Who could beat pre-crisis uber superman?

[Praxis]

And when did he show the ability to do that?

After Peter removed the symbiont, it immediately bonded with Eddie Brock.

And while I haven't seen them, I am aware of comics where Venom took control of the Silver Surfur and Scorpion.

Secondly...I know nothing about the X-Men, but someone was telling me about a character that could copy the powers of her opponents?

It's rogue, she drains powers by touch at a limited rate, doing this on some very powerful can stun her ditto against somebody with a strong psyche/personality, also recently she gained the ability to mimick powers from everyone she's drained to a limited degree but she doesn't have the durability to survive a full punch from even currebt Superman.

Ah. Forget that then.

[The Grim Squeaker]

Death, don't forget that current Superman is approaching pre crisis levels. Byrne's revision was short lived.

Sundipped Supes can move the earth and base can destroy moons in a few punches and he can reach near C speeds and isn't as fast as the Flash in a race (without F going all out or stealing Speed), he's powerful but not near the wanktastic heights of beating entropy and re-iginting (if not absorbing) neutron stars.

[Mobius]

I think i'd also signed for the last Metabaron (No-name):

For those unfamiliar with the Jodoro-verse: the Metabaron is the Mercenary for the Imperoratiz Janus-Jana (siamese couple ruling the galaxy), he is also a gate to an other universe via the absorption of Gangez the Mythical Bird of the Universe "Which to human scale make him as a god"(Metabarons Universe p.85)

It's state in the Metabarons universe book as well in the Incal and in the first tome of Metabaron's Caste that no one match him. (to set the universe level: The Empire is Half god being with an army of WH40k Space marines like, and ability to BDZ a planet on 16 min (Metabarons Universe p.81) and is stated as routine operation: (the first metabaron kills a 1000 of them with a knife (and was the weakest of all), the other factions include the Technochurch with their own half god and other technobbaling weapons for exemple.

So getting back to No-name: he beats his Father/mother Aghora, who destroyed a whole universe and as less than a day child destroyed a demi-God of the Neo Shabda-Oud trying to make a coup.

At the end of the Incal cycle, he is supposed to be some kind of Uber entity in another dimension, recreating an alternate human universe.

[Molyneux]

Two suggestions.
Firstly, Venom (or Carnage) vs Superman.

Before you call me insane, remember that the Venom symbiont can attack from Eddie Brock, and attach to Superman and take control. Poor Eddie gets squished.

And when did he show the ability to do that?

Secondly...I know nothing about the X-Men, but someone was telling me about a character that could copy the powers of her opponents?

It's rogue, she drains powers by touch at a limited rate, doing this on some very powerful can stun her ditto against somebody with a strong psyche/personality, also recently she gained the ability to mimick powers from everyone she's drained to a limited degree but she doesn't have the durability to survive a full punch from even currebt Superman.

In "Spidergirl", IIRC, the Venom symbiote forcibly bonded itself to Peter Parker against his will.

Rogue might not be able to take out Superman, but depending on whether Superman's power would count as 'mutant' or not, Synch might have been able to match his power levels (if he could stay close to him).

[ryan8723]

Superman's powers are natural (i.e. all Krytonians would have his powers). The only difference is that his DNA has been modified through genetic engineering to make him the most evolved Kryptonian.

As for someone who could beat pre-crisis Superman, I submit Doomsday at his highest power levels since it really is impossible to beat him the same way twice.

[The Grim Squeaker]

Superman's powers are natural (i.e. all Krytonians would have his powers). The only difference is that his DNA has been modified through genetic engineering to make him the most evolved Kryptonian.

He was only modified by Jor-el to be able to survive off planet, how is this relevant?

As for someone who could beat pre-crisis Superman, I submit Doomsday at his highest power levels since it really is impossible to beat him the same way twice.

Except trapping him at the end/beggining of time is a proven method of neutralizing him, and raw physical force does work as do other atacks, he simply becomes slightly more resistant each time he "dies".

[Eleas]

Superman's powers are natural (i.e. all Krytonians would have his powers). The only difference is that his DNA has been modified through genetic engineering to make him the most evolved Kryptonian.

The "most evolved"? What is this, a race to see how many laws of logic and reason DC can break in one sitting?

[Superman]

Superman's powers are natural (i.e. all Krytonians would have his powers). The only difference is that his DNA has been modified through genetic engineering to make him the most evolved Kryptonian.

The "most evolved"? What is this, a race to see how many laws of logic and reason DC can break in one sitting?

What is this guy talking about? Most "evolved?"

