Moronic technology of the Matrix

[Baal]

I have read many times how stupid most people think they technology used by humanity was poorly designed or outright stupid.

Examples are the poor weapons of their ships. Limited utility of the EMP since it hurts you as much as it hurts the machines. Also commonly pointed out are the wannabe mechs with open cockpits.

Now all of this sounds like very poor design until you consider one important fact.

The tech used by humanity was not designed by humanity. It was designed by the machines and given to humanity at every reset when the machines rebuilt Zion and allowed the one and his twelve or so chosen to repopulate the species.

The Machines would never be interested in giving humans weapons that would actually allow them to sucessfully resist them. They gave them enough to make them think they had a chance and nothing more.

Opinions?

[Chris OFarrell]

The humans should be smart enough to weld a frigen cockpit onto the mechs??

And they can clearly maintain the technology. Hell given how easily they can upload information using the matrix technology into their minds, they should be able to make such simple improvements.

Granted they lack the infrastructure to build some things, but there are some basic rules they should follow themselves.

[Tanasinn]

Opinions?

My opinion is that the humans would necessarily be catonically stupid if they accepted some weapons with such drastic disadvantages at face value. Why, for example, don't the engineers among the resistence notice the gaping flaw in the power armours, that being the open cockpit? Wouldn't it be relatively simple to weld some sheet metal on the bar cage already covering the cockpit? You don't have to have designed something to know it has a gaping flaw.

[Baal]

Opinions?

My opinion is that the humans would necessarily be catonically stupid if they accepted some weapons with such drastic disadvantages at face value. Why, for example, don't the engineers among the resistence notice the gaping flaw in the power armours, that being the open cockpit? Wouldn't it be relatively simple to weld some sheet metal on the bar cage already covering the cockpit? You don't have to have designed something to know it has a gaping flaw.

Couple thoughts.

1. Do they even have the skills or materials to make major modifications to their weapons? It wouldnt take much brains to detach some of the ship EMPs and leave them as mines at strategic places to nail the machines but they never do. Why? Don't think of it or dont have the technology to do it.

2. Yes you see then humans able to download knowledge. But all that knowledge is 20th century level knowledge. You never see anyone get advanced information downloaded into their brain.

My guess is that when Zion was first populated the humans who "found" along with the one were conned into believing that they had discovered a lost city/fortress from the first war with the machines back when the sky was scorched.

[Tanasinn]

As far as 2.) goes, no dice. The concept of armor covering a vehicle's crewman is not new enough that the guys in charge of defense couldn't think of it. Certainly, if the resistance can maintain these walkers to begin with, they have the technology to bolt some plates of metal on so the pilots of said walkers don't get chewed to death by robotic flying squid.

As for 1.) I can't speculate. I'm not versed in makeshift mine-making, and I imagine it'd be more difficult than bolting a plate of metal onto a cockpit cage to protect a pilot. :p

[Baal]

As far as 2.) goes, no dice. The concept of armor covering a vehicle's crewman is not new enough that the guys in charge of defense couldn't think of it. Certainly, if the resistance can maintain these walkers to begin with, they have the technology to bolt some plates of metal on so the pilots of said walkers don't get chewed to death by robotic flying squid.

As for 1.) I can't speculate. I'm not versed in makeshift mine-making, and I imagine it'd be more difficult than bolting a plate of metal onto a cockpit cage to protect a pilot. :p

Your assuming that the mechs were ever used in battle before. If never used before then what says the open cockpit would be realized as a weakness.

Also and a much bigger point. You cannot just strap on some armor. For one you either need advanced monitors and cameras so the pilot can see to shoot or large windows of nearly useless defense value.

Second its not a tank its a MECH you know those dumb walking things that have to be able to stand upright. Putting armor plating around the unit without screwing up its balance and ruining its ability to even stand up or walk would be MUCH more difficult than getting the armor plates or just welding them on. Getting the materials or making the armor would be easy compared to the problem of adding the armor without making the mech useless.

[Ghost Rider]

If they were never used in combat before, then even still the concept of OPEN cockpit is something even man realized was dumb, since....oh the advent of armor.

And if fucks up the mech, then you go with what man discovered after fire....use a wheeled design. Better balance then two legs and lower target profile.

The Matrix technology is pure and utter writer fiat wank.

[Acidburns]

The mechs were obviously intended to be used for combat, they even took the time to train soldiers in it's use, the need for armour should be obvious. The seem to be reasonably effective at keep upright, they must be able to compensate for different pilot weight, and shifting centre of mass caused by expending their ammunition.

Further, these mechs are refered to as APUs, Armoured Personnel Units. In the Animatrix we see these APUs with armour. They were designed for an armoured cockpit.

Why don't they have the armour in Revolutions? Who the hell knows. Just as well, since the Machines attack using retarded wave attacks of giant weaponless flying squid.

