Corruption - the problem of Europe

N&P: Discuss governments, nations, politics and recent related news here.

Moderators: Alyrium Denryle, Edi, K. A. Pital

Post Reply
User avatar
Thanas
Magister
Magister
Posts: 30779
Joined: 2004-06-26 07:49pm

Corruption - the problem of Europe

Post by Thanas »

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26014387

The extent of corruption in Europe is "breathtaking" and it costs the EU economy at least 120bn euros (£99bn) annually, the European Commission says.

EU Home Affairs Commissioner Cecilia Malmstroem has presented a full report on the problem.

She said the true cost of corruption was "probably much higher" than 120bn.

Three-quarters of Europeans surveyed for the Commission study said that corruption was widespread, and more than half said the level had increased.

"The extent of the problem in Europe is breathtaking, although Sweden is among the countries with the least problems," Ms Malmstroem wrote in Sweden's Goeteborgs-Posten daily.

The cost to the EU economy is equivalent to the bloc's annual budget.

For the report the Commission studied corruption in all 28 EU member states. The Commission says it is the first time it has done such a survey.
Bribery widespread

In the UK only five people out of 1,115 - less than 1% - said they had been expected to pay a bribe. It was "the best result in all Europe", the report said.

But 64% of British respondents said they believed corruption to be widespread in the UK, while the EU average was 74% on that question.

In some countries there was a relatively high number reporting personal experience of bribery.

In Croatia, the Czech Republic, Lithuania, Bulgaria, Romania and Greece, between 6% and 29% of respondents said they had been asked for a bribe, or had been expected to pay one, in the past 12 months.

There were also high levels of bribery in Poland (15%), Slovakia (14%) and Hungary (13%), where the most prevalent instances were in healthcare.

Ms Malmstroem said corruption was eroding trust in democracy and draining resources from the legal economy.

"The political commitment to really root out corruption seems to be missing," she complained.

National governments, rather than EU institutions, are chiefly responsible for fighting corruption in the EU.

But Ms Malmstroem said national governments and the European Parliament had asked the Commission to carry out the EU-wide study. The Commission drafts EU laws and enforces compliance with EU treaties.

The EU has an anti-fraud agency, Olaf, which focuses on fraud and corruption affecting the EU budget, but it has limited resources. In 2011 its budget was just 23.5m euros.

The Commission highlighted that:

Public procurement (public bodies buying goods and services) forms about one-fifth of the EU's total output (GDP) and is vulnerable to corruption, so better controls and integrity standards are needed
Corruption risks are generally greater at local and regional level
Many shortcomings remain in financing of political parties - often codes of conduct are not tough enough
Often the existing rules on conflicts of interest are inadequately enforced
The quality of corruption investigations varies widely across the EU

Swedish model

The EU study includes two major opinion polls by Eurobarometer, the Commission's polling service.

Four out of 10 of the businesses surveyed described corruption as an obstacle to doing business in Europe.

Sweden "is undoubtedly one of the countries with the least problems with corruption, and other EU countries should learn from Sweden's solutions for dealing with the problem", Ms Malmstroem said, pointing to the role of laws on transparency and openness.

Organised crime groups have sophisticated networks across Europe and the EU police agency Europol says there are at least 3,000 of them.

Bulgaria, Romania and Italy are particular hotspots for organised crime gangs in the EU, but white-collar crimes like bribery and VAT (sales tax) fraud plague many EU countries.

Last year Europol director Rob Wainwright said VAT fraud in the carbon credits market had cost the EU about 5bn euros.
Image

That the eastern countries have such problems is to be expected, considering their history and development.

That the south has not gotten it together is more than disappointing.
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------
My LPs
User avatar
Zaune
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7469
Joined: 2010-06-21 11:05am
Location: In Transit
Contact:

Re: Corruption - the problem of Europe

Post by Zaune »

In the UK only five people out of 1,115 - less than 1% - said they had been expected to pay a bribe. It was "the best result in all Europe", the report said.
That doesn't necessarily mean our government is less corrupt, mind you. We're just better at not getting caught. Look at the Cash for Honours scandal; huge investigation, search warrants served on offices in the Houses of Parliament, the Prime Minister named ass a person of interest to likely be cross-examined on oath... no convictions because there wasn't enough hard evidence.
There are hardly any excesses of the most crazed psychopath that cannot easily be duplicated by a normal kindly family man who just comes in to work every day and has a job to do.
-- (Terry Pratchett, Small Gods)


