Moronic technology of the Matrix

Big Orange · Post by **Big Orange** » 2007-02-06 06:24am

I saw "01" being totally annihilated by multiple nuclear strikes and all that was likely left of "01" was a one hundred mile radius smudge of polished glass - the AIs could've only survived if they somehow escaped into the human held cities and factories in secret.

wautd · Post by **wautd** » 2007-02-06 07:06am

RIPP_n_WIPE wrote:
The machines "defense" was nothing more than those sucide bombers that the squids threw and they didn't seem to move that fast at that (though that could have been simply camera perspective)

That pissed me off to no extend. The only "ranged" weapon of the squids is a bomb they needed to trow (even tough they have the tech to make things fly). And it was not a normal bomb, oh no, it had to be a machine as well. I tought the whole fucking point was that the machines didn't want to die?

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2007-02-06 10:35am

PeZook wrote:While machines would be immune to fallout and radiation, they would not be immune to the overpressure wave and fireball, which is what does most of the damage.

Computers are not at all immune to radiation; in sufficient quantities it can damage or destroy them, but even at non-damaging levels it can create a lot of data errors. Further, if a droid survives the nuclear barrage but was severely irradiated by it, the droid could well be impaired by the ongoing interference caused by the radiation his body is putting out, if his brain isn't hardened against radiation.

PeZook · Post by **PeZook** » 2007-02-06 02:33pm

Uraniun235 wrote: Computers are not at all immune to radiation; in sufficient quantities it can damage or destroy them, but even at non-damaging levels it can create a lot of data errors. Further, if a droid survives the nuclear barrage but was severely irradiated by it, the droid could well be impaired by the ongoing interference caused by the radiation his body is putting out, if his brain isn't hardened against radiation.

Wouldn't this vulnerability depends on the storage medium, though? Besides, if the droid was close enough to the blast to be severely irradiated, chances are the EMP has fried it's circuits already, or he was squished by the blast wave.

RIPP_n_WIPE · Post by **RIPP_n_WIPE** » 2007-02-06 03:59pm

Big Orange wrote:I saw "01" being totally annihilated by multiple nuclear strikes and all that was likely left of "01" was a one hundred mile radius smudge of polished glass - the AIs could've only survived if they somehow escaped into the human held cities and factories in secret.

And the prices of windows drop dramatically!

Big Orange · Post by **Big Orange** » 2007-02-06 05:20pm

If the Zion rebels put all their faith in EMP as a primary weapon, like in any war wouldn't the AIs take that on board and insulate themselves against the EMP accordingly? And the AIs must've somehow escaped "01", since nothing could survive a nuclear strike like that.

RIPP_n_WIPE · Post by **RIPP_n_WIPE** » 2007-02-06 06:09pm

Big Orange wrote:If the Zion rebels put all their faith in EMP as a primary weapon, like in any war wouldn't the AIs take that on board and insulate themselves against the EMP accordingly? And the AIs must've somehow escaped "01", since nothing could survive a nuclear strike like that.

Apparently the magical 01 machines did.

Seriously though I looked over the second renaissance again and just thought "Damn"! 01 was at least 100 miles wide and they were nuking the whole freaking thing. Wouldn't that have like poisoned tons of people due to prevailing winds blowing fallout to like india and persia?

Big Orange · Post by **Big Orange** » 2007-02-06 06:28pm

This is getting confusing; weren't we talking about the Zion rebels killing tons of "copper tops"?

Darth Tanner · Post by **Darth Tanner** » 2007-02-06 06:51pm

I just watched the second renaissance on youtube to see what the fuss was about and other than the obvious machines escape nuclear carpet bombing by magic crap the thing that struck me the most was how did these machines who were being eradicated in such a global state of panic that there was public 'executions' of robots in the streets by gun fire and mass graves for their bodies rather than a simple calm mass recall of the model that was capable of murder go on to not only establish a full blown city in full view of the world but also to establish trade links with the rest of the world that had been so committed to the extermination of the rogue robots 30 seconds before!

Also in terms of radiation poisoning aren't humans able to take a lot more than machines, from what I know it takes quite a long time to die from mild radiation poisoning while even a low exposure can simply fry circuit boards utterly.

