Who could beat pre-crisis uber superman?

The Grim Squeaker · Post by **The Grim Squeaker** » 2005-09-13 12:09am

Who could beat pre-crisis silver age superman? (At his maximum, except for the sword of superman=g-d), No time travel by either side.

Lets see, King Supreme "is" silver age super supes, and Mr.mxtzplyk, Lucifer could do it due to operating on a whole different level as could his brother, also A planet full of OA guardians might do it if they have time to react.

Adrian Laguna · Post by **Adrian Laguna** » 2005-09-13 12:33am

Just how tough and fast is this guy? Flash can punch someone in the balls a zillion times per second. If Supes can't take/dodge that, he is probably screwed. However I've heard silver age supes being described as: "Eating stars and shitting planets" which, despite being clearly hyperbole, hints at incredibly powerful abilities.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2005-09-13 12:59am

Just how tough and fast is this guy? Flash can punch someone in the balls a zillion times per second. If Supes can't take/dodge that, he is probably screwed.

Pre-Crisis Supes laughs at Flash and the Speed Force. Flash can go a few times c, if I recall, but pre-crisis supes makes that seem like less than a crawl.

Pretty much anything one superhero can do, pre-Crisis Supes can do better. And that's increasingly the mentality about the character with the current regime.

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2005-09-13 01:46am

Joe wrote:
Just how tough and fast is this guy? Flash can punch someone in the balls a zillion times per second. If Supes can't take/dodge that, he is probably screwed.
Pre-Crisis Supes laughs at Flash and the Speed Force. Flash can go a few times c, if I recall, but pre-crisis supes makes that seem like less than a crawl.

Pretty much anything one superhero can do, pre-Crisis Supes can do better. And that's increasingly the mentality about the character with the current regime.

Pre crisis Superman beat Flash in their annual races around the world more than a few times, and that's just his running speed. He flies MUCH faster than he runs.

And let's not forget that pre crisis Supes had super ventriloquism. Heh, good luck findind a character to beat that...

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2005-09-13 01:50am

Just to give an idea how invulnerable he was, in a crossover he stood in place with his hands on his hips while the Hulk beat punched him in the chest repeatedly. Hulk finally gave up.

Ford Prefect · Post by **Ford Prefect** » 2005-09-13 02:41am

Well, I was going to suggest the Juggernaut, but no, I don't think that'll cut it.

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2005-09-13 02:42am

I think someone on this forum described the current Metabaron as having a power level similar to a more focused Silver Age Superman, but being rather unfamiliar with Silver Age DC comics (despite probably being the board's resident expert on everything Metabaron-related).

Hmm... how would Akira do against Supes?

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2005-09-13 02:42am

Ford Prefect wrote:Well, I was going to suggest the Juggernaut, but no, I don't think that'll cut it.

Juggernaut wouldn't beat the current Superman. Forget about pre crisis Supes... BTW, the two did encounter one another the original DC vs Marvel. Superman popped Juggie in the head, but we didn't see what happened next.

Ford Prefect · Post by **Ford Prefect** » 2005-09-13 02:48am

Superman wrote:
Ford Prefect wrote:Well, I was going to suggest the Juggernaut, but no, I don't think that'll cut it.
Juggernaut wouldn't beat the current Superman. Forget about pre crisis Supes... BTW, the two did encounter one another the original DC vs Marvel. Superman popped Juggie in the head, but we didn't see what happened next.

Yes, it always happens like that, doesn't it. God damn Superman - no offense.

As for Akira Per, he hasn't got a chance in the world. After all, Kaneda was taking him on with a fancy motorbike and laser. Though Kaneda was pretty good himself.

Post by **fgalkin** » 2005-09-13 03:15am

If anyone could do it, it'd be the Shrike. Although time travel is ruled out by the OP, time manipulation is not.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2005-09-13 03:27am

Ford Prefect wrote:
Superman wrote:
Ford Prefect wrote:Well, I was going to suggest the Juggernaut, but no, I don't think that'll cut it.
Juggernaut wouldn't beat the current Superman. Forget about pre crisis Supes... BTW, the two did encounter one another the original DC vs Marvel. Superman popped Juggie in the head, but we didn't see what happened next.
Yes, it always happens like that, doesn't it. God damn Superman - no offense.

As for Akira Per, he hasn't got a chance in the world. After all, Kaneda was taking him on with a fancy motorbike and laser. Though Kaneda was pretty good himself.

To be fair, this happened with many of the DC/Marvel fights. Supes and Juggy was just one of them.

