The Culture vs. the Galactic Empire

[SylasGaunt]

You're right they don't. Their technology has progressed to the point they don't need to.. however if you WANT to work they're perfectly content to let you.

[consequences]

That isn't an excuse for making inane and unsupportable arguments.
Oh, and seeing something coming doesn't mean you can do jack shit to stop it.

[Stormbringer]

But Palplatine would foresee an attack like that.

Which would mean jack shit when against the Culture. If he forced them to attack they'd break out the ROUs and curb stomp the Empire.

If it was peaceful the Culture would just use a few tricks and the Empire would be Culture before they knew it.

[Eddy the Very Great]

What about the Valley of the Jedi? According to JK: DFII, it would give you the power to cause groups of stars to supernova and allow to destroy entire species a star system away. But it was just a short line of dialogue in a game, so it's not exactly canon.

[fgalkin]

I'd say that the Empire wins. They have the Force. I know that in a straight fight they would lose, but if Vader infiltrated the culture the way Palpatine took control of the Republic, then the GE could win. The culture can't be that stable. It's a galaxy wide anarchy. It would take relatively little topple them.

You, sir are an ignorant moron. The Force is nothing compared to even a single Mind.

How, exactly will you lure a supercomputer to the Dark side?

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[fgalkin]

What about the Valley of the Jedi? According to JK: DFII, it would give you the power to cause groups of stars to supernova and allow to destroy entire species a star system away. But it was just a short line of dialogue in a game, so it's not exactly canon.

Suure. Except that Culture ships surf supernovas for FUN.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[Eddy the Very Great]

Fine, the Empire doesn't stand a chance in it's ordinary state, but the Force is far greater than a culture mind. That was an important point of SW. Also, if these culture minds are so smart, then why are they doing all the work for a group of lazy people.

[fgalkin]

Fine, the Empire doesn't stand a chance in it's ordinary state, but the Force is far greater than a culture mind. That was an important point of SW. Also, if these culture minds are so smart, then why are they doing all the work for a group of lazy people.

Because they are bored shitless, and solving problems for people is what they do to alleviate that boredom. That, or Infinite Fun. It's either help out the humans, or Sublime.

Oh, and how exactly is the Force greater than a Mind?

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[Stormbringer]

Fine, the Empire doesn't stand a chance in it's ordinary state, but the Force is far greater than a culture mind. That was an important point of SW.

How is the force going to mess with a Mind. And how is the Force going to stop Gridfire? And what's it going to do against an effector? Or CAMs or Nanomissles?

Also, if these culture minds are so smart, then why are they doing all the work for a group of lazy people.

Because they can. Basically because it gives them somethingto do and it doesn't really take any effort on their part, about as much brain power as you spend on breathing.

[fgalkin]

-ROU shows up at Battle of Endor-
"All you imperial guys better turn of your weapons or I'll start tossing around several thousand GTs of firepower!"
-Commander on Executor, blinks twice, smiles, laughs and replies-
"Each of our ships can fire that much each second, what can that little tincan corvette do?"
"You asked for it!"
-ROU extends maniple field, catches an ISD, and...
CHUCKS IT AT THE DS2-
-After about 6 ISDs thrown at something in the order of .6c each, the shield fails-
-A 5 kgs of AM appears suddenly, next to the reactor-
*BOOM
-To finish the ROU effectorizes the entire flottila of ISDs and finally overruns the SSDs computer and forces all the containment units for the hypermatter reactor to shut down.-
*Boom

Oh and POKE DA n00-b!!!!!

Why knock the DS's shields down? They can displace the CAM directly into it.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[Captain tycho]

Wow, is this an old thread.
September of 2002?

[Darth Wong]

Why even bother arguing this? It would be more interesting to pit Galactus against the Culture, since he's the embodiment of an entire universe and soaks up the energy of anything that comes close to him.

[Shinova]

Why even bother arguing this? It would be more interesting to pit Galactus against the Culture, since he's the embodiment of an entire universe and soaks up the energy of anything that comes close to him.

To set off this little tangent, I start by saying that though I know nothing about Galactus, a being with that much stored energy makes for a nice effector target. Just my two cents.

[Darth Wong]

Why even bother arguing this? It would be more interesting to pit Galactus against the Culture, since he's the embodiment of an entire universe and soaks up the energy of anything that comes close to him.

To set off this little tangent, I start by saying that though I know nothing about Galactus, a being with that much stored energy makes for a nice effector target. Just my two cents.

I suppose I should point out that Galactus does not have a "brain" in any conventional sense, but rather, exists as the embodiment of a fundamental force of the universe: he exists in order to maintain the balance between life and death. He can grow to the size of a star or shrink to the size of a small apartment building. He wipes out whole starfleets with a wave of his hand, and consumes planets for sustenance.

Psionics are useless against him, and the only things which seem to affect him are either competing fundamental forces, his own moral reluctance to feed as often as he needs (since feeding usually involves killing billions), and magic (even magic is generally ineffective; the only magic which ever hurt him AFAIK was a spell which causes the victim to visualize every person he has ever killed; in his case, a particularly horrendous spell).

[Xon]

Why even bother arguing this? It would be more interesting to pit Galactus against the Culture, since he's the embodiment of an entire universe and soaks up the energy of anything that comes close to him.

So what would happen when they show him the Grid, an apparently, unlimitless supply of energy which can be very easily obtained?