Replace "ginger" with "n*gger," and suddenly it become a lot less funny, doesn't it?
-- fgalkin


Like my writing? Tip me on Patreon

I Have A Blog
User avatar
Tiriol
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2037
Joined: 2005-09-15 11:31am
Location: Helsinki, Finland

Re: Corruption - the problem of Europe

Post by Tiriol »

Finland tends to come at the top of lists of corruption-free countries lists, but there were complaints about our system as well: not so much in the lower echelons of society, but more in upper levels. Big business, important politicians, high officials and so on engage in Good Ol' Boys networking all too much according to the report, and it's damn, if not impossibly, hard for officials responsible for keeping a tab on political parties to make sure that their funding is all above board and legit. It actually might be legit, for all we know, but because the system doesn't let the officials to investigate it, it leaves a bad aftertaste and a permanent suspicion as well.
Confiteor Deo omnipotenti; beatae Mariae semper Virgini; beato Michaeli Archangelo; sanctis Apostolis, omnibus sanctis... Tibit Pater, quia peccavi nimis, cogitatione, verbo et opere, mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa! Kyrie Eleison!

The Imperial Senate (defunct) * Knights Astrum Clades * The Mess
User avatar
Crossroads Inc.
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 9233
Joined: 2005-03-20 06:26pm
Location: Defending Sparkeling Bishonen
Contact:

Re: Corruption - the problem of Europe

Post by Crossroads Inc. »

I find it interesting that those countries with the most corruption , Spain, Greece, Italy. Are also those countries with the most economic problems. Go figure
Praying is another way of doing nothing helpful
"Congratulations, you get a cookie. You almost got a fundamental English word correct." Pick
"Outlaw star has spaceships that punch eachother" Joviwan
Read "Tales From The Crossroads"!
Read "One Wrong Turn"!
User avatar
Eternal_Freedom
Castellan
Posts: 10377
Joined: 2010-03-09 02:16pm
Location: CIC, Battlestar Temeraire

Re: Corruption - the problem of Europe

Post by Eternal_Freedom »

Is it really surprising that there's little political will to stop such corruption when politicians stand to gain from it?
Baltar: "I don't want to miss a moment of the last Battlestar's destruction!"
Centurion: "Sir, I really think you should look at the other Battlestar."
Baltar: "What are you babbling about other...it's impossible!"
Centurion: "No. It is a Battlestar."

Corrax Entry 7:17: So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again.
User avatar
Thanas
Magister
Magister
Posts: 30779
Joined: 2004-06-26 07:49pm

Re: Corruption - the problem of Europe

Post by Thanas »

See Berlusconi.
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------
My LPs
User avatar
K. A. Pital
Glamorous Commie
Posts: 20813
Joined: 2003-02-26 11:39am
Location: Elysium

Re: Corruption - the problem of Europe

Post by K. A. Pital »

South is way more corrupt than the East according to that very map, Thanas. So I'm not sure that Eastern Europe's governance was so corrupt. Seems that going North also improves things for the East just as it does for the West. :lol:
Lì ci sono chiese, macerie, moschee e questure, lì frontiere, prezzi inaccessibile e freddure
Lì paludi, minacce, cecchini coi fucili, documenti, file notturne e clandestini
Qui incontri, lotte, passi sincronizzati, colori, capannelli non autorizzati,
Uccelli migratori, reti, informazioni, piazze di Tutti i like pazze di passioni...

...La tranquillità è importante ma la libertà è tutto!
Assalti Frontali
User avatar
Thanas
Magister
Magister
Posts: 30779
Joined: 2004-06-26 07:49pm

Re: Corruption - the problem of Europe

Post by Thanas »

Stas Bush wrote:South is way more corrupt than the East according to that very map, Thanas. So I'm not sure that Eastern Europe's governance was so corrupt.


I did not blame the east....?
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------
My LPs
User avatar
Kane Starkiller
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1510
Joined: 2005-01-21 01:39pm

Re: Corruption - the problem of Europe

Post by Kane Starkiller »

If there is one good thing about EU is that it is finally pressuring the political cunts in Croatia to start prosecuting corrupt officials. Our former PM currently chilling in the slammer and while too little too late is certainly satisfying.
Even the formerly untouchable former Commie bigwigs are getting prosecuted. Just a few days ago Yugoslav secret police director Josip Perković was extradited to Germany.
How sad that Germany has to pressure Croatia to extradite a suspect for killing one of its own expatriates.
But if the forces of evil should rise again, to cast a shadow on the heart of the city.
Call me. -Batman
User avatar
Irbis
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2262
Joined: 2011-07-15 05:31pm

Re: Corruption - the problem of Europe

Post by Irbis »

Thanas wrote:That the eastern countries have such problems is to be expected, considering their history and development.
Problems. Let's see, the PDF linked in article says % of people who paid a bribe in Germany or France to be around 2%, compared to 1% in Slovakia or Poland (admittedly this is higher in case of healthcare, but that's what you get when one imbecile, populist minister lowered health tax share to lowest in EU and no one dared to raise it back because Evil Communist Taxes, plus farmer privileges, causing permanent underfunding).