[The Grim Squeaker]

Superman's powers are natural (i.e. all Krytonians would have his powers). The only difference is that his DNA has been modified through genetic engineering to make him the most evolved Kryptonian.

The "most evolved"? What is this, a race to see how many laws of logic and reason DC can break in one sitting?

What is this guy talking about? Most "evolved?"

I think he means the fact that Kryptonians had a genetic flaw preventing them from leaving their planet, Jor-El genetically engineered Superman to be perfectly healthy and to cure him of the genetic flaw so that he could leave Krypton.

[Molyneux]

Superman's powers are natural (i.e. all Krytonians would have his powers). The only difference is that his DNA has been modified through genetic engineering to make him the most evolved Kryptonian.

He was only modified by Jor-el to be able to survive off planet, how is this relevant?

I think he was replying to my suggestion that Synch (from Generation X) go up against him. It's debatable whether or not Everett would be able to link up, though.

[Peregrin Toker]

(the first metabaron kills a 1000 of them with a knife (and was the weakest of all)

That was the old Black Endoguard. The Purple Endoguard, which replaced the Black Endoguard, is much more über - it is IIRC said in Incal that each trooper of the Purple Endoguard has the same fighting skills as the Metabaron, but not the Metabaron's psychic abilities. (which are what makes him so godlike)

At the end of the Incal cycle, he is supposed to be some kind of Uber entity in another dimension, recreating an alternate human universe.

I thought that was John Difool who was thrown into an alternate timeline by Orh?

Or did that happen to the Metabaron too? (After all, I have not read The Dreamshifters) If it did, the Metabaron and John must have been thrown into different alternate universes since the Metabaron was nowhere to be seen in Aprés L'Incal...

[Mobius]

Well we know that the Metabaron is off chart for the Technochurch mercenary scale (even though i don't know where the Purple Endoguard stands on this scale).

the power of the Metabarons come also from his weaponry, The Metanef with his Tri-H torpedoes and other fancy things like the Meta Bunker and so on are stated to be uber-uber-things in that universe.

So the end of the Incal i maybe not understanding Jodo vision (i didn't read the Incal under LSD ) but so we've got that old Orh this golden entity which could be assimilated to God then the Incal disappeared and we've got a baby, so a new Orh or whatever is it: the last image of the Incal is No-name, Kill Dog-headed, the Difool's son and the 2 girls (i'm too lazy to find their names) in Incal command center.

I'm not up to date with After The Incal so i dunno if the Metabaron show up there....but at the Beginning of the Cast of the Metabarons 6 about Dona Vincenta, No Name goes back in the Endocity where the Metabunker is located in order to destroy it (as well as Tonto and Lothar) to avoid that his enemies in the universe where he lives now, know his only weakness (so unlike john difool if he is sent in an alternate time-line he remembers of before).

[Praxis]

Two suggestions.
Firstly, Venom (or Carnage) vs Superman.

Before you call me insane, remember that the Venom symbiont can attack from Eddie Brock, and attach to Superman and take control. Poor Eddie gets squished.

And when did he show the ability to do that?

Secondly...I know nothing about the X-Men, but someone was telling me about a character that could copy the powers of her opponents?

It's rogue, she drains powers by touch at a limited rate, doing this on some very powerful can stun her ditto against somebody with a strong psyche/personality, also recently she gained the ability to mimick powers from everyone she's drained to a limited degree but she doesn't have the durability to survive a full punch from even currebt Superman.

In "Spidergirl", IIRC, the Venom symbiote forcibly bonded itself to Peter Parker against his will.

Rogue might not be able to take out Superman, but depending on whether Superman's power would count as 'mutant' or not, Synch might have been able to match his power levels (if he could stay close to him).

Ah yes, I saw that at a bookstore the other day and read it out of curiosity.

Yeah, it does.

[ryan8723]

When I say most evolved Kryptonian, I am referring to the fact that Superman's physiology is more advanced than any other Kryptonian (this explains why he is more powerful than Daxamites, who are supposedly more powerful than Kryptonians).

Doomsday probably could beat pre-crisis Superman after an losing once or twice. Pre-crisis Superman never faced anyone of Doomsday calibre, who IMO is the most powerful non-cosmic Superman has ever faced.

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

Doomsday probably could beat pre-crisis Superman after an losing once or twice. Pre-crisis Superman never faced anyone of Doomsday calibre, who IMO is the most powerful non-cosmic Superman has ever faced.

