american union. And he's a Bilderberg puppet.

[MKSheppard]

I really hope people don't hold this against him or his ideas.

So you believe in the Federal-Homosexual conspiracy to hide the troof about AIDS, which only the brave RON PAUL sees through, thanks to his training as a physician?

And that for a low, low, low price of $99, you cab be protected against the Federal NEW MONEY assault to take away your freedoms?

Hmm...it's 2011; and we survived the onslaught of shittily colored dollar bills which look like someone threw up on them, and hurriedly wiped off the vomit, staining our greenbacks peach....HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE?

[MKSheppard]

Ah, a true Ronulan who believes in "Threats or no threats, I’ve laid bare the coming race war in big cities."

RACE WAR.

RAAAAAAAAAACE WAR.

[MKSheppard]

Linkapoo

Paul’s newsletters have carried different titles over the years--Ron Paul’s Freedom Report, Ron Paul Political Report, The Ron Paul Survival Report--but they generally seem to have been published on a monthly basis since at least 1978. (Paul, an OB-GYN and former U.S. Air Force surgeon, was first elected to Congress in 1976.) During some periods, the newsletters were published by the Foundation for Rational Economics and Education, a nonprofit Paul founded in 1976; at other times, they were published by Ron Paul & Associates, a now-defunct entity in which Paul owned a minority stake, according to his campaign spokesman. The Freedom Report claimed to have over 100,000 readers in 1984. At one point, Ron Paul & Associates also put out a monthly publication called The Ron Paul Investment Letter.

The Freedom Report’s online archives only go back to 1999, but I was curious to see older editions of Paul’s newsletters, in part because of a controversy dating to 1996, when Charles “Lefty” Morris, a Democrat running against Paul for a House seat, released excerpts stating that “opinion polls consistently show only about 5% of blacks have sensible political opinions,” that “if you have ever been robbed by a black teen-aged male, you know how unbelievably fleet-footed they can be,” and that black representative Barbara Jordan is “the archetypical half-educated victimologist” whose “race and sex protect her from criticism.” At the time, Paul’s campaign said that Morris had quoted the newsletter out of context. Later, in 2001, Paul would claim that someone else had written the controversial passages. (Few of the newsletters contain actual bylines.) Caldwell, writing in the Times Magazine last year, said he found Paul’s explanation believable, “since the style diverges widely from his own.”

Finding the pre-1999 newsletters was no easy task, but I was able to track many of them down at the libraries of the University of Kansas and the Wisconsin Historical Society. Of course, with few bylines, it is difficult to know whether any particular article was written by Paul himself. Some of the earlier newsletters are signed by him, though the vast majority of the editions I saw contain no bylines at all. Complicating matters, many of the unbylined newsletters were written in the first person, implying that Paul was the author.

But, whoever actually wrote them, the newsletters I saw all had one thing in common: They were published under a banner containing Paul’s name, and the articles (except for one special edition of a newsletter that contained the byline of another writer) seem designed to create the impression that they were written by him--and reflected his views. What they reveal are decades worth of obsession with conspiracies, sympathy for the right-wing militia movement, and deeply held bigotry against blacks, Jews, and gays. In short, they suggest that Ron Paul is not the plain-speaking antiwar activist his supporters believe they are backing--but rather a member in good standing of some of the oldest and ugliest traditions in American politics.

...

Take, for instance, a special issue of the Ron Paul Political Report, published in June 1992, dedicated to explaining the Los Angeles riots of that year. “Order was only restored in L.A. when it came time for the blacks to pick up their welfare checks three days after rioting began,” read one typical passage. According to the newsletter, the looting was a natural byproduct of government indulging the black community with “‘civil rights,’ quotas, mandated hiring preferences, set-asides for government contracts, gerrymandered voting districts, black bureaucracies, black mayors, black curricula in schools, black tv shows, black tv anchors, hate crime laws, and public humiliation for anyone who dares question the black agenda.” It also denounced “the media” for believing that “America’s number one need is an unlimited white checking account for underclass blacks.” To be fair, the newsletter did praise Asian merchants in Los Angeles, but only because they had the gumption to resist political correctness and fight back. Koreans were “the only people to act like real Americans,” it explained, “mainly because they have not yet been assimilated into our rotten liberal culture, which admonishes whites faced by raging blacks to lie back and think of England.”

...