Is that map worth anything anyway, or is it yet another example of "Teh CRIME is on the rise!" (despite crime rates being lowest in decades)? Your article names Sweden and UK as top corruption-free countries, yet on map both look much worse than France and Germany.
User avatar
Thanas
Magister
Magister
Posts: 30779
Joined: 2004-06-26 07:49pm

Re: Corruption - the problem of Europe

Post by Thanas »

Sure, the article deals with businesses and the map is apparently from a poll by ordinary people.
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------
My LPs
User avatar
Irbis
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2262
Joined: 2011-07-15 05:31pm

Re: Corruption - the problem of Europe

Post by Irbis »

Thanas wrote:Sure, the article deals with businesses and the map is apparently from a poll by ordinary people.
Well, yes, but aren't such poll maps usually bad in serious discussion on problems? This is also why I am against lay jury system, far too easy to skew with inner bias and ignorance even if well meaning.
User avatar
Vendetta
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 10895
Joined: 2002-07-07 04:57pm
Location: Sheffield, UK

Re: Corruption - the problem of Europe

Post by Vendetta »

Zaune wrote:
In the UK only five people out of 1,115 - less than 1% - said they had been expected to pay a bribe. It was "the best result in all Europe", the report said.
That doesn't necessarily mean our government is less corrupt, mind you. We're just better at not getting caught. Look at the Cash for Honours scandal; huge investigation, search warrants served on offices in the Houses of Parliament, the Prime Minister named ass a person of interest to likely be cross-examined on oath... no convictions because there wasn't enough hard evidence.
No, it just means that our government has realised that ordinary people can't pay large bribes, and that large companies would prefer to pay "campaign donations" than pay taxes.
User avatar
K. A. Pital
Glamorous Commie
Posts: 20813
Joined: 2003-02-26 11:39am
Location: Elysium

Re: Corruption - the problem of Europe

Post by K. A. Pital »

Irbis wrote:
Thanas wrote:Sure, the article deals with businesses and the map is apparently from a poll by ordinary people.
Well, yes, but aren't such poll maps usually bad in serious discussion on problems? This is also why I am against lay jury system, far too easy to skew with inner bias and ignorance even if well meaning.
Are these maps bad or are they perhaps more valuable, since the only way to estimate corruption is to ask the people whether they encounter it? (The officials would never admit to wrongdoing anyway.)
Lì ci sono chiese, macerie, moschee e questure, lì frontiere, prezzi inaccessibile e freddure
Lì paludi, minacce, cecchini coi fucili, documenti, file notturne e clandestini
Qui incontri, lotte, passi sincronizzati, colori, capannelli non autorizzati,
Uccelli migratori, reti, informazioni, piazze di Tutti i like pazze di passioni...

...La tranquillità è importante ma la libertà è tutto!
Assalti Frontali
User avatar
The Guid
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1888
Joined: 2005-04-05 10:22pm
Location: Northamptonshire, UK

Re: Corruption - the problem of Europe

Post by The Guid »

I would be interested to see how language effects things. The term "corruption" to most English speaking people, and how that question is phrased, would mean such things as paying a policeman/doctor/civil servant a bribe. It would not set of associations with the idea of the politician's cronyism. People would probably say they were worse off because of "corruption" in Westminster, but would not necessarily associate it with this question. This might not be the same in other languages/cultures.

I'm not saying this does apply, but it may well be something to consider should anyone find these results surprising. I happen to not, but I don't want to be too guilty of confirmation bias. :angelic:
Self declared winner of The Posedown Thread
EBC - "What? What?" "Tally Ho!" Division
I wrote this:The British Avengers fanfiction

"Yeah, funny how that works - you giving hungry people food they vote for you. You give homeless people shelter they vote for you. You give the unemployed a job they vote for you.