What's to stop Supes from kicking him into orbit and throwing him into the sun? (Of course, I don't know what stopped post crisis Superman from doing that, but I guess we're assuming he uses his brain during the fight)

[Enigma]

Doomsday probably could beat pre-crisis Superman after an losing once or twice. Pre-crisis Superman never faced anyone of Doomsday calibre, who IMO is the most powerful non-cosmic Superman has ever faced.

What's to stop Supes from kicking him into orbit and throwing him into the sun? (Of course, I don't know what stopped post crisis Superman from doing that, but I guess we're assuming he uses his brain during the fight)

Maybe what would stop him is that Doomsday would probably wouldn't budge?

[Stark]

Doomsday might be invincible, but he's on foot. He punches things. Who's fault is it that DoS was infected with stupid? Not mine.

[Praxis]

Secondly...I know nothing about the X-Men, but someone was telling me about a character that could copy the powers of her opponents?

It's rogue, she drains powers by touch at a limited rate, doing this on some very powerful can stun her ditto against somebody with a strong psyche/personality, also recently she gained the ability to mimick powers from everyone she's drained to a limited degree but she doesn't have the durability to survive a full punch from even currebt Superman.

I told him what you said about Rogue, he claims that the moment Superman hits Rogue she'll drain his powers, thus having his strength and being able to take the punch, and then punch him back.

[Praxis]

Remember that I am not familiar with the X-men, so if the above comment is ridiculous, then don't laugh at me.

[Gandalf]

I told him what you said about Rogue, he claims that the moment Superman hits Rogue she'll drain his powers, thus having his strength and being able to take the punch, and then punch him back.

Doesn't it take a second for Rogue's power drain to take effect?

[The Grim Squeaker]

I told him what you said about Rogue, he claims that the moment Superman hits Rogue she'll drain his powers, thus having his strength and being able to take the punch, and then punch him back.

Doesn't it take a second for Rogue's power drain to take effect?

I think it starts working nearly instantaneously, but the effect is gradual, even when draining Juggernaught he was able to slap her away before draining him badly (and this was when her base form had super strength and toughness).
It's been shown many times that her powers drain away gradually and that the drained can shrug her off if strong enough, or that she can be overwhelmed by the victims psyche (magneto, juggernaught etc...), Superman has a very strong mind and an uber powerful psyche, by the time she drained him enough for her hits to affect him he could swat her into a greasy smear many times over.

[Enigma]

I told him what you said about Rogue, he claims that the moment Superman hits Rogue she'll drain his powers, thus having his strength and being able to take the punch, and then punch him back.

Doesn't it take a second for Rogue's power drain to take effect?

I think it starts working nearly instantaneously, but the effect is gradual, even when draining Juggernaught he was able to slap her away before draining him badly (and this was when her base form had super strength and toughness).
It's been shown many times that her powers drain away gradually and that the drained can shrug her off if strong enough, or that she can be overwhelmed by the victims psyche (magneto, juggernaught etc...), Superman has a very strong mind and an uber powerful psyche, by the time she drained him enough for her hits to affect him he could swat her into a greasy smear many times over.

I am still looking for this comic but there was a fight between Superman and the X-men (I think Pre-Crisis). The X-men thought Supes was a bad guy and fought him. But they lost big time and then *realized* he's not a bad guy after all.

[Molyneux]

Doomsday probably could beat pre-crisis Superman after an losing once or twice. Pre-crisis Superman never faced anyone of Doomsday calibre, who IMO is the most powerful non-cosmic Superman has ever faced.

What's to stop Supes from kicking him into orbit and throwing him into the sun? (Of course, I don't know what stopped post crisis Superman from doing that, but I guess we're assuming he uses his brain during the fight)

Maybe what would stop him is that Doomsday would probably wouldn't budge?

Doomsday's got to weigh, what, a few tons tops?

[Publius]

Although there are probably a number of cosmic or celestial beings with sufficient power to defeat Superman -- one considers for example the Living Tribunal, the Spectre, the Beyonder, Parallax, the Anti-Monitor, or any being carrying the Infinity Gauntlet -- it is really rather a cheat to say so (how is having an otherdimensional being alter reality to erase Superman from existence more sportsmanlike than simply editing time so as to prevent his birth?).

Has anyone given much thought to the Mule? Superman's emotions and sense of ethics have always been a major part of his character, and he might therefore be vulnerable to the Mule's mentalic influence. Might not the Mule be able to adjust the Man of Tomorrow's "emotional dial" and make a Convert of him?

[Praxis]

Alright, I saw X-Men 2 yesterday, my first exposure to X-Men.

Yeah, definitely no way. All Superman has to do is pick up a car, fly over her head, and SMASH.

Alternatively; heat vision.