Get your fill of sci-fi, science, and mockery of stupid people
* FAQ    * Search   * Login 
Want to support this site? Click

Quote of the Week: "In the United States, the majority undertakes to supply a multitude of ready-made opinions for the use of individuals, who are thus relieved from the necessity of forming opinions of their own." - Alexis de Tocqueville, French writer (1805-1859)


All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 43 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: What if scenario (Dresden Files meets game of thrones) PostPosted: 2012-04-08 04:45am
Offline
Jedi Knight

Joined: 2011-11-20 12:59am
Posts: 846
The edit window is closed so I'd like to add; hopefully some of his chivalry is gone by now, because if not he's fucked. Dresden is prone to treating human women...lightly, as well as making other irrational decisions, if he can't rein in those urges there'll be trouble especially considering how different Westeros' moral code can be from ours at times.

Hell, it's likely that he wouldn't be under the control of any one person.

Oh and yeah, the maesters will probably poison him anyway,

Top
 Profile  
 Post subject: Re: What if scenario (Dresden Files meets game of thrones) PostPosted: 2012-04-08 05:15pm
Offline
Jedi Master
User avatar

Joined: 2008-12-29 03:09pm
Posts: 1342
Location: The 11th Circle of Hell
He Had no problem wasting the Duchess Arianna (aka the bitch who kidnapped and planned to murder his kid to avenge a grudge.) He even mocks her before delivering the coup de gras (though it must be said that the bitch really and I mean REALLY earned it.) He also killed Susan to save his daughter. In changes he crosses a lot of lines.



"Lexx takes politically correct Star Trek-style sci-fi, murders its conventions, and then urinates on their graves" Darth Wong on LEXX

"Screw the Rules I Have Money" Yugioh the Abridged Series.

"But then again as a kid I wanted the planeeters to die horrible deaths when Captain Planet was on TV"-Sarevok

Top
 Profile  
 Post subject: Re: What if scenario (Dresden Files meets game of thrones) PostPosted: 2012-04-09 06:30am
Offline
Jaina Dax
User avatar

Joined: 2002-07-08 05:08am
Posts: 4732
Location: Malmö, Sweden
Darth Yan wrote:
He Had no problem wasting the Duchess Arianna (aka the bitch who kidnapped and planned to murder his kid to avenge a grudge.) He even mocks her before delivering the coup de gras (though it must be said that the bitch really and I mean REALLY earned it.)

Arianna was a supernatural creature. I'd agree it smacks of legalism, but the Laws of Magic apparently permits him to use magic against her where using it against a human would be disallowed. Interestingly, he was also permitted to use it against Cowl, an (apparently) human wizard, whereas going off to kill Victor Sells with magic would be the act of a warlock.

I reconcile it as follows: the Laws of Magic, like magic itself, partially deals with intent. If you are suddenly attacked by magic, even magic wielded by a human, you are allowed to retaliate until the immediate threat is neutralized. If, however, you knowingly put yourself in a position to use magic against another human, then that is black magic.

Darth Yan wrote:
He also killed Susan to save his daughter. In changes he crosses a lot of lines.

It has everything to do with magic. The Susan situation does not apply.



"Travelers with closed minds can tell us little except about themselves."
--Chinua Achebe

Top
 Profile  
 Post subject: Re: What if scenario (Dresden Files meets game of thrones) PostPosted: 2012-04-09 08:23am
Online
Jedi Master
User avatar

Joined: 2004-06-19 12:27am
Posts: 1292
Well Susan at the time he brought the ritual down on her was a vampire anyway, making it so totally not warlock magic for him. Legally anyway. The moral mindfuck he went through after though, that's between he and his inner id.

Top
 Profile  
 Post subject: Re: What if scenario (Dresden Files meets game of thrones) PostPosted: 2012-04-09 09:32am
Offline
Emperor's Hand
User avatar

Joined: 2002-07-07 04:57pm
Posts: 9290
Location: Sheffield, UK
Darth Yan wrote:
He Had no problem wasting the Duchess Arianna (aka the bitch who kidnapped and planned to murder his kid to avenge a grudge.) He even mocks her before delivering the coup de gras (though it must be said that the bitch really and I mean REALLY earned it.) He also killed Susan to save his daughter. In changes he crosses a lot of lines.


Vampires are already dead. This might sound like a technicality, but it is actually the dividing line according to the White Council.

And whilst Harry stepped over the line in Changes, it's pretty much the whole point of Ghost Story that he is a fundamentally moral individual. He doesn't just respect the laws of magic because someone like Morgan is waiting for him to slip up, but because he actually believes in the principles behind them.

Top
 Profile  
 Post subject: Re: What if scenario (Dresden Files meets game of thrones) PostPosted: 2012-04-09 10:26am
Offline
Jedi Knight

Joined: 2010-07-09 12:27am
Posts: 502
Darth Yan wrote:
He also killed Susan to save his daughter. In changes he crosses a lot of lines.