This “Special Issue on Racial Terrorism” was hardly the first time one of Paul’s publications had raised these topics. As early as December 1989, a section of his Investment Letter, titled “What To Expect for the 1990s,” predicted that “Racial Violence Will Fill Our Cities” because “mostly black welfare recipients will feel justified in stealing from mostly white ‘haves.’” Two months later, a newsletter warned of “The Coming Race War,” and, in November 1990, an item advised readers, “If you live in a major city, and can leave, do so. If not, but you can have a rural retreat, for investment and refuge, buy it.” In June 1991, an entry on racial disturbances in Washington, DC’s Adams Morgan neighborhood was titled, “Animals Take Over the D.C. Zoo.” “This is only the first skirmish in the race war of the 1990s,” the newsletter predicted. In an October 1992 item about urban crime, the newsletter’s author--presumably Paul--wrote, “I’ve urged everyone in my family to know how to use a gun in self defense. For the animals are coming.” That same year, a newsletter described the aftermath of a basketball game in which “blacks poured into the streets of Chicago in celebration. How to celebrate? How else? They broke the windows of stores to loot.” The newsletter inveighed against liberals who “want to keep white America from taking action against black crime and welfare,” adding, “Jury verdicts, basketball games, and even music are enough to set off black rage, it seems.”

Such views on race also inflected the newsletters’ commentary on foreign affairs. South Africa’s transition to multiracial democracy was portrayed as a “destruction of civilization” that was “the most tragic [to] ever occur on that continent, at least below the Sahara”; and, in March 1994, a month before Nelson Mandela was elected president, one item warned of an impending “South African Holocaust.”

...

Martin Luther King Jr. earned special ire from Paul’s newsletters, which attacked the civil rights leader frequently, often to justify opposition to the federal holiday named after him. (“What an infamy Ronald Reagan approved it!” one newsletter complained in 1990. “We can thank him for our annual Hate Whitey Day.”) In the early 1990s, newsletters attacked the “X-Rated Martin Luther King” as a “world-class philanderer who beat up his paramours,” “seduced underage girls and boys,” and “made a pass at” fellow civil rights leader Ralph Abernathy. One newsletter ridiculed black activists who wanted to rename New York City after King, suggesting that “Welfaria,” “Zooville,” “Rapetown,” “Dirtburg,” and “Lazyopolis” were better alternatives. The same year, King was described as “a comsymp, if not an actual party member, and the man who replaced the evil of forced segregation with the evil of forced integration.”

...

While bashing King, the newsletters had kind words for the former Imperial Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan, David Duke. In a passage titled “The Duke’s Victory,” a newsletter celebrated Duke’s 44 percent showing in the 1990 Louisiana Senate primary. “Duke lost the election,” it said, “but he scared the blazes out of the Establishment.” In 1991, a newsletter asked, “Is David Duke’s new prominence, despite his losing the gubernatorial election, good for anti-big government forces?” The conclusion was that “our priority should be to take the anti-government, anti-tax, anti-crime, anti-welfare loafers, anti-race privilege, anti-foreign meddling message of Duke, and enclose it in a more consistent package of freedom.”

....

Like blacks, gays earn plenty of animus in Paul’s newsletters. They frequently quoted Paul’s “old colleague,” Representative William Dannemeyer--who advocated quarantining people with AIDS--praising him for “speak[ing] out fearlessly despite the organized power of the gay lobby.” In 1990, one newsletter mentioned a reporter from a gay magazine “who certainly had an axe to grind, and that’s not easy with a limp wrist.” In an item titled, “The Pink House?” the author of a newsletter--again, presumably Paul--complained about President George H.W. Bush’s decision to sign a hate crimes bill and invite “the heads of homosexual lobbying groups to the White House for the ceremony,” adding, “I miss the closet.” “Homosexuals,” it said, “not to speak of the rest of society, were far better off when social pressure forced them to hide their activities.” When Marvin Liebman, a founder of the conservative Young Americans for Freedom and a longtime political activist, announced that he was gay in the pages of National Review, a Paul newsletter implored, “Bring Back the Closet!” Surprisingly, one item expressed ambivalence about the contentious issue of gays in the military, but ultimately concluded, “Homosexuals, if admitted, should be put in a special category and not allowed in close physical contact with heterosexuals.”