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2005-09-13 03:27am

Oh, Thanos and Darkseid was another one that wasn't settled.

Anomie · Post by **Anomie** » 2005-09-13 03:34am

The only SilverAge guys I can think of that could probably beat the GoldenAge Superman in a straight up fight are Hal Jordan when he became Parallax, Kyle Raynor when he became Ion, and the Specter (either Jim or Hal). I don't think that even any of the New Gods could take on GoldenAge Superman

And I'm not sure when he arrived on the comic scene or what his powers were if he's from pre-crisis, but the Martian Manhunter currently is actually supposed to be more powerful than the current Superman, so I'll leave that one in the air.

ryan8723 · Post by **ryan8723** » 2005-09-13 03:47am

An example of pre-crisis Superman ridiculous powerlevel was when he sneezed and blew out a star in another solar system. Another example is that he could travel across the known universe in a matter of minutes or so and then he could travel so fast he could travel through time.

The funny thing is, as powerful as pre-crisis Superman is he is absolutely nothing compared to Superman Prime (basically the original Superman lived far into the future and became Superman Prime) who is more or less 2nd ONLY to God in the 853rd century. An example of his power is that he literally tore down the gates of Heaven. His powers far exceed those of normal post-crisis Superman (he can manipulate matter in any way he pleases, he can resurrect the dead, he literally is the source of every superheroes' power and he is more powerful than 5th dimensional beings).

So apparently post-crisis Superman ends up being more powerful than pre-crisis Superman, which is hilariously ironic since one of the main reason for the crisis was to power down Superman.

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2005-09-13 03:48am

Anomie wrote:The only SilverAge guys I can think of that could probably beat the GoldenAge Superman in a straight up fight are Hal Jordan when he became Parallax, Kyle Raynor when he became Ion, and the Specter (either Jim or Hal). I don't think that even any of the New Gods could take on GoldenAge Superman

And I'm not sure when he arrived on the comic scene or what his powers were if he's from pre-crisis, but the Martian Manhunter currently is actually supposed to be more powerful than the current Superman, so I'll leave that one in the air.

Martian Manhunter, in many ways, is THE most powerul being in the DC universe. Part of it, though, is being well rounded and "super" in lots of different areas. He can shape shift, phase, he has mental abilities that would rival professor X, as well as typical Superman-esque powers. His base levels though as still a bit under those of Superman's, sort of like how Captain Marvel's are (even though he's magic and Supes is vulnerable to that).

Here's the thing though, if Superman went head to head with Martian Manhunter and didn't hold back from the start, I don't think MM would fare very well. If MM could get the jump on him, then maybe yes... but in a head to head fight, with Supes not holding back, MM would probably get beaten somewhat quickly... especially if Supes went in with heat vision at full strength.

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2005-09-13 03:53am

By the way, pre crises Mon El might stand a chance... Having a vulnerability to lead is kind of stupid though, since Supes could literally throw a bullet at superspeed into him and kill him.

Anomie · Post by **Anomie** » 2005-09-13 04:12am

ryan8723 wrote:The funny thing is, as powerful as pre-crisis Superman is he is absolutely nothing compared to Superman Prime (basically the original Superman lived far into the future and became Superman Prime) who is more or less 2nd ONLY to God in the 853rd century. An example of his power is that he literally tore down the gates of Heaven. His powers far exceed those of normal post-crisis Superman (he can manipulate matter in any way he pleases, he can resurrect the dead, he literally is the source of every superheroes' power and he is more powerful than 5th dimensional beings).

So apparently post-crisis Superman ends up being more powerful than pre-crisis Superman, which is hilariously ironic since one of the main reason for the crisis was to power down Superman.

The only problem with that is that, like MM said at the end of DC One Million, it is only a possible future, the Superman that is in the current DCU may not end up like that.

And he's the reason why the Superman Dynasty is so Uberly strong, not the sole reason that they have their powers.

he can manipulate matter in any way he pleases, he can resurrect the dead, he literally is the source of every superheroes' power and he is more powerful than 5th dimensional beings

Those are kind of the reasons that I went with the guys I did. Parallax and presumably Ion, since he is supposed to be as powerful if not more so, can do those things, and the Specter is so feared by God that he closed the Gates of Heaven during the Day of Judgement arc.

mr friendly guy · Post by **mr friendly guy** » 2005-09-13 06:32am

The composite superman.

The guy who through some act of plot had the same powers as the Legion of superheroes, who defeated pre-crisis superman by using Element Lad's power of matter manipulation and creating kryptonite.