Maybe if the conservative ideology put a roof overhead, food on the table, and employed the downtrodden the poor folk would be all for it, too". - Broomstick
User avatar
madd0ct0r
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 6259
Joined: 2008-03-14 07:47am

Re: Corruption - the problem of Europe

Post by madd0ct0r »

I'm not a fan of those sorts of maps - empty conutries can sway the result.
better version:

Image
"Aid, trade, green technology and peace." - Hans Rosling.
"Welcome to SDN, where we can't see the forest because walking into trees repeatedly feels good, bro." - Mr Coffee
User avatar
Spoonist
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2405
Joined: 2002-09-20 11:15am

Re: Corruption - the problem of Europe

Post by Spoonist »

Stas Bush wrote:
Irbis wrote:
Thanas wrote:Sure, the article deals with businesses and the map is apparently from a poll by ordinary people.
Well, yes, but aren't such poll maps usually bad in serious discussion on problems? This is also why I am against lay jury system, far too easy to skew with inner bias and ignorance even if well meaning.
Are these maps bad or are they perhaps more valuable, since the only way to estimate corruption is to ask the people whether they encounter it? (The officials would never admit to wrongdoing anyway.)
The actual report goes into depth. There are also studies and interviews etc that is quoted in the report. So while the map in itself would be insignificant it adds data on top of what we already have.
Why we are looking at the map at all instead of such things is due to journalism, not the research/report itself.

Another issue with asking people is that a country with a higher public moral would increasingly say that they are affected by corruption. While in other countries because it is considered the norm people don't reflect on being affected by it. (An example from one of the studies contributing to this report is that people usually don't "report" what they consider to be positive corruption - ie when you are not required to bribe the official to get the permit, but you can speed up the process to get it by giving a gift of some kind. Then most people regardless of if they are in fact bribing officials would not report as being affected by corruption.)
This is why the researchers do follow up studies, questions and in depth interviews. This so that we can see specific instances. Hence why this report and the org giving the report gets the impact it does.

To assume that the report is only based on such a loose questionaire and/or such a map as in the article seems very dismissive to me. Especially given who she is critizising and the sums we are talking about.
User avatar
Oskuro
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2698
Joined: 2005-05-25 06:10am
Location: Barcelona, Spain

Re: Corruption - the problem of Europe

Post by Oskuro »

Crossroads Inc. wrote:I find it interesting that those countries with the most corruption , Spain, Greece, Italy. Are also those countries with the most economic problems. Go figure
I'd so wish there was a provable cause/effect relationship there, but from the look of things, what really happens is that, as the economy becomes worse, ordinary people complain more about things that they'd let slide in better times.

That's my experience around Spain, at least. Much of the corruption being investigated today was stuff that "everybody knows" for years, only that without economic pressure people couldn't care less. :(

(I'm not saying that there is or isn't an actual relationship between corruption and economic failure... I believe there is a cause/effect in play there, but I don't know for sure)
unsigned
User avatar
Crossroads Inc.
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 9233
Joined: 2005-03-20 06:26pm
Location: Defending Sparkeling Bishonen
Contact:

Re: Corruption - the problem of Europe

Post by Crossroads Inc. »

Actually that makes a lot if sense.
Corruption does not caus bad economy.
But a terrible economy makes political corruption more common place
Praying is another way of doing nothing helpful
"Congratulations, you get a cookie. You almost got a fundamental English word correct." Pick
"Outlaw star has spaceships that punch eachother" Joviwan
Read "Tales From The Crossroads"!
Read "One Wrong Turn"!
User avatar
Oskuro
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2698
Joined: 2005-05-25 06:10am
Location: Barcelona, Spain

Re: Corruption - the problem of Europe

Post by Oskuro »

Crossroads Inc. wrote:But a terrible economy makes political corruption more common place
I think that too. More precisely, I'm of the opinion that the lack of proper oversight on those with a lot of influence (be it governments or the private sector) , leads naturally and inevitably to corruption.

Can't find the links now, but there are studies that point at "corruptability" being a feature of the human brain, or, in other words, we all have a price. From that revelation should follow that any system based around the notion that some people are truly incorruptible, and thus rather than checks and balances, what we need is to have those people in power, is bound to fail.

But tell that, not to those in power, but to the "unwashed" masses. Its hard to make people accept that we are still pretty much shy monkeys, and thus ultra-liberal ideologies (the market will correct itself, there should be zero goverment regulation, etc...) do easily get traction at every level of society.

But, again, my barely informed opinion.
unsigned
Post Reply