[Molyneux]

The mechs were obviously intended to be used for combat, they even took the time to train soldiers in it's use, the need for armour should be obvious. The seem to be reasonably effective at keep upright, they must be able to compensate for different pilot weight, and shifting centre of mass caused by expending their ammunition.

Further, these mechs are refered to as APUs, Armoured Personnel Units. In the Animatrix we see these APUs with armour. They were designed for an armoured cockpit.

Why don't they have the armour in Revolutions? Who the hell knows. Just as well, since the Machines attack using retarded wave attacks of giant weaponless flying squid.

Perhaps they wasted all their resources putting armor on the ships, instead?

[Tychu]

Opinions?

2. Yes you see then humans able to download knowledge. But all that knowledge is 20th century level knowledge. You never see anyone get advanced information downloaded into their brain.

I was around for the last 14 years of the 20th century, i never saw anybody be able to download information straight into their brain. The closest i saw was the Virtual Boy and everything was RED

that technology is not 20th century

[Acidburns]

Perhaps they wasted all their resources putting armor on the ships, instead?

Yes, I was pondering along those lines myself. I still find it hard to believe they couldn't have cobbled something together. Even the crudest of armour would have helped protected a pilot from sentinel attacks.

Perhaps they stripped the armour original from the APUs to be used elsewhere? However the rounded appearance of the APU armour would be quite noticeable if it were used on say the ships I think.

[KrauserKrauser]

They probably used it as shiny decorations for the regular dance party/orgy.

Sounds about right for that level of stupidity.

[Setzer]

Yeah, the people in Zion are clearly idiots. Just watch the last film after the dock falls. They don't start fortifying their fallback point until then. Nice to see they have such intelligent people managing the war effort. That would have been a better scene in Reloaded. Instead we got a stupid rave.

[Tanasinn]

Your assuming that the mechs were ever used in battle before.

Based on the fact that we never see a civilian walker and that they all come equipped with complicated guns mounted to their hands, yes.

If never used before then what says the open cockpit would be realized as a weakness.

I've never used a mech before, but the first thing I did upon seeing one of those things was laugh that the pilot's body was so heavily expossed.

Also and a much bigger point. You cannot just strap on some armor. For one you either need advanced monitors and cameras so the pilot can see to shoot or large windows of nearly useless defense value.

You have a couple of options here:
1.) Bolt a few simple cameras on the outside of the plating and run their feeds into a few monitors bolted on the inside of the armor.

Or, more simply,

2.) Cut a slot or slot that lets the pilot view as much of the battlefield as possible.

The problem with the open cockpit was that it let the machines have immediate access to the pilot, letting them basically cut them to ribbons with their claws alone.

Second its not a tank its a MECH you know those dumb walking things that have to be able to stand upright. Putting armor plating around the unit without screwing up its balance and ruining its ability to even stand up or walk would be MUCH more difficult than getting the armor plates or just welding them on. Getting the materials or making the armor would be easy compared to the problem of adding the armor without making the mech useless.

Even a light layer of a simple metal would be preferrable to exposing the immobile pilot to the enemy. It doesn't have to be armored like a fucking battletank, it just needs to be able to cover the pilot; it isn't as if a bit of sheet metal would significantly shift the center of gravity of the mech and ruin its balance, either, not when it can handle those big guns, their ammunition, and their change in weight as the battle goes on.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Humanity clearly is all things stupid in that universe. Anyone who proposes Project Dark Storm in all seriousness, needs to be beaten to death.

[Acidburns]

Seems like there was a concept for a fully enclosed one, but....

Initial designs were produced by Conceptual Artist Geof Darrow. Some early renditions incorporated ideas such as a fully enclosed battle suit. (see The Art of The Matrix, pg 269) A final design was approved, with eventual minor changes such as the removal of the head shield and console plating to enable a clearer view of characters. Often details are altered to accommodate the requirements for filming. In this case the general look and feel is maintained but the needs of the story and character recognition is given priority.

[Azazal]

Seems like there was a concept for a fully enclosed one, but....

Initial designs were produced by Conceptual Artist Geof Darrow. Some early renditions incorporated ideas such as a fully enclosed battle suit. (see The Art of The Matrix, pg 269) A final design was approved, with eventual minor changes such as the removal of the head shield and console plating to enable a clearer view of characters. Often details are altered to accommodate the requirements for filming. In this case the general look and feel is maintained but the needs of the story and character recognition is given priority.

Why do I have a Guissness Commercial conversation running through my head now?

"To make movie viewing easier, we shall remove a character shield"
"Really, how?"
"Instead of painting the main character's mechs, we'll remove their armor. Thus allowing the audience to see their face."
"Won't that leave the character exposed to attack?"
"Yes, but we can then milk their death for pathos."
"Brilliant!"

[Sidewinder]

Why do I have a Guissness Commercial conversation running through my head now?