Molyneux · Post by **Molyneux** » 2005-09-13 07:19am

Superman wrote:
Anomie wrote:The only SilverAge guys I can think of that could probably beat the GoldenAge Superman in a straight up fight are Hal Jordan when he became Parallax, Kyle Raynor when he became Ion, and the Specter (either Jim or Hal). I don't think that even any of the New Gods could take on GoldenAge Superman

And I'm not sure when he arrived on the comic scene or what his powers were if he's from pre-crisis, but the Martian Manhunter currently is actually supposed to be more powerful than the current Superman, so I'll leave that one in the air.
Martian Manhunter, in many ways, is THE most powerul being in the DC universe. Part of it, though, is being well rounded and "super" in lots of different areas. He can shape shift, phase, he has mental abilities that would rival professor X, as well as typical Superman-esque powers. His base levels though as still a bit under those of Superman's, sort of like how Captain Marvel's are (even though he's magic and Supes is vulnerable to that).

Here's the thing though, if Superman went head to head with Martian Manhunter and didn't hold back from the start, I don't think MM would fare very well. If MM could get the jump on him, then maybe yes... but in a head to head fight, with Supes not holding back, MM would probably get beaten somewhat quickly... especially if Supes went in with heat vision at full strength.

In "Trial By Fire", Fernus the Burning pretty much took out the Justice League without breaking a sweat. Fernus is no more powerful than J'onn, save for not sharing his weakness to "psychically significant" fire (MM managed to partially beat his only weakness, apparently), and having absolutely no pesky morals holding him back.

MM might not be able to take out Pre-Crisis Superman physically, but unless the original Big Blue has enhanced resistance to telepathy sufficient to protect him from J'onn, he's toast. Very, very dead toast.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2005-09-13 07:21am

Aside from Green K, Pre Crisis Superman was writer's intent.

So unless you're the writer, he pretty much won. And taking away his time powers is a cheap cop out since that is pretty much one of the BS abilities. I mean seriously next time ask what can defeat him , since the powers werea lesser used component versus his strength that could affect practically galaxies.

Solauren · Post by **Solauren** » 2005-09-13 07:32am

What about a powerful Sorcerer like Morgan Le Fey?

I mean, she called Martian Manhunter's telepathic abilities 'amueter at best'

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2005-09-13 07:37am

Solauren wrote:What about a powerful Sorcerer like Morgan Le Fey?

I mean, she called Martian Manhunter's telepathic abilities 'amueter at best'

This is the same being who regularly took on Silver Age Brainac who was pretty much "I can mind control the world, and make Lois tell everyone in the galaxy your identity....but can't enter your super Kryptonian brain!!!!".

Seriously looking for regular avenues against the height of Silver Age silliness, is weird at best.

As for time power...the man punched holes into the universe and time. Let's not really try to wrap one's head what the fuck that means.

Enigma · Post by **Enigma** » 2005-09-13 07:44am

Make it fun, give Pre-Crisis Supes his sword.

lol

18-Till-I-Die · Post by **18-Till-I-Die** » 2005-09-13 08:16am

I'd guess you'd want to call out the big guns to deal with Pre-Crisis Supes.

I'm thinking Celestials, the Spectre, Living Tribunal...

Those are the ones that always seem to be the best contenders, when the question of who can take on Pre-Crisis Superman comes up.

I also read on another board, that Mr. Majestic from WildC.A.Ts was about the same level of power (surviving stars, uber-hyper-speed, moving planets, etc) and also had teh extra advantage of super-human intelligence, so he might be able to do it too.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2005-09-13 08:38am

18-Till-I-Die wrote:I'd guess you'd want to call out the big guns to deal with Pre-Crisis Supes.

I'm thinking Celestials, the Spectre, Living Tribunal...

Those are the ones that always seem to be the best contenders, when the question of who can take on Pre-Crisis Superman comes up.

None of them punch holes in Time, and their trick would be the same as Composite Superman's. Create Kryptonite.

Technically anyone who can create the substance has a chance of winning, because while immensely powerful, he was a dumb as a boulder.

I also read on another board, that Mr. Majestic from WildC.A.Ts was about the same level of power (surviving stars, uber-hyper-speed, moving planets, etc) and also had teh extra advantage of super-human intelligence, so he might be able to do it too.

They did. Majestic stalemates with Current Superman, he lays down like a three dollar whore against Silver Age.

Though the distinction does lie there...since Pre-Crisis can refer to the 1970-80 era Superman who was nowhere near the wank of 1950-60 Superman.