Oh and in the size of the Matrix debate I always thought that the matrix was a network of independent worlds, say each of those towers of people that Neo was plugged into was its own mega city, of perhaps a few million people,with no connection to each other. This would make managing the matrix easier as each tower wouldn't need massive computer interfaces with each other and each tower could be reset every so often, when the stock held within reached certain age, maintaing the constantly 1999 thing.

Vendetta · Post by **Vendetta** » 2007-02-06 07:21pm

Seriously, being amazed that any part of The Matrix is stupid is like being amazed that water is wet.

The first one was a great brain off action movie. Post that, it's the embodiment in film of stupid.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2007-02-06 07:35pm

Darth Tanner wrote:I just watched the second renaissance on youtube to see what the fuss was about and other than the obvious machines escape nuclear carpet bombing by magic crap the thing that struck me the most was how did these machines who were being eradicated in such a global state of panic that there was public 'executions' of robots in the streets by gun fire and mass graves for their bodies rather than a simple calm mass recall of the model that was capable of murder go on to not only establish a full blown city in full view of the world but also to establish trade links with the rest of the world that had been so committed to the extermination of the rogue robots 30 seconds before!

1) Punctuation, retard.

2) This might come out of left field, but I think the reaction to the AIs was a clumsy attempt at a racism allegory. Sure, they could have done things sensibly in all manner of ways, but that wouldn't have had 'ethnic cleansing' vibes.

Erik von Nein · Post by **Erik von Nein** » 2007-02-06 09:06pm

Stark wrote:2) This might come out of left field, but I think the reaction to the AIs was a clumsy attempt at a racism allegory. Sure, they could have done things sensibly in all manner of ways, but that wouldn't have had 'ethnic cleansing' vibes.

Yeah, no, that was it. C'mon, mass graves, irrational fear, murder gangs in the streets? It was all ripped from various iconic genocide set pieces. You're supposed to feel sorry for them, or something, and less sorry for the horrible, horrible humans. Yeah.

Of course, you end up not feeling sorry for the humans because they're a bunch of fucking morons. Hey, let's blot out the sun! That'll work! Dur, hur hur.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2007-02-07 12:56am

It's actually stunning how little subtlety there is in their attempts to use their story as allegory for modern social issues. The only thing missing is an overlaid montage of black-and-white WW2 Nazi death camp footage.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2007-02-07 02:28am

PeZook wrote:Wouldn't this vulnerability depends on the storage medium, though?

I'm not just talking data corruption. Ionizing radiation can directly damage integrated circuits; throw enough radiation at a CPU and it will be damaged or destroyed. And, the more miniaturized it is, the more susceptible it will be; a brand-new CPU made today would be much more vulnerable to errors and damage than one from twenty years ago.

The other thing is that RAM is itself a series of ICs. What happens is that radiation will strike the circuit and flip a bit, corrupting data. Now, there are ways to harden against this from happening, and correct for it when it does, but they tend to negatively impact performance and even then they aren't completely fail-safe. I could see war machines being hardened against radiation but I doubt that every 'citizen' would necessarily be protected to such a degree.

The important thing is that even robots are vulnerable to radiation.

Besides, if the droid was close enough to the blast to be severely irradiated, chances are the EMP has fried it's circuits already, or he was squished by the blast wave.

Granted... although, their entire city is probably going to be a very radioactive place by the time such a bombardment is finished.

PeZook · Post by **PeZook** » 2007-02-07 03:10am

Uraniun235 wrote: (snip robots and radiation)

Ah, I see. Thank you, that's one brainbug that's out of my head, then.

Big Orange · Post by **Big Orange** » 2007-02-07 05:14am

Stark wrote: 2) This might come out of left field, but I think the reaction to the AIs was a clumsy attempt at a racism allegory. Sure, they could have done things sensibly in all manner of ways, but that wouldn't have had 'ethnic cleansing' vibes.

Well maybe it started off as ordely and innocuous re-call with the robot units, but then word spread and some of robots flipped out like the first psycho robo-butler and they started throwing human entrails all over the place, so the army was called in backed up by angry mobs.

Coalition · Post by **Coalition** » 2007-02-07 06:32am

What I'd like to think happened, is that the robots reviewed human history, and watched the news. The history of the Matrix talked about how the robots were having a positive balance of trade, due to better products and lower production costs.