Off topic: does it bother anyone else that none of the characters say anything about this ever? They're all going on about what he did to Molly, and then she's off crying about "you don't want to shag me! Waaah!" but no-one, not even an actual Archangel of God seems to think that planning and executing the murder of his baby mama is something worth mentioning. It gets even worse when you consider that the method by which he murdered her quite possibly damned her soul for eternity.

Back on topic: and it's that kind of crap that makes me think Dresden would probably end up turning to the black arts if he stayed in Westeros. Eventually with the power he has he'd end up just roasting someone under the guise of "doing the greater good". It's who he is.

Top
 Profile  
 Post subject: Re: What if scenario (Dresden Files meets game of thrones) PostPosted: 2012-04-09 11:11am
Online
Emperor's Hand
User avatar

Joined: 2003-04-10 03:45pm
Posts: 7915
Location: Cheshire, England
Guys, I know its been a while since they came out but not everyone has read to the end of the Dresden Files yet. And there aren't any specific spoiler warnings on it.

What I'm trying to say is... Wish I hadn't read this thread now. :(



Got the Moves, Got the Mojo...
No Harder Working Pony Around

Image
Banner By JME2
EBC - The Limey Bastards

Top
 Profile  
 Post subject: Re: What if scenario (Dresden Files meets game of thrones) PostPosted: 2012-04-09 11:40am
Online
Jedi Master
User avatar

Joined: 2004-06-19 12:27am
Posts: 1292
Chirios wrote:
Darth Yan wrote:
He also killed Susan to save his daughter. In changes he crosses a lot of lines.


Off topic: does it bother anyone else that none of the characters say anything about this ever? They're all going on about what he did to Molly, and then she's off crying about "you don't want to shag me! Waaah!" but no-one, not even an actual Archangel of God seems to think that planning and executing the murder of his baby mama is something worth mentioning. It gets even worse when you consider that the method by which he murdered her quite possibly damned her soul for eternity.

Back on topic: and it's that kind of crap that makes me think Dresden would probably end up turning to the black arts if he stayed in Westeros. Eventually with the power he has he'd end up just roasting someone under the guise of "doing the greater good". It's who he is.

Uriel isn't the kind to show a flashing sign at what you did wrong. He did exactly what you thought he didn't, but not by throwing blatant criticism at Harry. He guided Harry to the point in his thoughts where Harry could literally say to himself "wow, I fucked up", and let Harry's conscience do the rest. Uriel knows Harry has the conscience, but Uriel's style is for Harry to figure it out on his own, if with a little help.

Top
 Profile  
 Post subject: Re: What if scenario (Dresden Files meets game of thrones) PostPosted: 2012-04-09 12:09pm
Offline
Jedi Master
User avatar

Joined: 2008-12-29 03:09pm
Posts: 1342
Location: The 11th Circle of Hell
[Reveal] Spoiler:
Harry himself admits that Susan would have lived if he had thought things through. for instance, if he had seen the red king's betrayal coming then he could have forced him to actually honor the deal and they all would have left with the girl.



"Lexx takes politically correct Star Trek-style sci-fi, murders its conventions, and then urinates on their graves" Darth Wong on LEXX

"Screw the Rules I Have Money" Yugioh the Abridged Series.

"But then again as a kid I wanted the planeeters to die horrible deaths when Captain Planet was on TV"-Sarevok

Top
 Profile  
 Post subject: Re: What if scenario (Dresden Files meets game of thrones) PostPosted: 2012-04-09 12:19pm
Offline
Emperor's Hand
User avatar

Joined: 2002-07-07 04:57pm
Posts: 9290
Location: Sheffield, UK
Gaidin wrote:
riel isn't the kind to show a flashing sign at what you did wrong. He did exactly what you thought he didn't, but not by throwing blatant criticism at Harry. He guided Harry to the point in his thoughts where Harry could literally say to himself "wow, I fucked up", and let Harry's conscience do the rest. Uriel knows Harry has the conscience, but Uriel's style is for Harry to figure it out on his own, if with a little help.


Barely any help at all, most of the time. (Except for the right seven words at the right time).

It's worth noting that Uriel is, despite his provenance as an Archangel, also a bit of a bastard.

Top
 Profile  
 Post subject: Re: What if scenario (Dresden Files meets game of thrones) PostPosted: 2012-04-09 12:24pm
Offline
Jedi Knight

Joined: 2011-03-21 07:59am
Posts: 932
[Reveal] Spoiler:
He gets a pass on killing Susan because he didn't use magic to kill her and didn't do any of the actual magic involved in the spell, so it's not technically black magic, and while it might be skirting the edges of what a wizard can do the results and Harrys support among the younger Wardens mean he gets a pass from them. Technically it was murder, and it was a nasty, grubby deed, but it wasn't premeditated. Until he and Susan were in the room he had no idea what was actually going down, and if you can see another way out of the situation he was in when he made the decision to tell Susan who kidnapped her daughter that didn't involve everyone he brought with him dying you are a smarter man than I. He could have seen it coming if he had a bit more information or was a bit smarter, but he wasn't. And they aren't so much giving him a pass as not bringing it up. He already literally sold his soul to get there, and they know he really didn't take it well, and he had already subconsciously decided to kill himself before he even did it, which at least one person knew, and more than one other had probably had a pretty good idea he was going to given what they said to him in hindsight. Plus, technically he is dead so no one has had much time to yell at him about it. I'll be surprised if it doesn't come up in the next book, frankly.