[Hendrake]

I don't think the Culture would be bothered by the Empire enaugh to dispach an attack team. After all they didn't even with the Affront...

I think they would infiltrate the Empire to pull their strings a la Player of Games, since the only thing in the Empire that might interest them is the hyperdrive.

[NecronLord]

Suure. Except that Culture ships surf supernovas for FUN.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Actually that's blatantly untrue. See the Iridian war, supernovas are dangerous to the culture. Not that it matters, they'd simply stay in hyperspace.

[Xon]

Suure. Except that Culture ships surf supernovas for FUN.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Actually that's blatantly untrue. See the Iridian war, supernovas are dangerous to the culture. Not that it matters, they'd simply stay in hyperspace.

Just because they do it for fun does mean its 100% safe. One Culture novel I've read, cant remember which, Culture 'humans' were canoeing in lava. They would still die if they did something stupid, but as long as they werent utter idiots they could enjoy a high risk sport.

Also for someone to experience fun as humans understand the term, there needs to be an element of risk involved.

[SyntaxVorlon]

Culture humans are also very idealistic and smart, and a good number still do work. Some act as ambassadors, Genar, the halfmonkey on the airsphere, etc. Others work for SC.

[XaLEv]

I suppose I should point out that Galactus does not have a "brain" in any conventional sense, but rather, exists as the embodiment of a fundamental force of the universe: he exists in order to maintain the balance between life and death. He can grow to the size of a star or shrink to the size of a small apartment building. He wipes out whole starfleets with a wave of his hand, and consumes planets for sustenance.

Psionics are useless against him, and the only things which seem to affect him are either competing fundamental forces, his own moral reluctance to feed as often as he needs (since feeding usually involves killing billions), and magic (even magic is generally ineffective; the only magic which ever hurt him AFAIK was a spell which causes the victim to visualize every person he has ever killed; in his case, a particularly horrendous spell).

Effectors are not just technological psionics. They are used to manipulate energy and electromagnetism in general, with mind control being only one possible application. They are also used as sensors, and have "suck" and "blow" settings; drain an object of energy or flood it.

Eddy: Explain how exactly a force user is going to Mind Trick an entity more intelligent than a human can imagine, who can simulate the life and death of an entire universe FOR FUN, who can monitor billions of processes from the simplest household appliance to the most complex piece of ultratechnology while simultaneously carrying on conversations with hundreds of millions of other sapients ranging from human children to other Minds and tracking in real time every ship and asteroid in the system. Provide examples of Force users manipulating the nearest SW equivalent of Minds: droids and computers. Prove that they even can manipulate non biological intelligences, other than just picking them up and throwing them.

[NecronLord]

Just because they do it for fun does mean its 100% safe. One Culture novel I've read, cant remember which, Culture 'humans' were canoeing in lava. They would still die if they did something stupid, but as long as they werent utter idiots they could enjoy a high risk sport.

Also for someone to experience fun as humans understand the term, there needs to be an element of risk involved.

Supernova induction os a culture battle tactic, therefore it is dangerous to them.

[Shinova]

Supernova induction os a culture battle tactic, therefore it is dangerous to them.

But they also surf them.

Look to Windward wasn't that clear on the Twin Novae event. The Idirans blew up two stars (or more?) and these apparently wiped out all the inhabitants in the region. What those people were living on or in, not entirely sure.

[Singular Quartet]

Supernova induction os a culture battle tactic, therefore it is dangerous to them.

But they also surf them.

Look to Windward wasn't that clear on the Twin Novae event. The Idirans blew up two stars (or more?) and these apparently wiped out all the inhabitants in the region. What those people were living on or in, not entirely sure.

It is not known who set off those supernovae. Also, it must eb understood that the Idrian war was around 800 or so years before Look to Windward and Excession. The tactic may only be effective against smaller craft (GCUs and Modules) because either a GSV or an ROU was hiding in a sun at the begining of Consider Phleobas.

Also, somehow, I don't consider a Mind to be "Weak-willed"

[Luke Starkiller]

Supernova induction os a culture battle tactic, therefore it is dangerous to them.

But they also surf them.

Look to Windward wasn't that clear on the Twin Novae event. The Idirans blew up two stars (or more?) and these apparently wiped out all the inhabitants in the region. What those people were living on or in, not entirely sure.

It is not known who set off those supernovae. Also, it must eb understood that the Idrian war was around 800 or so years before Look to Windward and Excession. The tactic may only be effective against smaller craft (GCUs and Modules) because either a GSV or an ROU was hiding in a sun at the begining of Consider Phleobas.

Also, somehow, I don't consider a Mind to be "Weak-willed"

It was a Mountain Class GCU actually.

[Singular Quartet]

But they also surf them.

Look to Windward wasn't that clear on the Twin Novae event. The Idirans blew up two stars (or more?) and these apparently wiped out all the inhabitants in the region. What those people were living on or in, not entirely sure.

It is not known who set off those supernovae. Also, it must eb understood that the Idrian war was around 800 or so years before Look to Windward and Excession. The tactic may only be effective against smaller craft (GCUs and Modules) because either a GSV or an ROU was hiding in a sun at the begining of Consider Phleobas.

Also, somehow, I don't consider a Mind to be "Weak-willed"

It was a Mountain Class GCU actually.

Sorry, haven't read consider phleobas in a few years, and I no longer have access to a copy.

Also, the Battle of Twin Novae, IIRC, was in an Idrian system, wasn't it?