"To make movie viewing easier, we shall remove a character shield"
"Really, how?"
"Instead of painting the main character's mechs, we'll remove their armor. Thus allowing the audience to see their face."
"Won't that leave the character exposed to attack?"
"Yes, but we can then milk their death for pathos."
"Brilliant!"

The Wachowski brothers are clearly otaku, so... why the fuck don't they just paint Mifune's APU red, like Char Aznable's? Why don't they borrow an idea from 'Aliens' and have every pilot's face on a monitor in some command center, so Lock-- and the audience-- can watch the faces contort in pain as the APUs are torn apart by the sentinels?

[Tanasinn]

Why do I have a Guissness Commercial conversation running through my head now?

"To make movie viewing easier, we shall remove a character shield"
"Really, how?"
"Instead of painting the main character's mechs, we'll remove their armor. Thus allowing the audience to see their face."
"Won't that leave the character exposed to attack?"
"Yes, but we can then milk their death for pathos."
"Brilliant!"

The Wachowski brothers are clearly otaku, so... why the fuck don't they just paint Mifune's APU red, like Char Aznable's? Why don't they borrow an idea from 'Aliens' and have every pilot's face on a monitor in some command center, so Lock-- and the audience-- can watch the faces contort in pain as the APUs are torn apart by the sentinels?

Maybe they were going for a "getto-futuristic" look for the APUs.

[Sidewinder]

The Wachowski brothers are clearly otaku, so... why the fuck don't they just paint Mifune's APU red, like Char Aznable's? Why don't they borrow an idea from 'Aliens' and have every pilot's face on a monitor in some command center, so Lock-- and the audience-- can watch the faces contort in pain as the APUs are torn apart by the sentinels?

Maybe they were going for a "getto-futuristic" look for the APUs. :lol:[/quote]
If they wanted the APUs to look ghetto, they could put chrome on the guns, hang a mirror ball over the head, and paint flames on the armor.

[Azazal]

Why do I have a Guissness Commercial conversation running through my head now?

"To make movie viewing easier, we shall remove a character shield"
"Really, how?"
"Instead of painting the main character's mechs, we'll remove their armor. Thus allowing the audience to see their face."
"Won't that leave the character exposed to attack?"
"Yes, but we can then milk their death for pathos."
"Brilliant!"

The Wachowski brothers are clearly otaku, so... why the fuck don't they just paint Mifune's APU red, like Char Aznable's? Why don't they borrow an idea from 'Aliens' and have every pilot's face on a monitor in some command center, so Lock-- and the audience-- can watch the faces contort in pain as the APUs are torn apart by the sentinels?

Maybe they were going for a "getto-futuristic" look for the APUs.

Pimp my mecha.

Yo dog, check out the rims on my sweet walker, under body neon camo-lighting, and the base is more lethal then the cannons.

[Rekkon]

Pimp my mecha.

Yo dog, check out the rims on my sweet walker, under body neon camo-lighting, and the base is more lethal then the cannons.

Coop already did that with Megas, quiaff?

[Darth Wong]

Wow, a Matrix apologist. I thought they all went into hiding when they realized that nobody but hardcore fanboys could stand the third Matrix film, never mind actually liking it.

[Baal]

Wow, a Matrix apologist. I thought they all went into hiding when they realized that nobody but hardcore fanboys could stand the third Matrix film, never mind actually liking it.

Not at an apologist at all. Just enjoy trying to create some sort of in-universe explanation when a movie does something stupid.

As to a former point I made. You cannot just bolt armor onto a mech. IT had two legs. It must maintain balance. It is not a car sitting on 4 wheels that evenly distribute the weight. To add weight two something with a base like a mech you have to make it balance just right or the mech will just topple over assuming it can even move with the extra weight.

Also I said we dont know if they were ever used in combat and I stand by that. Sure they were intended for combat but for all we know the machines never attacked Zion before so we do not know if the mechs have ever been tried in combat before. For all we know the mechs have only ever been used in the final battle of each iteration of Zion. One battle that they lose repeated six times before the time frame of the last movie.

[Darth Wong]

Wow, a Matrix apologist. I thought they all went into hiding when they realized that nobody but hardcore fanboys could stand the third Matrix film, never mind actually liking it.

Not at an apologist at all. Just enjoy trying to create some sort of in-universe explanation when a movie does something stupid.

Well, you're tilting at windmills then.

As to a former point I made. You cannot just bolt armor onto a mech. IT had two legs. It must maintain balance. It is not a car sitting on 4 wheels that evenly distribute the weight. To add weight two something with a base like a mech you have to make it balance just right or the mech will just topple over assuming it can even move with the extra weight.

Nonsense. The mech has onboard control logic for balancing itself, as we saw when they walked around and moved their arms. It's obviously based on negative feedback, so it should be able to compensate for a change in the centre of gravity of the torso. You make it sound like it's a game of Jenga.