The newsletters were particularly obsessed with AIDS, “a politically protected disease thanks to payola and the influence of the homosexual lobby,” and used it as a rhetorical club to beat gay people in general. In 1990, one newsletter approvingly quoted “a well-known Libertarian editor” as saying, “The ACT-UP slogan, on stickers plastered all over Manhattan, is ‘Silence = Death.’ But shouldn’t it be ‘Sodomy = Death’?” Readers were warned to avoid blood transfusions because gays were trying to “poison the blood supply.” “Am I the only one sick of hearing about the ‘rights’ of AIDS carriers?” a newsletter asked in 1990. That same year, citing a Christian-right fringe publication, an item suggested that “the AIDS patient” should not be allowed to eat in restaurants and that “AIDS can be transmitted by saliva,” which is false. Paul’s newsletters advertised a book, Surviving the AIDS Plague--also based upon the casual-transmission thesis--and defended “parents who worry about sending their healthy kids to school with AIDS victims.” Commenting on a rise in AIDS infections, one newsletter said that “gays in San Francisco do not obey the dictates of good sense,” adding: “[T]hese men don’t really see a reason to live past their fifties. They are not married, they have no children, and their lives are centered on new sexual partners.” Also, “they enjoy the attention and pity that comes with being sick.”

The rhetoric when it came to Jews was little better. The newsletters display an obsession with Israel; no other country is mentioned more often in the editions I saw, or with more vitriol. A 1987 issue of Paul’s Investment Letter called Israel “an aggressive, national socialist state,” and a 1990 newsletter discussed the “tens of thousands of well-placed friends of Israel in all countries who are willing to wok [sic] for the Mossad in their area of expertise.” Of the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, a newsletter said, “Whether it was a setup by the Israeli Mossad, as a Jewish friend of mine suspects, or was truly a retaliation by the Islamic fundamentalists, matters little.”

...

The newsletters are chock-full of shopworn conspiracies, reflecting Paul’s obsession with the “industrial-banking-political elite” and promoting his distrust of a federally regulated monetary system utilizing paper bills. They contain frequent and bristling references to the Bilderberg Group, the Trilateral Commission, and the Council on Foreign Relations--organizations that conspiracy theorists have long accused of seeking world domination. In 1978, a newsletter blamed David Rockefeller, the Trilateral Commission, and “fascist-oriented, international banking and business interests” for the Panama Canal Treaty, which it called “one of the saddest events in the history of the United States.” A 1988 newsletter cited a doctor who believed that AIDS was created in a World Health Organization laboratory in Fort Detrick, Maryland. In addition, Ron Paul & Associates sold a video about Waco produced by “patriotic Indiana lawyer Linda Thompson”--as one of the newsletters called her--who maintained that Waco was a conspiracy to kill ATF agents who had previously worked for President Clinton as bodyguards. As with many of the more outlandish theories the newsletters cited over the years, the video received a qualified endorsement: “I can’t vouch for every single judgment by the narrator, but the film does show the depths of government perfidy, and the national police’s tricks and crimes,” the newsletter said, adding, “Send your check for $24.95 to our Houston office, or charge the tape to your credit card at 1-800-RON-PAUL.”

Let's all listen to Destructinator, and vote for someone who promulgated the whackaloon theory that AIDS was created at Fort Detrick under evil United Nations World Health Organization supervision in a newsletter in his own god damned name and then years later when this comes out; claims he didn't know any of it?

Heh.

[MKSheppard]

Why should I? I'm revealing the truth about your beloved Ron Paul.

He's nothing but a scammer who for decades has been making money off the stupid and paranoid with his hysterical newsletters; which foretell coming race wars which.....don't happen.

IF ONLY AMERICA HAD CONSUMER PROTECTION LAWS, *I'm a smarmy asshole*

[Simon_Jester]

Christian President George W Bush wasn't able to ban abortion. What makes you think that Ron Paul would be able to? I don't like libertarianism, but if he seriously tried to do things like end Social Security there'd be fucking riots. But as president he could end the war and prevent any other ones.

Ralin, the president can do a lot of things within the executive branch without needing any outside power at all. He could, say, order federal agencies to do nothing.

With the support of a congressional majority capable of overriding Senate filibusters, he can do a lot more; when that happens, the only checks on his power are judicial review

The big limit on the damage Bush did is that Bush was willing to settle for less than "implement every plank of my platform." He was not willing to pay the political costs. He was a moderate by the standards of the modern Republican party... and if that scares you, it probably should. Ron Paul is more determined. I take him at his word; he will do more of what he wants, or self-destruct his presidency trying.