This gives the Machines a large reserve of cash. A few bribes here and there, some cut-outs, and they could have bought out people around the globe, setting up backup sites all over the globe. Sector 01 accepts its role as a target, while the rest of the Machines are taking over factories around the globe. It effectively becomes a mechanical Japan, relying upon raw materials for imports, and selling high-tech goods. Providing higher prices for raw materials keeps the supplying nations fairly friendly, delaying votes in the UN for blockades.

When the nukes go off, the Machines have already bought up the industries that produce nuclear weapons, and either have sabotaged missiles to prevent detonation, or alert the world governments that if more nukes are launched, the Machines will retaliate.

The governments are alarmed at the sudden emergence of the Machines as a nuclear power, but see a possible solution. The Machine factories are separated all over the globe, so ground attacks are ordered to take out each factory. This leads to the ground fighting you see in the preview.

The Machines even have an advantage in communications, as if a tactic is used in one part of the globe, the information is sent to others. This allows the Machines to keep abreast and ahead of developments. The sky darkening is eventually adopted to cut off Machine communications with satellites, forcing each Machine city to act alone. Unfortunately, by this time the Machines have too much of an advantage, so the final surrender at the UN is accepted.

PeZook · Post by **PeZook** » 2007-02-07 08:28am

Coalition wrote: This gives the Machines a large reserve of cash. A few bribes here and there, some cut-outs, and they could have bought out people around the globe, setting up backup sites all over the globe. Sector 01 accepts its role as a target, while the rest of the Machines are taking over factories around the globe. It effectively becomes a mechanical Japan, relying upon raw materials for imports, and selling high-tech goods. Providing higher prices for raw materials keeps the supplying nations fairly friendly, delaying votes in the UN for blockades.

Yeah, this would actually make some sense. Hell, you wouldn't even have to buy out the factories and industry - I'd imagine people would be all nice and glad to be able to buy good, cheap products from 01 all the way untill their economies started failing. Of course I have no idea why the machines would enjoy that much of an economic advantage, but hey.

Coalition wrote: When the nukes go off, the Machines have already bought up the industries that produce nuclear weapons, and either have sabotaged missiles to prevent detonation, or alert the world governments that if more nukes are launched, the Machines will retaliate.

Oh, come on. Like they could just buy a factory that makes nukes and the launch vehicles. No nation would sell that kind of site to anyone. They could have become a nuclear power themselves, though, with their domestic industry if it was as l337 as SR want us to believe.

Coalition wrote:The governments are alarmed at the sudden emergence of the Machines as a nuclear power, but see a possible solution. The Machine factories are separated all over the globe, so ground attacks are ordered to take out each factory. This leads to the ground fighting you see in the preview.

And this is where your theory falls apart. All the humans would have to do would be to starve the factories for raw materials or cut off the power. Unless you envision "factories" which are in fact giant fortress-cities of their own, but then it begs the question of how the hell they could've established them inside foreign countries.

Coalition wrote:The Machines even have an advantage in communications, as if a tactic is used in one part of the globe, the information is sent to others. This allows the Machines to keep abreast and ahead of developments.

No amount of tactics would save you from a battery of self-propelled guns that is shelling your backup factory into the ground.

Coalition wrote:The sky darkening is eventually adopted to cut off Machine communications with satellites, forcing each Machine city to act alone. Unfortunately, by this time the Machines have too much of an advantage, so the final surrender at the UN is accepted.

Please...so the humans effectively commit suicide just to take down machine satellite comms? Why not, oh, I don't know - shoot down the satellites?

Face it, SR is stupid enough that any attempt to reconcile it with common sense is going to be a lost cause.

Ryushikaze · Post by **Ryushikaze** » 2007-02-07 01:12pm

Well, there is one way, the way I personally do it, and that is write it all off as propaganda BS, likely spread by the machines to give Zion a reason to want to fight back to keep the machines' little game going.

Big Orange · Post by **Big Orange** » 2007-02-07 01:42pm

Ryushikaze wrote:Well, there is one way, the way I personally do it, and that is write it all off as propaganda BS, likely spread by the machines to give Zion a reason to want to fight back to keep the machines' little game going.

It makes much more sense that it was actually the AIs that permanently corrupted the Earth’s atmosphere and that Coalition is merely expanding on my theory of the AIs secretly escaping "01" before it got flattened by H-bombs.