Top
 Profile  
 Post subject: Re: What if scenario (Dresden Files meets game of thrones) PostPosted: 2012-04-20 02:42am
Offline
Jedi Master
User avatar

Joined: 2008-12-29 03:09pm
Posts: 1342
Location: The 11th Circle of Hell
One thing I wonder is how Cersei would react to the news that he killed his kid's mother to save her, and how people would react to the red king's description (the guy had manacles made TO FIT CHILDREN and caused far more misery than Aerys's ever did.



"Lexx takes politically correct Star Trek-style sci-fi, murders its conventions, and then urinates on their graves" Darth Wong on LEXX

"Screw the Rules I Have Money" Yugioh the Abridged Series.

"But then again as a kid I wanted the planeeters to die horrible deaths when Captain Planet was on TV"-Sarevok

Top
 Profile  
 Post subject: Re: What if scenario (Dresden Files meets game of thrones) PostPosted: 2012-04-20 03:18am
Offline
Sith Marauder
User avatar

Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am
Posts: 3786
Location: Victoria, Canada
Why would Dresden tell anyone about that? Maybe it would be revealed if he soul gazed someone.

Top
 Profile  
 Post subject: Re: What if scenario (Dresden Files meets game of thrones) PostPosted: 2012-04-20 07:22am
Offline
Jaina Dax
User avatar

Joined: 2002-07-08 05:08am
Posts: 4732
Location: Malmö, Sweden
I think the danger of soulgazing is a lot more straightforward. There are any number of people in Westeros who would empathically be not happy that someone just palpably and unambiguously looked into their innermost heart and secrets.

How much would Littlefinger enjoy having his ambitions and secrets made known for all the world to see? Would Tywin Lannister be any more forgiving?



"Travelers with closed minds can tell us little except about themselves."
--Chinua Achebe

Top
 Profile  
 Post subject: Re: What if scenario (Dresden Files meets game of thrones) PostPosted: 2012-04-20 09:31am
Offline
Sith Marauder
User avatar

Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am
Posts: 3786
Location: Victoria, Canada
Fortunately, its not like Harry goes around soul gazing every one he meets. Its even less likely he'd do it without their consent.

And if someone decides they want his head, well, what else is new? He has half the Wardens and Senior Council, the Denarians, and the Black Council after him, among others. Nobody is killing him one on one unless they pull off a surprise attack, and I'd like to see men with swords succeed where men with guns and magic have failed. Even in an ambush, you're only getting one chance before he's on his guard, and if you don't kill him fast, hello death curse.

Top
 Profile  
 Post subject: Re: What if scenario (Dresden Files meets game of thrones) PostPosted: 2012-04-22 05:44am
Offline
Jedi Knight

Joined: 2010-07-09 12:27am
Posts: 502
The issue, as far as I can tell, is one of sheer numbers. If one of the groups can send enough people at once after him they might be able to kill him just by swarming him. Or maybe trying to kill him while he sleeps.

Top
 Profile  
 Post subject: Re: What if scenario (Dresden Files meets game of thrones) PostPosted: 2012-04-22 05:54am
Offline
Sith Marauder
User avatar

Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am
Posts: 3786
Location: Victoria, Canada
As has already been discussed, he can use wards to protect himself while he's asleep.

As for numbers, yes, a large enough number could kill him. The best bet though might be a man with a bow. Basically the Medieval version of Kincade's approach. But they'd need a good shot to hit him and not his enchanted coat, and inflict a serious enough wound that he won't be able to cast a death curse before going down.

Top
 Profile  
 Post subject: Re: What if scenario (Dresden Files meets game of thrones) PostPosted: 2012-04-22 06:03am
Offline
Jaina Dax
User avatar

Joined: 2002-07-08 05:08am
Posts: 4732
Location: Malmö, Sweden
The Romulan Republic wrote:
As has already been discussed, he can use wards to protect himself while he's asleep.

As for numbers, yes, a large enough number could kill him. The best bet though might be a man with a bow. Basically the Medieval version of Kincade's approach. But they'd need a good shot to hit him and not his enchanted coat, and inflict a serious enough wound that he won't be able to cast a death curse before going down.


Death curse is immaterial. A deterrent only works if it's a known factor. The only use it will be for Dresden is posthumous revenge.



"Travelers with closed minds can tell us little except about themselves."
--Chinua Achebe

Top
 Profile  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 43 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Batman, The Guid and 6 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group