I think, when you try to pick a president, you should assume no checks on their power whatsoever. What would this man do if people let him run wild? It's a given that he'll try to get around the checks and balances, that he'll try to push through the things he really cares about doing (huge handouts to banks, abolishing judicial review, whatever). So the question is, what does he really want to do, and what would the consequences be?

Ron Paul is not my hero and I don't plan to vote for him (or anyone else for that matter). Just disgusted by Nitram's Obama apologist crap. And still trying to wrap my mind around the idea that we've actually reached the point where he may well be the least of all evils.

We can do worse. We can always do worse. That is not a compliment, by the way; "I could do worse" does not mean "I have done well." I wish Obama was the worst we could do. The world would be a better place if Obama was as bad as government got in democratic countries.

I think that the government shooting people in the face with a JDAM or bombing people with M-16s is worse than the government disallowing some people to marry, and I think shrapnel emissions are much more serious than carbon emissions, and such. These things are all bad, yes, and I can get that people feel strongly about a lot of these issues. Which is a good thing, because if a guy's organs were scattered to pieces thanks to a JDAMRAAM landing right in the middle of the street, I bet he or she wouldn't be feeling strongly about lots of things right then.

My view on Ron Paul is that while he is opposed to the war in Afghanistan, and to starting further wars, if he could get away with it, he would basically turn the US into you and PeZook's version of Murca, resulting in all sorts of chaos and possibly rule by Joey Jojo. Ron Paul may not realize this, or may not care because he's crazy like that, but that's beside the point. And there might be people who would stop him from doing the worst things, but that is also beside the point, I think, because I'm not sure how much I can count on Congress or the American people to stop him, assuming he can win the election in the first place.

Given the power to do what he wanted, I don't think Ron Paul would cause less suffering and death. He'd just shuffle it around, trade some dying now for dying later, and then throw some extra shit on top. So I'm going to vote against that, because I know the war in Iraq is winding down, and I think the war in Afghanistan is going to wind down over the coming years, and I know I can't bring back the dead by turning the US into Murca.

You, of course, living in an entirely different country on the other side of the world, might reasonably think differently. You might think it was totally okay for the US to smash itself in the face. You might sit back and laugh at a Ron Paul presidency, and so might the Iraqis and everyone else. I understand that, and I don't complain about that. The US has disgraced itself, and there are a lot of people who would love to see it catch several big exploding pies in the face, especially if it threw the pies itself.

But I don't think I'm out of line in not wanting that for myself or the people I care for, most of whom live in the US and many of whom would definitely be hurt under a Ron Paul presidency.

[Panzersharkcat]

On the topic of the newsletters: those were back in the day when the libertarian movement was trying to court the paleocon types. It's very obviously not Paul's writing style and were likely ghostwritten by Lew Rockwell or Murray Rothbard. Sadly, Paul continues to fall on his sword for his old friends by refusing to out them as the real authors. Bleeding Heart Libertarians has a good article on that.

[MKSheppard]

I've already covered this. It's just ad-hominem bullshit, both against Representative Paul, and now against me.

Ad homimem how?

RON PAUL has been publishing newsletters on a monthlyish basis in his own name under variations of this:

Ron Paul's Freedom Report
Ron Paul Political Report
The Ron Paul Survival Report

Since 1978, and he even went so far as to obtain a 1-800 number; namely:

1-800-RON-PAUL.

How is it an ad hominem attack to point out that one of Ron Paul's major sources of income for the last what thirty years is hysterical crypto-racist fearmongering that plays to the fears of stupid people through mob psychology -- e.g. the sense of "knowing inside information" that makes said stupid people "Feel important".

Is this the kind of person we want as president?

No.

[MKSheppard]

On the topic of the newsletters: those were back in the day when the libertarian movement was trying to court the paleocon types. It's very obviously not Paul's writing style and were likely ghostwritten by Lew Rockwell or Murray Rothbard. Sadly, Paul continues to fall on his sword for his old friends by refusing to out them as the real authors.

So what? Whose name has been on those newsletters for the last 33 years?

Whose name was on that 1-800 line which was used for sales of said items?

1-800-RON-PAUL

He owns this 105%.

[Oni Koneko Damien]

The irony that this blatant attempt at trolling and thread-derailment is coming from a known racist with a long history of doing precisely that is only about as astounding as the fact that he likely won't get called on it in any official measure.

Ooh, I'm sorry about that, I forgot that poisoning the well and ad-homs are only allowed if they're directed at D13. Arguments stand and fall on their own merits, rather than on the people presenting them here!